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Author Topic: Male - Female Misunderstandings  (Read 15131 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Male - Female Misunderstandings
« on: June 22, 2009, 12:04:23 PM »
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  • "Can't We Talk?" (condensed from: You Just Don't Understand)

    by Deborah Tannen

    A married couple was in a car when the wife turned to her husband and asked, "Would you like to stop for a coffee?"

    "No, thanks," he answered truthfully. So they didn't stop.

    The result? The wife, who had indeed wanted to stop, became annoyed because she felt her preference had not been considered. The husband, seeing his wife was angry, became frustrated. Why didn't she just say what she wanted?

    Unfortunately, he failed to see that his wife was asking the question not to get an instant decision, but to begin a negotiation. And the woman didn't realize that when her husband said no, he was just expressing his preference, not making a ruling. When a man and woman interpret the same interchange in such conflicting ways, it's no wonder they can find themselves leveling angry charges of selfishness and obstinacy at each other.

    As a specialist in linguistics, I have studied how the conversational styles of men and women differ. We cannot lump all men or all women into fixed categories. But the seemingly senseless misunderstandings that haunt our relationships can in part be explained by the different conversational rules by which men and women play.

    Whenever I write or speak about this subject, people tell me they are relieved to learn that what has caused them trouble - and what they had previously ascribed to personal failings - is, in fact, very common.

    Learning about the different though equally valid conversational frequencies men and women are tuned to can help banish the blame and help us truly talk to one another. Here are some of the most common areas of conflict:

    Status vs. Support.

    Men grow up in a world in which a conversation is often a contest, either to achieve the upper hand or to prevent other people from pushing them around. For women, however, talking is often a way to exchange confirmation and support.

    I saw this when my husband and I had jobs in different cities. People frequently made comments like, "That must be rough," and "How do you stand it?" I accepted their sympathy and sometimes even reinforced it, saying, "The worst part is having to pack and unpack al the time."

    But my husband often reacted with irritation. Our situation had advantages, he would explain. As academics, we had four-day weekends together, as well as long vacations throughout the year and four months in the summer.

    Everything he said was true, but I didn't understand why he chose to say it. He told me that some of the comments implied: "Yours is not a real marriage. I am superior to you because my wife and I have avoided your misfortune." Until then it had not occurred to me there might be an element of one- upmanship.

    I now see that my husband was simply approaching the world as many men do: as a place where people try to achieve and maintain status. I, on the other hand, was approaching the world as many women do: as a network of connections seeking support and consensus.

    Independence vs. Intimacy.

    Since women often think in terms of closeness and support, they struggle to preserve intimacy. Men, concerned with status, tend to focus more on independence. These traits can lead women and men to starkly different views of the same situation.

    When Josh's old high-school friend called him at work to say he'd be in town, Josh invited him to stay for the weekend. That evening he told Linda they were having a house guest.

    Linda was upset. How could Josh make these plans without discussing them with her beforehand? She would never do that to him. "Why don't you tell your friend you have to check with your wife?" she asked.

    Josh replied, "I can't tell my friend, 'I have to ask my wife for permission'!"

    To Josh, checking with his wife would mean he was not free to act on his own. It would make him feel like a child or an underling. But Linda actually enjoys telling someone, "I have to check with Josh." It makes her feel good to show that her life is intertwined with her husband's.

    Advice vs. Understanding.

    Eve had a benign lump removed from her breast. When she confided to her husband, Mark, that she was distressed because the stitches changed the contour of her breast, he answered, "You can always have plastic surgery."

    This comment bothered her. "I'm sorry you don't like the way it looks," she protested. "But I'm not having any more surgery!"

    Mark was hurt and puzzled. "I don't care about a scar," he replied. "It doesn't bother me at all."

    "Then why are you telling me to have plastic surgery?" she asked.

    "Because you were upset about the way it looks."

    Eve felt like a heel. Mark had been wonderfully supportive throughout her surgery. How could she snap at him now?

    The problem stemmed from a difference in approach. To many men a complaint is a challenge to come up with a solution. Mark thought he was reassuring Eve by telling her there was something she could do about her scar. But often women are looking for emotional support, not solutions.

    When my mother tells my father she doesn't feel well, he invariably offers to take her to the doctor. Invariably, she is disappointed with his reaction. Like many men, he is focused on what he can do, whereas she wants sympathy.

    Information vs. Feelings.

    A cartoon shows a husband opening a newspaper and asking his wife, "Is there anything you'd like to say to me before I start reading the paper?" We know there isn't - but that as soon as the man begins reading, his wife will think of something.

    The cartoon is funny because people recognize their own experience in it. What's not funny is that many women are hurt when men don't talk to them at home, and many men are frustrated when they disappoint their partners without knowing why.

    Rebecca, who is happily married, told me this is a source of dissatisfaction with her husband, Stuart. When she tells him what she is thinking, he listens silently. When she asks him what is on his mind, he says, "Nothing."

    All Rebecca's life she has had practice in verbalizing her feelings with friends and relatives. But Stuart has had practice in keeping his innermost thoughts to himself. To him, like most men, talk is information. He doesn't feel that talk is required at home.

