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Author Topic: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?  (Read 2710 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
« Reply #60 on: Yesterday at 06:48:34 AM »
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    • Since the fall of man, nature and biology are no longer perfect.
    • It is through grace that nature finds its true perfection.
    Just because we may feel naturally inclined toward something doesn't automatically make it right. Discernment is essential in all areas of life—not just when it comes to attraction.
    It may not be perfect but biology is a good indication for when things should be done. If the Church allowed it for ~2000 years and it was the norm before non-Catholic ideologies took over Europe then maybe the modern world is the one that is wrong.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #61 on: Yesterday at 06:50:03 AM »
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  • my uncle at 27 years old married his wife at 17 years old with her parents' approval in the Catholic Church

    *edit: in the novus ordo
    When was this? My parents are similar ~9 yr gap, but they are boomers and not western European so it was more normal for them.


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #62 on: Yesterday at 06:52:40 AM »
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  • I don't know why this is even an important topic of discussion anyway.

    In the general case, one should rely on what's legal according to both canon and secular law. But there's really no need to try to marry the youngest possible women - even if fertility and risk of pregnancy complications are one's concern, the late teens are the start of peak fertility and not the end. It does seem a bit odd if someone's fixated on what the youngest age he can marry is, unless he has a specific young lady in mind who he's interested in for other reasons than her age. What are even they going to do with that information? Go around asking around people if that have daughters in high school they can be introduced to?

    For the specific case, it depends on the woman herself and if her parents approve. It's not just up to you and her to decide if she's ready for marriage if she's living under her father's roof. If everyone involved is happy and the marriage is legal, then whatever someone said on Cathinfo is irrelevant. If the parties involved are not happy with a marriage that young, then it doesn't matter how many people on Cathinfo gave the thumbs up.
    Oh I agree, there are plenty of teen girls I wouldn't consider marrying for whatever reason.

    I think the real issue is that many trads are very strongly against an age gap because of feminist tendencies. That's why there was such a visceral reaction in the other thread.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #63 on: Yesterday at 06:55:07 AM »
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  • The economic reality you describe atm is becoming more and more common tho
    Depending on the county. Canada and Australia have extremely bad housing.

    Offline phillips

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #64 on: Yesterday at 06:59:30 AM »
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  • Yeah sure that would be helpful.
    sorry i don't know

    you can probably find the info by using a search engine


    Offline phillips

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 07:01:25 AM »
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  • When was this? My parents are similar ~9 yr gap, but they are boomers and not western European so it was more normal for them.
    late 1970s

    Offline phillips

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 07:06:41 AM »
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  • my dad at 42 years old courted a 19 year old university student woman for like 6 months or a year. both Catholics. he even met her parents who were basically the same age as him. she went to a private Catholic uni

    Offline FarmerWife

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 08:01:02 AM »
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  • Large age gaps between men and women usually occurred out of economic necessity, i.e. in times and places where many men couldn't afford to support a family until they were much older. We have marriage records, however, showing that the average ages of marriage for men and women in Western Europe were only a few years apart and both stayed within the 20-25 range. Women in Northern and Western Europe didn't tend to marry before 20 as they also had to work for a few years to save for marriage.

    This is for common people though - for the nobility it was different, as their youth did not need to save money before marriage and political concerns were a much bigger factor. As such they often marroed younger - but even then, it was common that the couple wouldn't actually cohabitate until they were a bit older.

    All that being said - there is nothing unnatural about being attracted to a 16 year old, but it's not some historical norm for a 35 year old man to marry one. If a man wants to marry a young woman and have a happy marriage, he should focus on getting himself into a position where he's ready to marry young. Women (and men) in the modern age mature more slowly due to extended education, and even when they're ready for marriage, they'll be more attracted to men of a similar age, and won't see the same economic incentive (or necessity) for marrying a much older man as a peasant woman in the 1800s might have done.
    That seems like the case. I mean we could interview older men and ask them if they started looking for women when they were younger. Were they rejected by them?

