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Author Topic: Makeup is a work of the devil  (Read 8681 times)

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Offline josefamenendez

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Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2025, 05:41:35 PM »
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  • Sorry, the way i said this was a bit mean.
    I think if men trim their nose hairs or shave between their unibrow that it is a deceptive practice to fool potential partners that may not normally find cro-magnon men attractive.

    Also if you shave your head to make baldness look "cooler" it is another way of masking the natural "Larry" look of just having a chrome dome with fringe hanging around the ears.

    Trimming the birds-nests out of your ears is also an unnatural practice that potential suitors might find dishonest.

    Offline Chris Z

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #61 on: March 30, 2025, 07:01:07 PM »
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  • even an old house needs a new coat of paint from time to time


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #62 on: March 30, 2025, 07:14:48 PM »
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  • Are we Puritans or Catholics? A little subtle makeup on a woman, say 16 and up is fine if it enhances her appearance but doesn’t make her stick out or look like she’s in disguise or going on the stage or TV broadcast. 
    100% “natural” is not an indication of morality as some extremists like to suggest. Should a person never cut, style or trim his or hair? Should men not shave at all and allow their hair and beards to grow at will? What about a woman with hair down to her ankles or a big shaggy unibrow and chin hairs? How does a woman with a mustaches, nose, and ear hairs look to you gentlemen?  Ladies, do you like a man who resembles a gorilla?  
    There is no good reason for anyone to be accused having a demonic spirit for wearing a little makeup and being well groomed. In fact, if you look at Scripture, it’s the opposite. How did the demoniac in the tombs appear? Aside from being naked, he was unwashed and unkempt.  Once delivered, he reappeared clothed and appropriately groomed. Nebuchadnezzar lost his mind due to pride, and looked most frightful, all hairy like an animal in looks and behavior until God released him from his punishment. 
    The other extreme, too much makeup, too lavish, too much attention to one’s appearance and it becomes idolatry. Look at Jezebel or Delilah, or Lot’s wife who was so enamored of the ways of Sodom she looked back in longing as God was destroying it and she was stuck, petrified into a pillar of salt. 

    The use of makeup to conceal scars, discolorations, wigs, for women especially, to conceal hair loss, is not wrong. Is it sinful for a man or woman to remove superfluous hairs, like those growing from nose, ears, in eyebrows, or for a woman to remove chin, lip, and mole hairs?  
    The same holds for jewelry. Should Catholics not wear any jewelry? No wedding rings, no wristwatches, for the ladies, no bracelet, necklace, or earrings? What about holy medals around the neck? Must they be hidden beneath clothes and no Rosaries doubling as jewelry? If your clothing lacks pockets, what better way to always have your Rosary than to wear it?  Again, jewelry can be overdone to the point of being gaudy, showing off one’s wealth, or just plain tacky, in poor taste. A Miraculous Medal on a gold chain makes a nice finishing touch to many women. A man who wears a St. Christopher or St. Benedict medal on a more masculine looking chain is fine, a way to let the world know he/she is not ashamed to publicly affirm his/her Catholicism.  One covers him/herself in all manner of jewelry is one who shows off. It is unfitting for a Catholic to have earrings all over his/her body. Some locations are just not suitable for earrings. It is not healthy, physically or psychologically to have a tongue rod, pierced nipples, pierced septum, private parts, damaged ear and nose cartilage. It shows disrespect for the body. But the wearing of a tasteful set of earrings, bracelet, and necklace is complimentary. Heaping one’s body with chains and holes or negatively affecting physical function is not of God. Women may wear more jewelry than men to reflect their femininity. A man wearing women’s jewelry is not masculine. Many “body modifications” are associated with paganism and are unhealthy. Japanese footbinding is crippling. Wearing a huge clay plate in one’s lower lip requires loss of lower teeth and affects eating and speech. Wearing golden bands around the neck so as to stretch the neck to the point where it cannot support the head if they are removed, is dangerous to the point of death. Designs in the skin made by cutting and burning can easily result in infection leading to sepsis. Catholics should not imitate these practices. 
    Find a balance between Bigfoot and Bozo!  Moderation in all things, people! 