    Yet many such men hold center stage in a social setting, telling jokes and stories. They use conversation to claim attention and to entertain. Women can wind up hurt that their husbands tell relative strangers things they have not told them.

    To avoid this kind of misunderstanding, both men and women can make adjustments. A woman may observe a man's desire to read the paper without seeing it is a rejection. And a man can understand a woman's desire to talk without feeling it is a manipulative intrusion.

    Orders vs. Proposals.

    Diana often begins statements with "Let's." She might say "Let's park over there" or "Let's clean up now, before lunch."

    This makes Nathan angry. He has deciphered Diana's "Let's" as a command. Like most men, he resists being told what to do. But to Diana, she is making suggestions, not demands. Like most women, she formulates her requests as proposals rather than orders. Her style of talking is a way of getting others to do what she wants - but by winning agreement first.

    With certain men, like Nathan, this tactic backfires. If they perceive someone is trying to get them to do something indirectly, they feel manipulated and respond more resentfully than they would to a straightforward request.

    Conflict vs. Compromise.

    In trying to prevent fights, some women refuse to oppose the will of others openly. But sometimes it's far more effective for a woman to assert herself, even at the risk of conflict.

    Dora was frustrated by a series of used cars she drove. It was she who commuted to work, but her husband, Hank, who chose the cars. Hank always went for cars that were "interesting" but in continual need of repair.

    After Dora was nearly killed when her brakes failed, they were in the market for yet another used car. Dora wanted to buy a late-model sedan from a friend. Hank fixed his sights on a 15-year-old sports car. She tried to persuade Hank that it made more sense to buy the boring but dependable car, but he would not be swayed.

    Previously she would have acceded to his wishes. This time Dora bought the boring but dependable car and steeled herself for Hanks' anger. To her amazement, he spoke not a word of remonstrance. When she later told him what she had expected, he scoffed at her fears and said she should have done what she wanted from the start if she felt that strongly about it.

    As Dora discovered, a little conflict won't kill you. At the same time, men who habitually oppose others can adjust their style to opt for less confrontation.

    When we don't see style differences for what they are, we sometimes draw unfair conclusions: "You're illogical," "You're self- centered," "You don't care about me." But once we grasp the two characteristic approaches, we stand a better chance of preventing disagreements from spiraling out of control.

    Learning the other's ways of talking is a leap across the communication gap between men and women, and a giant step towards genuine understanding.
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    Offline Kephapaulos

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    Male - Female Misunderstandings
    « Reply #1 on: June 26, 2009, 10:22:02 PM »
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  • The article gives great advice! It can prevent this from happening ----> :fryingpan:    :laugh1:
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Male - Female Misunderstandings
    « Reply #2 on: June 26, 2009, 11:18:25 PM »
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  • Dr. Tannen has done some really good work. :reading:

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Male - Female Misunderstandings
    « Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 03:43:59 AM »
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  • The following isn't about miscommunication at all:

    Quote
    When Josh's old high-school friend called him at work to say he'd be in town, Josh invited him to stay for the weekend. That evening he told Linda they were having a house guest.

    Linda was upset. How could Josh make these plans without discussing them with her beforehand? She would never do that to him. "Why don't you tell your friend you have to check with your wife?" she asked.

    Josh replied, "I can't tell my friend, 'I have to ask my wife for permission'!"

    To Josh, checking with his wife would mean he was not free to act on his own. It would make him feel like a child or an underling. But Linda actually enjoys telling someone, "I have to check with Josh." It makes her feel good to show that her life is intertwined with her husband's.


    The wife resents the husband having the final say in these matters.  This isn't about communication.

    These stories all have one thing in common: the wife is resentful because she is not reconciled with being submissive.  It has nothing to do with communication.

    I found this line particularly subversive and false:

    Quote
    I now see that my husband was simply approaching the world as many men do: as a place where people try to achieve and maintain status. I, on the other hand, was approaching the world as many women do: as a network of connections seeking support and consensus.


    Women are represented as naturally good and cooperative, men are represented as hostile and opposed to each other.  

    This is typical feminist agit-prop, designed to feed the rationalizations of women who are not submissive.

    Offline PenitentWoman

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    Male - Female Misunderstandings
    « Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 04:23:47 AM »
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  • Pretty sure this was in my m-comm text book or a similar one.  We did male/female role play activities that were the stereotypical TV sitcom arguments.

    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #5 on: July 24, 2012, 04:55:52 AM »
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  • Quote from: PenitentWoman
    Pretty sure this was in my m-comm text book or a similar one.  We did male/female role play activities that were the stereotypical TV sitcom arguments.



    The whole point of shows like Home Improvement or Everybody Loves Raymond was to show the man constantly being whipped into a subordinate role.

    They each took it to the extreme of having episodes devoted to the wives demanding the husbands have vasectomies.

    Offline PenitentWoman

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    « Reply #6 on: July 24, 2012, 05:52:06 AM »
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  • It's funny how they always just enough of certain characteristics to keep the genders apparent.  The men always love sports or other stereotypical manly things. Not sure what the writers are trying to do there.

