Author Topic: Male - Female Misunderstandings (Read 16401 times)

MrsZ · « **Reply #15 on:** July 24, 2012, 05:23:22 PM »

I don't think men and women are supposed to talk to each other. Except practical things (like they mentioned in the article, planning events, checking on dates..)

I don't have a sister, a mother, or a friend that I can confide in.

I am coming to believe that God has allowed this level of isolation so that I will only rely on Him and His Mother Mary, for my confidences in the form of prayers and meditation.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2012, 05:26:44 PM »

Quote from: MrsZ

I don't think men and women are supposed to talk to each other. Except practical things (like they mentioned in the article, planning events, checking on dates..)

I think they are, but it's a lost art. Particularly the art of the woman who knows how to please and comfort her mate with soothing words.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2012, 10:19:51 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Sometimes I almost wonder if this is intentionally bad advice. But perhaps it isn't always a conscious intention, but a subconscious desire to undermine men in their family lives.

Usually the advice is bad for everyone. The advice for women is to be direct. While directness might be better than expecting him to be a mind reader, it is way too easy for women to come across as assertive and disrespectful when attempting to be "direct."
If that happens you're back to square one.

This type of sociological theory has the same marketing strategy as many pharmaceuticals. It makes your problem worse so you need more of it.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2012, 10:22:52 PM »

Quote from: MrsZ

I don't think men and women are supposed to talk to each other.

:cry: Prayers. I'm sorry you're struggling. Loneliness is hard on anyone.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #19 on:** July 24, 2012, 10:59:32 PM »

This is from a Protestant blog, but I think it is just generally in the spirit of Christian marriage.

Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you. Genesis 3:16

Let's face it, sometimes our guys make leadership choices that are just plain bad. We see train wreck coming long before, and we try to warn them, nag them, plead with them, fight with them, but to no avail. What's a girl to do? Make a biblical appeal, that's what.

Before we make an appeal, though, we need to check our heart motive. Here are some questions to ask yourself:

1. Have I shown my husband that I trust his leadership over the course of the marriage? 2. Have I been a nag or ill- tempered towards him in previous leadership decisions? 3. Is the decision he's making one that will not affect eternity? (i.e. He's deciding on the paint color of the house and you disapprove?) 4. Is this decision wrong, evil, immoral? If so, proceed with the appeal.

You may be asking, "Am I even able to make an appeal? Aren't I supposed to obey? " Obedience comes with the final decision, but you have a right, as your husband's helper, to present an alternate solution. You can lovingly, wisely, help him change his mind. But, whatever the final decision is, you do need to obey his final choice. God will see to it that you are protected.

Matthew 15:21-28 about the Canaanite woman who was able to change Jesus' mind after making an appeal to Him.)

To sum up this lengthy post, the key words in making an appeal are as follows:

1. Timing: make sure you've prayed about the timing. Do not make an appeal when Hubby is hungry, tired, or cranky.

2. Softly: make sure you are gentle, soft, quiet while making your appeal. Do this without false motives. Remember 1 Peter 3:4!

3. Lovingly: do not withhold affection or tenderness towards Hubby as a form of punishment for a bad decision. Remember "kindness leads to repentance" and "love keeps no record of wrongs."

I made an appeal last year. I have a personal conviction to let the Lord plan out my family. My husband is under the conviction that birth control is okay. Now, do I fret and worry about his personal conviction and how that will play out in our family life? No! I simply made an appeal. I said, very lovingly, gently, and softly my opinion, and told him that if he would like to decide a permanent birth control measure, he had every freedom to do so. He has not taken it upon himself to do anything, and so, it's up to him now. What a wonderful perk of submission! I can rest in my conviction and he can answer to the Lord for his decision.

Dear wife, use your wifely charms to your advantage. No, not to manipulate or to usurp authority under the guise of femininity, but to encourage, help, and love your man the way God wants you too. You were created last and the pinnacle of God's creation, save for Christ. Your husband is attracted to you, your looks, your personality. Use your gentle and quiet spirit to your advantage to be the best helpmeet to your man! Trust God to work out the rest! (Proverbs 16:9)

Thoughts?