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #63 on: March 30, 2025, 08:06:58 PM »
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  • Quote
    I don’t need to answer this, you’re obscuring my argument into a Vatican 2 style relativism. “Everything is dependent upon context”. Makeup is always wrong because it is always deceitful whether that is your intent behind it or not.
    One could go on and on, rebutting your extremism (as Ladislaus has done) but i'll stick with a few points:

    1.  "Context" is an important part of moral theology.  Many human acts are "neutral" in the moral sphere; they become sins based on "context" (or more aptly called 'circuмstances'). 
    a.  Eating meat is not a sin on Wednesday.  Eating meat on Wednesday, right before receiving communion, is a sin.  Eating meat on Ash Wednesday is a sin.
    b.  Context/circuмstances matter.  Your calling it "relativism" shows you don't understand what relativism is, nor do you understand much of moral theology.

    2.  Makeup enhances, it does not alter.  Ergo, there's no deceit, generally speaking. 
    a.  That's why the old saying "putting lipstick on a pig" is so true.  It's still a pig, no matter how you dress it up.  And everyone knows it's a pig.  There's no deceit.

    3.  Anyone who is making "deceit-level, important-decisions" based on outward appearances, is a fool.
    a.  Anyone who is "judging a book by it's cover" as in regards to dating/courtship is an utter fool.

    4.  I've never heard of any impediment where a man/woman couldn't show up to Mass dressed in a costume, designed to hide their identity and receive the sacraments.  If a man shows up in a suit/tie, but he's wearing a prosthetic face mask and fake nose, why could he not receive communion?  (Assuming it was not a distracting costume)?

    Your arguments are not only puritanical, but also Jansenist.

    Your arguments are also based on this weird assumption that somehow people OWE YOU a 100%, unfiltered view of who they are.  No one owes you anything.  And you aren't owed 100% access into people's lives.  People hide/minimize things about themselves all the time - whether it's related to being shy, so they don't talk to strangers much.  Or maybe they have bad teeth so they don't give a big smile.  Or maybe they are self-conscious about having a limited education, when a certain topic comes up in conversation, so they keep quiet.  Or they wear makeup to hide face blemishes or they are self-conscious about something else. 

    Has nothing to do with deceit.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #64 on: March 30, 2025, 09:19:23 PM »
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  • I don’t need to answer this, you’re obscuring my argument into a Vatican 2 style relativism. “Everything is dependent upon context”. Makeup is always wrong because it is always deceitful whether that is your intent behind it or not.

    So far the main objections have been:
    1. My acne is bad so people don’t like to look at me if I am without makeup.

    2. I’m getting old and I don’t like it so I’m allowed to wear makeup.

    3. A little bit of makeup isn’t deceptive because it is the same as grooming.
    Context and intention does infact matter. What about men who go bald? Is it wrong for them to take the means to prevent baldness?

    If they do it for women is it a sin?
    If that women is their wife, is it a sin?
    For random women?
    If they do it for their own self esteem is it a sin?

    I've seen it mentioned on this forum many times that moral theology is not clear cut black and white. There are nuances that cannot be overlooked. Most things do have a case by case basis.

    Calling this Vatican 2 style relativism is a meme and does not help your argument.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #65 on: March 30, 2025, 09:21:08 PM »
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  • One could go on and on, rebutting your extremism (as Ladislaus has done) but i'll stick with a few points:

    Very few material/object things are intrinsically evil.  That's precisely the attitude of the Pharisees that Our Lord denounced in calling them painted sepulchers, considering the prohibition of work on Sunday or various cleanliness laws to be absolutes.

    Activities that can take place without sin between a married couple and can even be meritorious are gravely sinful outside of marriage.  One commits a grave sin in taking some substances that cause the loss of reason ... except when they're taking drugs considered necessary for a surgical procedure or to alleviate great pain.  One could go on and on about how things like circuмstances and in fact formal intention matter where it comes to the sinfulness or liceity of all human actions.  There are rarely absolute evils.  Even taking a human life is not an absolute evil, since it can be done in situations of self defense or the defense of others, and in fact must be done by societies to keep order and uphold the dignity of human life.