    How about Roseanne?  She was the epitome of feminine charm. Haha.  
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #7 on: July 24, 2012, 06:02:50 AM »
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  • Must admit, I would not ask my wife's permission if I wanted a friend or relation to stay over.  Firstly I built her a seven bedroom house with my bare hands, second I would not invite anyone she would not like and third she holds the diary. I would simply tell the person they were welcome to stay and that I had to check dates with my wife as she knows what is happening with schools, meals, doctors appointments and all the other household stuff.


    Offline PenitentWoman

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    « Reply #8 on: July 24, 2012, 07:00:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    Must admit, I would not ask my wife's permission if I wanted a friend or relation to stay over.  Firstly I built her a seven bedroom house with my bare hands, second I would not invite anyone she would not like and third she holds the diary. I would simply tell the person they were welcome to stay and that I had to check dates with my wife as she knows what is happening with schools, meals, doctors appointments and all the other household stuff.



    Seven bedrooms? What would you pay me to clean that for you??
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline Graham

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    « Reply #9 on: July 24, 2012, 11:06:51 AM »
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  • Women usually try to ‘build consensus’ by pulling you into their emotional fantasy world, akin to how the modernist hierarchy is endlessly trying to ‘dialogue’. Remaining grounded is interpreted as hostility. Normal men quickly tire of pointless and self-indulgent things like that. In the traditional world women learned to keep it to themselves.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    « Reply #10 on: July 24, 2012, 02:01:12 PM »
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  •   A woman's heart is so full of emotions that she cannot live without responding to her feelings. In the traditional world, she is taught not to expect men to feel the way she feels. In the traditional world she has children who can greatly benefit from her emotionality.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 03:23:31 PM »
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  • Another point should be made, in addition to the point that this is about women rationalizing their resentment of male authority as matters of "communication."

    The constant advice of these sorts of publications is to tell men to be more deferential.  To be less assertive, more desirous of trying to "figure out" what his wife is saying.  

    Sometimes I almost wonder if this is intentionally bad advice.  But perhaps it isn't always a conscious intention, but a subconscious desire to undermine men in their family lives.  

    It is pretty well known that husbands who are too deferential and too eager to please their wives appear weaker.  In practice deference to the wife doesn't cause her to be satisfied that she's being "respected" - rather it leads to the wife escalating these mind games to see if she can respect her husband.

    The solution to this problem is to recall what St. Paul said.  The wife needs to respect her husband.  Full stop.  It's not his duty to constantly prove himself, she just needs to do it.


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 03:29:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: PenitentWoman
    How about Roseanne? She was the epitome of feminine charm. Haha.


    "Roseanne" was the worst sitcom I have ever watched. I only watched a few episodes, years ago, and I don't remember ever laughing at the show.

    But in response to what Tele was getting at, yes, sitcoms tend to place men in subordinate roles. Even "The Andy Griffith Show" promoted feminism in one episode.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline PenitentWoman

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    « Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 03:35:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Graham

    Remaining grounded is interpreted as hostility. Normal men quickly tire of pointless and self-indulgent things like that. In the traditional world women learned to keep it to themselves.


    Modern ideas about dating condition women to think men should behave like girlfriends and feed into emotionalism, instead of countering it.  The woman tips the scale with emotional reactions to things.  A man naturally wants to quiet this and tip back the scale, but the modern man will all too often jump to her side of the scale and tell her how right she is to feel this way etc.  It creates a cycle.

    The trick for a man (who wants to be respected like a man and not treated like a girlfriend) is how to balance the scale instead of jumping off it entirely because he can't live up to her ridiculous expectations for emotional indulgence. Remaining grounded doesn't have to mean completely dismissing her feelings, because most women, if ignored, will just become more caught up in their feelings and push harder to be coddled.
     This is where you can employ a Christ-like love (kind but firm) to guide her. Label her feelings for her, as you see them.  Gently correct her if her reaction to something isn't logical.  This gives a woman a chance to reflect and realize it if she is being irrational.  There is no reason to indulge overly emotional behavior, but there is good reason to call her on it by giving your objective, and authentically male interpretation of it.  There is a real feeling of security for a woman when dealt with this way.  

     
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline PenitentWoman

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    « Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 03:57:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     A woman's heart is so full of emotions that she cannot live without responding to her feelings. In the traditional world, she is taught not to expect men to feel the way she feels. In the traditional world she has children who can greatly benefit from her emotionality.


    It is true that women are full of emotions. This is especially true for me, as I am a very emotional, sensitive person. You are right in that this design benefits children. However, God's design also includes fatherly (more authoritative love) to balance it out.   One concern for me, as an unwed mother is that my daughter misses out on that crucial component of male guidance.

    If everything happened according to design (clearly defined gender roles) it seems like it would be pretty easy to handle things.  All of this literature seems to be aimed at promoting marriages where everything is equal and free of gender.  We can ask people to act outside their gender all they want, but what has that done to marriage, statistically, since all this literature has come out? Are people happier?

    Women want security, but it is hard for a woman in modern society to be able to think objectively about how exactly real security is attained. It is easy to mistake willingness to be a softy for security.  It isn't politically correct for a woman to desire protection and guidance from a man.
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25