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #20 on:** July 24, 2012, 11:05:14 PM »

(Obviously her personal example about birth control is not Catholic, but this is about the approach.)

ora pro me · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2012, 10:12:47 PM »

PW, This post from a Protestant site does more harm on this thread than good because birth control is a matter of sin and in matters of sin neither spouse may ever give in to the other. I'm sure you realize that in hindsight since I do see your post in that regard, but in the future perhaps you should give more thought before posting something from a Protestant site.

For the sake of avoiding any confusion, particularly to nonCatholics or newbies who come to this site, perhaps the post could be removed.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2012, 10:25:46 PM »

I'm sorry. I made note that the birth control example was wrong.I didn't intend to copy that portion. Obviously I am personally very opposed to manipulation of fertility.

I posted it because it was another perspective on marriage communication.The original post was secular.I guess I haven't learned yet what the difference is in submission based solely on the Bible versus the Catholic teaching. I didn't know it was harmful (or anymore harmful than the secular piece) and I'm very sorry.I tried to make it clear that it wasn't specifically Catholic.

Again,my apologies . I'm terrible at this.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:41:15 AM »

I've really had a lot of trouble finding an exclusively Catholic explanation, describing in detail, how communication is to happen when headship of the husband is recognized.

Besides the writers birth control example, what is dangerous or wrong about her approach?

I am genuinely trying to learn and prepare myself. Maybe I've got this all wrong? Do some believe the modern egalitarian approach to communication is better than one that advises gentle appeal by concerned wives but recognizes obedience must ultimately be observed?

I'm sorry if my question is silly.

:sad:

Flannery · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2012, 07:57:01 AM »

These single mothers are so dangerous and presumptive that you can’t make it up! Since when is an unmarried mother in a position to present advice about communication between husbands and wives/men and women? Their status as out-of-wedlock mothers demonstrates their unsuitability for posting on this subject.

Penitent Woman, you are not to be faulted for promoting a submissive attitude for wives, but that also extends to all females knowing their place. Where you have gone wrong is taking it upon yourself to research a topic and post an article about it, an endeavor that is best left to the men who are more knowledgeable and qualified to do so.

You are educated and realize the importance of quoting sources and support, but I would suggest that you let the men on this forum provide those references for our edification. They can cite authentic, credible sources from the proper religious tradition and have demonstrated that they are capable of doing so. While there is disagreement among them on some threads, they are more skilled in argument and debate. I don’t pretend or aspire to argue so well as they do; it’s my place to benefit from their posts.

Your intentions were good but your seemingly innocuous post is troubling for more than a few reasons. This is a great example of why such pursuits are better off left to men. As women, we must defer to their more superior intellectual faculties. Our domestic duties and accomplishments do not include elocution and rhetoric.

St. Paul does not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be silent, he says.

Before I get jumped on, Penitent Woman did ask where she was in error here. This is my response, however unwell it might be received.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #25 on:** July 26, 2012, 08:07:07 AM »

I was never ever trying to teach. I asked for thoughts on something I read. I wanted someone to guide as to if it was correct or not. I don't have easy access to a traditional priest and questions are numerous. If I don't research, how do I know?

My chances at traditional marriage are not very good.I want the best resume and understanding possible so that I can at least try to overcome what I cannot change.I have zero real life examples of how Catholic marriage is supposed to be. My intent in to learn. I'm truly sorry if it doesn't seem that way.

I'm sorry you think I'm dangerous. I really do feel terrible.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #26 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:03:42 AM »

Quote from: Flannery

These single mothers are so dangerous and presumptive that you can’t make it up! Since when is an unmarried mother in a position to present advice about communication between husbands and wives/men and women? Their status as out-of-wedlock mothers demonstrates their unsuitability for posting on this subject.

