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Author Topic: lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?  (Read 1642 times)

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Offline curiouscatholic23

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lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
« on: August 27, 2011, 03:12:10 PM »
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  • At what point does God give up on a man who suffers from vile and wicked sins of the flesh with women, particularly over the internet? I went the last 7 months from committing sins of impurity by saying the daily rosary. Then over the last few weeks I developed extreme spiritual pride and started to condemn my whole novus ordo family. At one point I even had the audacity to think I was called to the priesthood. But the other day I surrendered to my most wicked and vile desires committed the same sins I used to committ months ago that I detested. I woke up today and wanted to kill myself. I don't know how this should affect my vocation- on one hand I want to get married for the primary purpose of raising children and sharing my life with somebody, and on the other hand I feel that I should be a monk to make up for all these horrible sins I keep committing over and over and over again. Im at the age now (mid twenties) where I think part of the problem is that I am indecisive about my vocation and the devil knows this so he compounds the stress through these temptations. Any advice would be helpfull. Is it ever acceptable to be a monk because you feel so horrible about your previous sins that you feel you have to pay God back by giving him your life on this earth, so you can attain eternal salvation?


    Offline PartyIsOver221

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 03:16:54 PM »
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  • No.

    Don't be a monk in order to "punish yourself" or allow God's punishment on you for your sins aka masturbation, fornication, etc.

    BE A MONK because you want to be one and you would enjoy that life more so than a married life. Only at that point would it make sense to oblige to that.

    Otherwise, continue in the battle for purity, getting a job/keeping a job to fund marriage and daily prayer in order to keep the devil at bay.


    And don't worry so much too!


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 03:20:44 PM »
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  • You don't have to become a monk or priest to be forgiven for your sins. A person who committed horrible sins in their past can still be saved on their deathbed by converting and telling God they are sorry for their sins. God does not give up on anyone, ever. People work on their salvation their whole life.

    Continue to pray for your vocation. Sometimes figuring out your vocation can be rather difficult, but God will eventually reveal to you what His Will is.

    God Bless.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline curiouscatholic23

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 03:22:23 PM »
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  • Actually I got a lot to worry about, my salvation being one of them. I just went on a two day 10 hour sins of the flesh binge, kind of like a crack addict who stays clean for a couple of years then wanders back into the crackhouse.

    I guess the worst part about sins of the flesh in addition to angering Our Lord, is the fact that the secular women who I sinned with will most likely be in hell partly on my account becuase they lack the faith to begin with and don't believe in confession. Where as I, who knew the faith, should have known better but kept sinning anyway.

    Its not about knowledge. I know all there is to know on Vatican II, SSPX, sedevacatism, etc. but I just sold our Lord down the river for less than thirty pieces of silver and now I understand what kind of pain Judas felt right before he got that rope.

    Offline PartyIsOver221

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 03:52:17 PM »
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  • I understand the "binge" mentality. Usually when it rains, it pours, as far as sins go.

    And I still say, don't worry. By "don't worry" I actually mean don't despair of God's grace and you being able to still be saved. You just need to muster up the tiny ounce of faith and say NO MORE, and then stop...for a few minutes. For a few hours. For a day, etc. Look around outside, and see death, destruction, sin abounding. Be in awe at the grandeur of it all, and realize how God can save you even from your expected ruin.

    That's what I mean by "don't worry".

    As long as you are breathing, you have time to redeem yourself and come back into God's graces. You may not have the "best house in Heaven" as some of the saints do (hey I know I might not have the biggest palace in Heaven) but Heaven is Heaven, right?

    Keep it up man and fight the good fight.


    Offline Sigismund

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 05:33:53 PM »
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  • If you really do feel suicidal, please talk to a professional.  Go the the ER at a local hospital if necessary.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline curiouscatholic23

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #6 on: August 27, 2011, 05:57:22 PM »
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  • No I don't feel suicidal, primarily because I know it is a one-way ticket to hell. Im sorry if I startled you, that wasn't my intention. My intention was to show just how horrible the feeling it is for someone who goes to the latin mass consistently and even has enough knowledge about Vatican II to call himself a sedevacantist, to fall so low with the sins of the flesh and put himself into Satan's hands. What a horrible feeling, I hope I never have it again.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 06:45:04 PM »
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  •  Dear Curiouscatholic23,

    There no words to adequately express how much I sympathize with your predicament. I completely understand what you are going through, but I must admit that I am not able to write the words whereby to console you. All I can do is give you some perspectives drawn from personal experience.

