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Author Topic: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)  (Read 12778 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2024, 10:39:11 AM »
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  • So a human being, a creature with far less insight and intelligence than a Fallen Angel, experiences suffering beyond comprehension, while the Fallen laugh and find joy in inflicting the punishment? Sorry, I don’t buy it.

    Yeah, I think I'm right there with you on that.  On top of the fact, that I've never heard of one of these NDE people coming back to convert to the Catholic faith.  They almost all end up being Prots.  Many are divorced / remarried / living in sin, and go to the "happy place" ... and receive no insight or admonition about changing their ways.

    On top of the fact that people could have hallucinated the entire thing ... what's to stop them from just completely making it up out of thin air ... in order to get views on Youtube or even start up some Bible-beating "ministry"?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #16 on: March 09, 2024, 11:20:47 AM »
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  • If this guy is not Catholic, I don't understand why the DB's posted it.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #17 on: March 09, 2024, 11:25:16 AM »
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  • If this guy is not Catholic, I don't understand why the DB's posted it.

    Well, someone doesn't have to be Catholic to genuinely see Hell.  In fact, non-Catholics will see it.  I just question whether these experiences are legitimate in general because none of the many I've seen result in ultimate conversion.  I supposed God could allow it for the benefit of others even if not for the individual who experienced it.

    Offline SaintDominique

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #18 on: March 09, 2024, 06:05:01 PM »
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  • Definitely a must watch video.

    One thing, I always thought that the demons would also be tortured in hell but the evidence seems to suggest otherwise.
    Anyone who is in hell will suffer from not being able to see the Beatific Vision, which is the greatest suffering of all. 

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #19 on: March 09, 2024, 07:17:02 PM »
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  • So a human being, a creature with far less insight and intelligence than a Fallen Angel, experiences suffering beyond comprehension, while the Fallen laugh and find joy in inflicting the punishment? Sorry, I don’t buy it.
    That was perhaps the biggest issue I had with the video and why I mentioned it earlier in the thread. I looked this guy up he has his own 'ministry' and website... He seems presumptuous, a typical protestant mindset. I hope that he be converted :pray:


    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #20 on: March 09, 2024, 09:56:30 PM »
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  • Well, someone doesn't have to be Catholic to genuinely see Hell.  In fact, non-Catholics will see it.  I just question whether these experiences are legitimate in general because none of the many I've seen result in ultimate conversion.  I supposed God could allow it for the benefit of others even if not for the individual who experienced it.
    I think the bolded is pretty spot on, I think it could still work towards this man's salvation but he needs to get out of his prot mindset.  If he did study Catholic stuff on Hell I think he would be trying to be Catholic and not in his false sect.  


    That was perhaps the biggest issue I had with the video and why I mentioned it earlier in the thread. I looked this guy up he has his own 'ministry' and website... He seems presumptuous, a typical protestant mindset. I hope that he be converted :pray:
    I do think it could still be sincere but he saw things in his limited intellect and tried to process it the best he could.  God could have allowed the demons to look like they were having fun torturing people to get the idea across that they are not your friends.  The demons can feel no pleasure or happiness in anything they do.  
      
    What I didn't buy was what he was saying happened to a woman fornicator.  He looked like he had dupers delight telling that story or that he had some weird pleasure in seeing that.   

    But yeah, the man needs prayers, I said a few for him already and maybe he has a known e-mail or something that I (or one of us) can reach out to him more directly.  Wouldn't hurt to try.    

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #21 on: March 09, 2024, 11:23:59 PM »
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  • Anyone who is in hell will suffer from not being able to see the Beatific Vision, which is the greatest suffering of all.

    I’ll have to disagree with you there.  As St. Thomas explains about Limbo, the Beatific Vision is so beyond our natural capacity that we wouldn’t even know what we’re missing.

    Offline SaintDominique

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #22 on: March 09, 2024, 11:36:56 PM »
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  • I’ll have to disagree with you there.  As St. Thomas explains about Limbo, the Beatific Vision is so beyond our natural capacity that we wouldn’t even know what we’re missing.
    First off, there are no demons in Limbo so I don't know what you're on about. The Beatific Vision is when you go to Heaven, you will understand what that is if you go there. BUT. there is no such thing as that in hell. The day that the fallen angels fell means that they lost the Beatific Vision, meaning that they will no longer be able to feel and see the presence of God. And what do you mean we wouldn't know what we are missing? Obviously, on earth we aren't going to understand it, because we only have so much mental capacity, so..?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #23 on: March 10, 2024, 07:26:17 AM »
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  • First off, there are no demons in Limbo so I don't know what you're on about.