Please try to be more humble and to thank God that your status is so much more superior and holy.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #27 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:24:34 AM »

Quote from: PenitentWoman

My chances at traditional marriage are not very good.

Nonsense. Do your Holy Hours of Reparation (recover the innocence which was lost by sin) and Rosary, maintain a contrite heart, and an eagerness to co-operate with God's grace. Study the lives of the Saints and you will gain a better understanding of your situation.

There are plenty of heinous sinners who are traditional, spewing advice and offering instruction all over the Internet! Most of us sinners do not reveal our personal situations, that's all.

We are no better than the Catholics of 50 years ago, in this vale of tears. We are all sinners who need to do penance.

Malleus 01 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:57:20 AM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

Quote from: PenitentWoman

My chances at traditional marriage are not very good.

Nonsense. Do your Holy Hours of Reparation (recover the innocence which was lost by sin) and Rosary, maintain a contrite heart, and an eagerness to co-operate with God's grace. Study the lives of the Saints and you will gain a better understanding of your situation.

There are plenty of heinous sinners who are traditional, spewing advice and offering instruction all over the Internet! Most of us sinners do not reveal our personal situations, that's all.

We are no better than the Catholics of 50 years ago, in this vale of tears. We are all sinners who need to do penance.

Malleus: Now that is a wise post and I thank you for it Elizabeth.

As to the question of Roles that GOD has established for Men and Women - indeed Women are to be subject to their husbands , just as Husbands are to love their Wives as Christ loves the Church. Those TWO go hand in hand.

http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id204.html

catherineofsiena · « **Reply #29 on:** July 26, 2012, 05:02:19 PM »

Quote from: Flannery

These single mothers are so dangerous and presumptive that you can’t make it up! Since when is an unmarried mother in a position to present advice about communication between husbands and wives/men and women? Their status as out-of-wedlock mothers demonstrates their unsuitability for posting on this subject.

Penitent Woman, you are not to be faulted for promoting a submissive attitude for wives, but that also extends to all females knowing their place. Where you have gone wrong is taking it upon yourself to research a topic and post an article about it, an endeavor that is best left to the men who are more knowledgeable and qualified to do so.

You are educated and realize the importance of quoting sources and support, but I would suggest that you let the men on this forum provide those references for our edification. They can cite authentic, credible sources from the proper religious tradition and have demonstrated that they are capable of doing so. While there is disagreement among them on some threads, they are more skilled in argument and debate. I don’t pretend or aspire to argue so well as they do; it’s my place to benefit from their posts.

Your intentions were good but your seemingly innocuous post is troubling for more than a few reasons. This is a great example of why such pursuits are better off left to men. As women, we must defer to their more superior intellectual faculties. Our domestic duties and accomplishments do not include elocution and rhetoric.

St. Paul does not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be silent, he says.

Before I get jumped on, Penitent Woman did ask where she was in error here. This is my response, however unwell it might be received.

Your post was not only uncharitable it was inaccurate. Perhaps you are the one who needs to read and study more.

-------------------------

To confound their arrogance, I will raise up women"
-Christ to Saint Catherine of Siena

Christ told Saint Catherine in a vision that he wished to send her into the world to bring it back to Him. She asked Him how she, a woman, would do this when "it is not highly considered by men, and also because it is not good, for decency’s sake, for a woman to mix with men".

Christ replied:

"You must know that in these latter days there has been such an upsurge of pride, especially in the case of men who imagine themselves to be learned or wise, that my justice cannot endure them any longer, without delivering a just chastisement upon them that will bring them to confusion… To confound their arrogance, I will raise up women ignorant and frail by nature but endowed with strength and divine wisdom. Then, if they will come to their senses and humble themselves, I will behave with the utmost mercy towards them, that is to say, towards those who, according to the grace given them, receive my doctrine, offered them in fragile but specially chosen vessels, and follow it reverently… For indeed it is only just that those who try to exalt themselves should be humbled."