    1) The sins of the flesh are not the most grievous: Last Sunday's Gospel lesson taught us that, as Cardinal Schuster explained in his commentary thereupon:

    Quote
    Pride, of which the Pharisee is a symbol, is a kind of spiritual leprosy, even more dangerous in its consequences than are the temptations of the flesh. These latter stain the body, whereas pride stains the soul; these can be subdued by the penances and by the passing of years, but the former does not die even on the bed of death, nor is it consumed even by the flames of hell.

    * The Sacramentary (Liber Sacramentorum): Historical and Liturgical Notes on the Roman Missal, Vol. III (Parts 5 and 6), trans. Arthur Levelis-Marke. New York: Benziger Brothers, 1927.


    As experience often teaches us, spiritual pride may in fact lead an individual to a practical nihilism wherein he becomes dissipated and dissolute and delivers himself over to unbridled licentiousness.

    If you effectively subdue motions of pride by works of self-denial, penance and charity, then you will be given the requisites graces to subdue the motions of concupiscence.

    2) The reason why certain souls are afflicted with temptations against the flesh is so that they be preserved from succuмbing to self-delusions of spiritual vainglory. A soul who is especially afflicted by concupiscence is less likely to think himself holier than he is, and thus does not take it upon himself to become a sort of "lay theologian" of sorts. Better to face the temptations of the flesh, than to reprobate oneself to hell for succuмbing to illusions of grandeur and self-apotheosis.

    3) Emotions are neuro-chemical processes that of themselves avail to nothing. It is the will that determines the merit or culpability of an act. You may feel saddened by a fall, but this must not distract you from the acts of will whereby you love God enough to see the hatefulness of sin, to detest it, to resolve never to commit it again for anything in the world, and have the intention to forthwith go to Confession. This is true contrition. All the sorrow of the world without these acts of will shall never amount to contrition. So stop feeling sorry and be sorry for having offending God, despised and abused holy grace, for having coinquinated yourself and others, and ultimately for not loving Him enough...

    Emotions help the will, but oftentimes many confuse emotion with the act of will, and this is a problem for souls stricken with scruples on one hand, and those souls that have cultivated a lax conscience on the other hand.

    4) The following may help you, from the book Kyrie Eleison: Two Hundred Litanies with Historico-Liturgical Introduction and Notes by Rev. Fr. Benjamin Francis Musser, O.F.M. (Westminster, MD: The Newman Bookshop, 1944):




    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 06:54:21 PM »
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  • Regarding those who are "beginners" in the interior life and those who do not advance from the first stage of the spiritual life, Rev. Fr. Reginald Garrigou Lagrange teaches:

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    The first conversion is the transition from the state of sin to the state of grace, whether by baptism or, in the case of those who have lost their baptismal innocence, by contrition and sacramental absolution. Theologians explain at length in the treatise on grace what precisely justification is in an adult, and how and why it requires, under the influence of grace, acts of faith, hope, charity and contrition, or detestation of sin committed [cf. Council of Trent (Denzinger, 798) and St. Thomas, I-IIae, Q. cxiii art. 1-8 inclusive]. This purgation by the infusion of habitual grace and the remission of sins is in a sense the type or pattern of all the subsequent purgations of the soul, all of which involve acts of faith, hope, charity and contrition. Often this first conversion comes about after a more or less painful crisis in which the soul progressively detaches itself from the spirit of the world, like the prodigal son, to come back to God. It is God always who makes the first step towards us, as the Church has taught against the Semi-Pelagians; it is He who inspires the good movement in us, that initial goodwill which is the beginning of salvation. For this purpose, by His grace and by the trials to which He subjects the soul, He as it were "tills" the ground of the soul before sowing the divine seed within it; He drives a first furrow therein, a furrow upon which He will later return, to dig more deeply still and to eradicate the weeds which remain; much as the vine-tender does with the vine when it has already grown, to free it from all that may retard its development.