    AnthonyPadua mentioned that a man may want a younger woman because he felt like he spent a decade for example trying to be financially well-off so he thinks he should have a woman in her prime (likely to be a virgin, can have more children, etc.) My question is, is there attempt for men in their late 20s/early 30s to look for women in their own age/slighter younger? Or is there absolutely no interest there?

    I just don’t really know why a teen girl would want to marry an older men unless the men her age wouldn’t be financially able to support a family. Was this the case back then?

    Yes, a peasant woman would have upgraded her socioeconomic status by marrying an older men who had the financial means and it would give their kids better opportunities.




    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 08:16:50 AM »
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  • That seems like the case. I mean we could interview older men and ask them if they started looking for women when they were younger. Were they rejected by them?

    AnthonyPadua mentioned that a man may want a younger woman because he felt like he spent a decade for example trying to be financially well-off so he thinks he should have a woman in her prime (likely to be a virgin, can have more children, etc.) My question is, is there attempt for men in their late 20s/early 30s to look for women in their own age/slighter younger? Or is there absolutely no interest there?

    I just don’t really know why a teen girl would want to marry an older men unless the men her age wouldn’t be financially able to support a family. Was this the case back then?

    Yes, a peasant woman would have upgraded her socioeconomic status by marrying an older men who had the financial means and it would give their kids better opportunities.
    I would say unless a man really likes a particular older girl he will go for the younger ones unless he has no other option. There is a big difference in effort to what makes a man marriage vs a women. Of course if both parents work that is a different story.

    Offline Philothea3

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 10:02:26 AM »
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  • I guess the responses I will get will be "not trad for me" "they wished they married younger girls!" "I dont believe this stats" "youre feminist " but:

     Medieval Europe (c. 500–1500)

    Nobility and Gentry

    Marriage Age: Women often married in their mid-teens, while men typically married in their late teens to early twenties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 2–5 years, with men usually older.

    Context: Marriages were strategic, aiming to forge alliances and consolidate wealth. Betrothals could occur as early as age 12 for girls and 14 for boys, with the actual wedding taking place a few years later. The Church's canon law set the minimum marriageable age at 12 for women and 14 for men. historytools.org

    Peasants and Laborers

    Marriage Age: Both men and women typically married in their mid to late twenties.

    Age Gap: Generally 2–3 years, with women often a bit younger.

    Context: Marriage was delayed until individuals could establish financial independence, often through apprenticeships or service roles. This period of "life-cycle service" was common in both rural and urban settings. 

    Early Modern Period (1500–1800)

    Nobility and Gentry

    Marriage Age: Women married in their late teens to early twenties; men in their early to mid-twenties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 3–5 years.

    Context: Marriages continued to be arranged for political and economic reasons. In regions like England, the average age at first marriage was around 22 for women and 24 for men. 

    Urban and Rural Commoners

    Marriage Age: Women married in their mid to late twenties; men in their late twenties to early thirties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 3–5 years.

    Context: Economic factors, such as the need to save for a dowry or establish a trade, influenced the timing of marriage. In urban areas, individuals often worked as apprentices or servants before marrying. encyclopedia.com

     19th Century

    Upper Classes

    Marriage Age: Women married in their early twenties; men in their mid to late twenties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 3–5 years.

    Context: Marriages were still often arranged, focusing on maintaining or enhancing social status and wealth. However, personal choice began to play a more significant role.

    Middle and Lower ClassesMarriage Age: Women married in their mid to late twenties; men in their late twenties to early thirties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 3–5 years.

    Context: Economic stability was crucial before marriage, leading to delayed unions. In rural areas, agricultural cycles and the need for labor influenced marriage timing.

    Good luck courting teens, buy them lolipop, ice cream and new iPhone so that they can film tiktok dance with justin bieber song and "thank you daddy "
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    THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN, so that we may love you with all our heart, by always having you in mind; with all our soul, by always longing for you; with all our mind, by determining to seek your glory in everything; and with all our strength, of body and soul... 
    - St Francis de Assisi

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 10:54:43 AM »
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  • I guess the responses I will get will be "not trad for me" "they wished they married younger girls!" "I dont believe this stats" "youre feminist " but:

     Medieval Europe (c. 500–1500)

    Nobility and Gentry

    Marriage Age: Women often married in their mid-teens, while men typically married in their late teens to early twenties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 2–5 years, with men usually older.