    Turning no makeup into an absolute is just ridiculous.  Not only is there no sin to, say, put on a bit of concealer to cover up some acne (any more than it would be a sin to put a bandage over a festering wound), but it's not even a sin to effect a subtle enhancement of a feminine appearance, especially for some ladies who may perhaps have a slightly more masculine appearance.  In fact, people deride women who do NOT make themselves appear more feminine by not wearing dresses, but instead wearing pants, or who wear their hair short, etc.  So if not appearing masculine is to be praised among women, then applying a bit of makeup to appear a bit more feminine than you might otherwise would be fine also and perhaps even praiseworthy if the goal and fomal intention is that same that she would have in wearing a dress, not to look masculine but a bit more feminine.  Now, clearly one crosses a line with heavy application, especially in ways that might incite impurity, or in a context, as you said, where you're seeking a spouse and want to make yourself look like a "10" (so to speak) when you're reall just a "3" ... as there would be some open deception there to the detriment of others.  And that's the line that would be crossed in terms of "deception", where the deception would be injurious to someone else who had a right to know the truth or reality.  But if a married woman puts on some makeup that doesn't attract undue attention from men other than her husband, or just to please her husband or to honor her husband, there's meritorious not sinful.  What if the woman's intention / motivation, thinking nothing of hereself, is along the lines of "I don't want to embarrass my husband by having people think he could only marry a homely woman like me."  Or if I'm a man and have a huge beer gut and my thinking to lose said gut is not my own vanity but because I think, "I don't want to embarrass my wife for people to say THAT is her husaband."

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #66 on: March 30, 2025, 09:21:17 PM »
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  • Makeup is always wrong because it is always deceitful whether that is your intent behind it or not.
    This is iillogical and infact irrational.
    >I am right and everyone else is wrong
    >Not because the Church said so
    >But because I just am OK!

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #67 on: March 30, 2025, 09:26:17 PM »
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  • If I paint my car with the intent to please others, how does it change the fact that I have painted the car from its original colour?
    What sort of bad logic is this?
    >Comparing women's makeup to a car's paint
    >Orginal colour
    :facepalm: the original colour of a vehicle is based on the metal and factors that effect that metal. Most cars have several different colour options to pick from.

    Eg. I could buy a yellow McLaren F1 or a red one. If I don't like the colour I can always get a paint job. Original colour here doesn't work.

    On a similar level this is why I mentioned acne scars + pigmentation marks + moles etc. Because babies don't have these things. They get acquired in life due to various circuмstances that in many cases can be avoided.

    So where is the original colour, or rather the original face/skin? The face when a baby? The face when an adult? This is why I mentioned these things 1 paragraph up, because they aren't 'original', hence why removing them isn't inherently deceitful. At least according to your own logic of original colour.


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #68 on: March 30, 2025, 09:27:45 PM »
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  • You know, all use of make up is evil we get that. Those evil powders and paints...

    But what about a clown make up?:clown:

    That seems appropriate to some people. What do our theologians say? Is it evil too?
    This is why Lad is right and it does depend. A clown could be seen to make people laugh and happy, which is a good. Of course some people do not like clowns and are frightened of them.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #69 on: March 30, 2025, 09:28:27 PM »
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  • Yeah, we're one step away from Christian Science.

    Well, wearing clothes is intrinsically wrong since it's deceitful, since you're hiding your beer belly under a shirt.

    Having a surgical procedure to remove some infected body part (appendix) is contrary to nature since God intended you to have an appendix and it's mutilation to remove it ... so people with appendicitis should be trusted to God's Mercy and then allowed to die if He so wills it.

    It's "deceitful" for a man to even shave, since, that's not how God intended it and you're not allowing the real natural you to be scene.

    It's "deceitful" to use deodorant because you're hiding your true natural body odors, which in nature might reveal to someone else that you may have some kind of physical shortcomings (if you smell especially bad).

    It's deceitful to trim your nails or your beard to cut your hair.

    It's deceitful to wear contact lenses because people should know that you have poor vision and they might not notice that if you're wearing contacts.  Prospective spouses have a right to know whether or not your vision is impaired.

    One could go on with this absurdity forever.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #70 on: March 30, 2025, 09:30:17 PM »
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  • This is why Lad is right and it does depend. A clown could be seen to make people laugh and happy, which is a good. Of course some people do not like clowns and are frightened of them.