    You weren't talking about demons ... just deprivation of the Beatific Vision, which is also the case in Limbo.  Nor did you limit your comments to demons, since you said "Anyone who is in hell ...".  Read St. Thomas on the subject.  If what you meant was that demons in Hell suffer more on account of the deprivation of the Beatific Vision that they USED to have, then you should have written that.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #24 on: March 10, 2024, 08:32:14 AM »
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  • First off, there are no demons in Limbo so I don't know what you're on about. The Beatific Vision is when you go to Heaven, you will understand what that is if you go there. BUT. there is no such thing as that in hell. The day that the fallen angels fell means that they lost the Beatific Vision, meaning that they will no longer be able to feel and see the presence of God. And what do you mean we wouldn't know what we are missing? Obviously, on earth we aren't going to understand it, because we only have so much mental capacity, so..?
    Did the fallen angels ever have the beatific vision? If so how did the willing sin and lose it? And isn't greatest pain in hell is the loss of God which is infinite? Since the damned have lost God by their own actions.

    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #25 on: March 10, 2024, 12:21:59 PM »
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  • Did the fallen angels ever have the beatific vision? If so how did the willing sin and lose it? And isn't greatest pain in hell is the loss of God which is infinite? Since the damned have lost God by their own actions.

    It's my understanding that they never did and that they had a test but 1/3 of them chose to fail it even knowing the consequences and it can never be undone.  Although the battle that thrust them out of Heaven took place in Heaven they wouldn't have had the Beatific Vision until after the trial (considering they passed their trial which 1/3 didn't) and the thrusting of the rebellious angels into Hell. 
     
    And I've also understood that the greatest pain in Hell is the loss of the Beatific Vision.  I'm suspending judgment on how this effects those in outer areas of Hell (commonly called Limbo but that's another discussion altogether) but I lean towards the Augustinian view on it.  


    Offline SaintDominique

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #26 on: March 10, 2024, 03:03:15 PM »
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  • You weren't talking about demons ... just deprivation of the Beatific Vision, which is also the case in Limbo.  Nor did you limit your comments to demons, since you said "Anyone who is in hell ...".  Read St. Thomas on the subject.  If what you meant was that demons in Hell suffer more on account of the deprivation of the Beatific Vision that they USED to have, then you should have written that.
    The whole subject was Anthony talking about if demons suffered, but he said that "the evidence says otherwise" So yeah, anyone that is in Hell will have the pain of losing God, and the Beatific Vision, which is the greatest pain of all. And no, people who are baptized and who are Catholic suffer more than anyone else in Hell. 

    Offline SaintDominique

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #27 on: March 10, 2024, 03:07:53 PM »
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  • Did the fallen angels ever have the beatific vision? If so how did the willing sin and lose it? And isn't greatest pain in hell is the loss of God which is infinite? Since the damned have lost God by their own actions.
    Yeah, that should be a clarification on my part. The greatest pain is losing God, period. But since the angels had more knowledge and understanding, I find it hard to believe that they didn't know at least something about the Beatific Vision. So when you said "the evidence suggests otherwise" That's the first thing that came into my mind, the demons lost God and His presence.

    Offline SaintDominique

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    Re: Man Shot & Saw Hell - Shocking Must-See Video (mhfm)
    « Reply #28 on: March 10, 2024, 03:28:29 PM »
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  • You weren't talking about demons ... just deprivation of the Beatific Vision, which is also the case in Limbo.  Nor did you limit your comments to demons, since you said "Anyone who is in hell ...".  Read St. Thomas on the subject.  If what you meant was that demons in Hell suffer more on account of the deprivation of the Beatific Vision that they USED to have, then you should have written that.
    Sorry my bad, the angels didn't exactly have the Beatific Vision, but it was veiled. After the downfall, it was said that God had revealed even more to the good angels, and that is what caused the demons to be even more enraged.