    Context: Marriages were strategic, aiming to forge alliances and consolidate wealth. Betrothals could occur as early as age 12 for girls and 14 for boys, with the actual wedding taking place a few years later. The Church's canon law set the minimum marriageable age at 12 for women and 14 for men. historytools.org

    Peasants and Laborers

    Marriage Age: Both men and women typically married in their mid to late twenties.

    Age Gap: Generally 2–3 years, with women often a bit younger.

    Context: Marriage was delayed until individuals could establish financial independence, often through apprenticeships or service roles. This period of "life-cycle service" was common in both rural and urban settings.

    Early Modern Period (1500–1800)

    Nobility and Gentry

    Marriage Age: Women married in their late teens to early twenties; men in their early to mid-twenties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 3–5 years.

    Context: Marriages continued to be arranged for political and economic reasons. In regions like England, the average age at first marriage was around 22 for women and 24 for men.

    Urban and Rural Commoners

    Marriage Age: Women married in their mid to late twenties; men in their late twenties to early thirties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 3–5 years.

    Context: Economic factors, such as the need to save for a dowry or establish a trade, influenced the timing of marriage. In urban areas, individuals often worked as apprentices or servants before marrying. encyclopedia.com

     19th Century

    Upper Classes

    Marriage Age: Women married in their early twenties; men in their mid to late twenties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 3–5 years.

    Context: Marriages were still often arranged, focusing on maintaining or enhancing social status and wealth. However, personal choice began to play a more significant role.

    Middle and Lower ClassesMarriage Age: Women married in their mid to late twenties; men in their late twenties to early thirties.

    Age Gap: Approximately 3–5 years.

    Context: Economic stability was crucial before marriage, leading to delayed unions. In rural areas, agricultural cycles and the need for labor influenced marriage timing.

    Good luck courting teens, buy them lolipop, ice cream and new iPhone so that they can film tiktok dance with justin bieber song and "thank you daddy "
    I was going to say not sure why someone downvoted but then I saw your last statement.


    Online forlorn

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #71 on: Yesterday at 11:11:21 AM »
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  • I would say unless a man really likes a particular older girl he will go for the younger ones unless he has no other option. There is a big difference in effort to what makes a man marriage vs a women. Of course if both parents work that is a different story.
    I'm a bit confused at this statement. When you talk about a younger versus an older woman here, how much of a difference do you mean? Because I really don't think people age so fast that a e.g. 24 year old woman would be significantly less attractive than she was at 18, so long as she stayed in shape (and of course, there are teenagers in poor shape too, just less of them).

    Online TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #72 on: Yesterday at 12:58:16 PM »
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  • I don't know why women haven't figured out the desire for a younger wife is probably linked to the desire to marry a virgin.  Men can't be certain of that with women in their 20s anymore.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #73 on: Yesterday at 01:08:48 PM »
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  • Exactly.

    If we're going to regurgitate liberal talking points, why not regurgitate ALL of them?

    "Come on guys, you don't want a woman with no experience. Don't fuss so much about virginity, ya incel... It shows sɛҳuąƖ insecurity to want a woman with no experience..."

    You're already criticizing other natural things, like being celibate while unmarried, being attracted to young fertile women, etc. Why not embrace the whole "used up cat lady" package of propaganda -- throw it ALL at our young Traditional brethren? Why not mock their natural desire for a virgin as well?
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: MAKE YOUR CASE - Discussion of marriage age allowed?
    « Reply #74 on: Yesterday at 01:10:39 PM »
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  • I don't know why women haven't figured out the desire for a younger wife is probably linked to the desire to marry a virgin.  Men can't be certain of that with women in their 20s anymore.

    In fact, I've specifically seen several (non-Catholic) men come to this precise conclusion. They decide their only shot is to find a woman young enough before she enters college, etc. They feel that is their only hope. And strictly speaking they are correct. They're not talking about Trads remember. These poor men don't even have the Faith to strengthen and console them. How many non-Catholic women are virgins at 20? So few as to be ignorable.
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