    After this first conversion, if the soul does not fall again into mortal sin, or at all events if it rises from sin without delay and seeks to make progress,* it is then in the purgative way of beginners.

    The mentality or spiritual state of the beginner may be best described in function of that which is primary in the order of goodness, namely his knowledge of God and of himself, and his love of God. Admittedly there are some beginners who are specially favored, like many great saints who have had greater grace in their early beginnings than many who are proficients; just as in the natural order there are infant prodigies. But after all, they are children, and it is possible to say in general in what the mentality of beginners consists. They begin to know themselves, to see their poverty and their neediness, and they have every day to examine their conscience to correct their faults. At the same time they begin to know God, in the mirror of the things of sense, in the things of nature or in the parables, for example, in those of the Prodigal Son, the Lost Sheep or the Good Shepherd. Theirs is a direct movement up to God, not unlike that of the swallow when it rises up to the heavens uttering a cry.** In this state there is a love of God proportionate to the soul's knowledge; beginners who are truly generous love God with a holy fear of sin, which causes them to avoid mortal sin and even deliberate venial sin, by dint of mortifying the senses and concupiscence in its various forms.

    When they have been engaged for a certain time in this generous effort they are usually rewarded by some sensible consolations in prayer or in the study of divine things. In this way God wins over their sensibility, for it is by their sensibility that they chiefly live; He directs it away from dangerous things towards Himself. At this stage the generous beginner already loves God ' with all his heart, ' but not yet with all his soul, with all his strength, or with all his mind. Spiritual writers often mention the milk of consolation which is given at this period. St. Paul himself says[I Cor. ch iii., 2 ]: "I could not speak to you as unto spiritual but as unto carnal, as unto little ones in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not meat; for you were not able as yet."

    But what happens, usually, at this stage? Practically all beginners, when they receive these sensible consolations, take too much complacency in them; they regard them as though they were an end in themselves, and not merely a means to higher things. They then become an obstacle to their progress; they are an occasion of spiritual greed, of curiosity in the things of God, of an unconscious pride which leads the recipient to talk about his favors and, under a pretext of doing good to others, to pose as master in the spiritual life. Then, as St. John of the Cross says, [Dark Night, Book I, ch. i-vii]  the seven capital sins make their appearance, no longer in their gross form, but in the order of spiritual things, as so many obstacles to a true and solid piety.

    Accordingly, by a logical and vital transition, a second conversion becomes necessary, described by St. John of the Cross under the name of the passive purgation of the senses. Of this he says that it is "common and comes to many; these are beginners," and that its purpose is to lead them into "the road and way of the spirit, which is that of progressives and proficients... the way of infused contemplation, wherewith God Himself feeds and refreshes the soul" [Dark Night, Book I, ch. viii; Book I, ch. xiv]. This purgation is characterized by a prolonged aridity of the senses, in which the beginner is deprived of all those sensible consolations in which he had taken too great complacency. If in the midst of this aridity there is an intense desire for God, a desire that He should reign in us, together with a fear of offending Him, then this is a second sign that it is a divine purgation. Still more so, if to this intense desire for God there is added a difficulty in praying according to the discursive method, and an inclination towards the prayer of simple regard, with love. This is the third sign that the second conversion is in progress, and that the soul is being raised up to a higher form of life, that of the illuminative way.

    If the soul endures this purgation satisfactorily its sensibility becomes more and more subject to the spirit; the soul is cured of its spiritual greed and of the pride that had led it to pose as a master; it learns better to recognize its own neediness. Not infrequently there arise other difficulties pertaining to this process of purgation, for example, in study, in our relations with persons to whom we are too greatly attached, and from whom God now swiftly and painfully detaches our affections. At this time, too, there arise often enough grave temptations against chastity and patience, temptations which God allows so that by reaction against them these virtues, which reside in the sensible part of our nature, may become. more firmly and truly rooted in us. Illness, too, may be sent to try us during this period.
    In this crisis God again tills the ground of the soul, digging deeper in the furrow which He has already driven at the moment of our first conversion: He is uprooting the evil weeds, or the relics of sin, "reliquias peccati."