    Indeed, actors wear makeup all the time, for various roles ... to make them DELIBERATELY look like someone they're not, i.e. to "deceive" quite on purpose.

    I addition, anyone appearing on TV might have some powder applied to prevent the lights to cause glare off their faces on the camera.

    Soldiers will put on blackface on night missions as a form of camoflauge.

    All this this would be intrinsically evil on account of "deceit".


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #71 on: March 30, 2025, 09:33:59 PM »
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  • 2.  Makeup enhances, it does not alter.  Ergo, there's no deceit, generally speaking. 
    a.  That's why the old saying "putting lipstick on a pig" is so true.  It's still a pig, no matter how you dress it up.  And everyone knows it's a pig.  There's no deceit.
    Good post but I partially disagree with this. There are plenty of videos showing women who look completely different with and without makeup. I posted 2 earlier, note that this is heavy makeup.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #72 on: March 30, 2025, 09:34:59 PM »
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  • At the end of the day, if you can either cite a source or articulate a rational argument in defense of your position, I'd consider it with an open mind.  But merely regurgitating your gratuitous assertion without any evidence or argument or proof, over and over again, doesn't suffice.

    Cite some Magisterial or theological source that concurs with your opinion, preferably with some explanation of the principles involved ... why it's sinful, etc.

    Of course, if you read ANY Catholic theologian, I would say that nearly 80% of their work involves an explanation of the principles in terms of when and under what conditions something is sinful or not sinful.  It's sinful to miss Mass on Sundays ... unless you're sick, legitimately impeded (car breaks down), need to provide a service in charity (take care of a sick family member), and on and on and on and on.  As mentioned, rare are the absolute intrinsic evils, where not even taking human life is intrinsically evil.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #73 on: March 30, 2025, 09:40:40 PM »
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  • Good post but I partially disagree with this. There are plenty of videos showing women who look completely different with and without makeup. I posted 2 earlier, note that this is heavy makeup.

    Oh, there's a new phenomenon now where in ADDITION to heavy makeup, many women (and a disturbingly growing number of men) use software to "enhance" (and often completely change) their appearance on dating sites or social media sites, euphemistically refering to them as filters.  So the original intent of filters was to remove things that were artifacts of the photo process, like weird-looking eyes, strange angles, poor lighting, etc.  But now the actually apply more and more AI to change one's appearance, often radically.

    As Pax said, however, even that is not inherently sinful, but it depends upon the context and whether someone has a right to know the truth.

    I one sense, all of us who haven't revealed our true identities here on CI are being "deceitful", no?

    It's similar to lying, where it's not lying to withhold information or even to mislead someone who has no right to that information, as a right to know is required for any violation of justice.

    So, some random person on the internet has no real right to know what you actually look like.

    BUT if you're using the altered appearance to get the interest of a man who would not otherwise be interested based on your physical appearance, that entails a sinful deception for sure.

    OR if you alter your appearance to such an extent as to invoke feelings of lust and impurity in others, potentially leading them into sin ... then that clearly entails a sinful deceptin due (once again) to the harm caused to others.

    Pax explained it well that not everyone has the right to know everything about us, either physically or in any other way.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Makeup is a work of the devil
    « Reply #74 on: March 30, 2025, 09:45:22 PM »
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  • Indeed, actors wear makeup all the time, for various roles ... to make them DELIBERATELY look like someone they're not, i.e. to "deceive" quite on purpose.

    I addition, anyone appearing on TV might have some powder applied to prevent the lights to cause glare off their faces on the camera.

    Soldiers will put on blackface on night missions as a form of camoflauge.

    All this this would be intrinsically evil on account of "deceit".
    Yeah it really depends.

    On similar topic it's no surprise that people get feelings of looking inadequate, because they compare themselves to actors who are usually people on the higher end of attractiveness, who always have makeup on for their films and events, and who always are in 'good' lightning. Not just the women, but even the male actors do this, many even get 'work' done to their faces.

    On that topic is it deceitful to use good camera angles and lighting? I can look completely different in 1 angle from another. How look in real life can also depend on the lightning. A midday sun will make me look different to sunset/sunrise or indoor white overhead lighting.