    This crisis is not without its dangers, like the crisis of the fourteenth or fifteenth year in the development of our natural life. Some prove faithless to their vocation. Some souls do not pass through this crisis in such a way as to enter upon the illuminative way of proficients, and they remain in a state of tepidity; they are not in the proper sense beginners, rather they are retarded or tepid souls. In their case, the words of the Scriptures are fulfilled: "They have not known the time of their visitation;" they have failed to recognize the time of their second conversion. These souls, especially if they are in the religious or the priestly state, are not tending to perfection as they should, and unconsciously they are stopping others from doing so, placing serious obstacles in the way of those who really desire to make progress. Communal prayer, instead of becoming contemplative, becomes mechanical; instead of prayer supporting the soul, the soul has to support and endure prayer. Such prayer may even, unhappily, become anti-contemplative!
    In those, on the contrary, who pass through this crisis successfully it is, according to St. John of the Cross, the beginning of infused contemplation of the mysteries of faith, accompanied by an intense desire for perfection. Then the beginner, under the illumination especially of the gift of understanding [Dark Night, Book I, ch. ix], becomes a proficient and enters upon the illuminative way; he recognizes his own poverty, sees the emptiness of honors and dignities and the things of this world; he detaches himself from these entanglements.

    * St. Thomas (III, Q. lxxxix, art. 5, ad 3) explains that recovery is proportionate to the fervour of contrition. That is to say, if a person had two talents before committing a mortal sin, and if his contrition has been only barely sufficient and imperfect in relation to his former goodness, he will perhaps recover only one talent (resurgit in minori caritate). To recover the same degree of grace and charity which he had lost he will need a more fervent contrition, proportionate to the sin and to his former sanctity.

    ** The beginner sometimes considers the goodness of God also in the mysteries of salvation; but he is not yet familiar with these and it is not an exercise which is proper to his condition.

    The Three Ways of the Spiritual Life. London: Burns Oates & Washbourne, 1938.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline ora pro me

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #9 on: August 27, 2011, 07:30:20 PM »
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  • Excellent advice from all your friends here.  Your comment about suicidal thoughts had me worried about you and I am relieved to read your recent comment above, but since you did write a suicidal thought here, I'd like to second Sigismund's advice that if or when you (or any dear readers here) ever have suicidal thoughts, please pick up the phone or go to the ER, call a priest or a loved one, or call one of the anomymous phone lines that have counselors 24/7.  A counselor on a help line will help you at that moment and also give you a phone number to call for counseling, often free from your local Catholic charity.  Assuming that you have a Traditional Catholic priest, call him first and ask him to hear your confession as soon as possible and then continue to go to confession as frequently as possible.  

    We Catholics have the best counselors in our priests.  A good confessor can come to know you very well and will help you to avoid sin and grow in your spiritual life and counsel you on how to avoid sin. Don't forget that the priest has already heard anything that you have to tell him and you are confessing your sins to Our Lord anyway.  Seek the advice of your confessor both in confession and out of confession.

    Pray the daily Rosary, say your 3 Hail Marys in the morning and at night and seek refuge in the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Read The Glories of Mary and you will read the stories there of souls who were saved by Our Blessed Mother because of their perseverance in saying their daily 3 Hail Marys.  The devil does indeed go around like a raging lion and you must turn frequently to Mary as a sailor looks to the North Star.  

    Mary is your Star of the Sea, the Refuge of Sinners, Our Lady of Good Counsel, Our Mother of Perpetual Help.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 10:38:04 PM »
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  •    
    Quote
    I guess the worst part about sins of the flesh in addition to angering Our Lord, is the fact that the secular women who I sinned with will most likely be in hell partly on my account becuase they lack the faith to begin with and don't believe in confession. Where as I, who knew the faith, should have known better but kept sinning anyway.


      Well, St. Mary Magdalene did scandalize many and made them sin. But then she converted and converted many. All people who sin affect and scandalize others.
       Please beware: despair is a far greater sin than adultery, rape and any other sin of flesh. Too much desire to be a Saint in a short time is from the devil.


    Offline Zenith

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    lonelinessfalling into hellGod forgiving me?
    « Reply #11 on: August 27, 2011, 11:42:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: curiouscatholic23
    At what point does God give up on a man who suffers from vile and wicked sins of the flesh with women, particularly over the internet? I went the last 7 months from committing sins of impurity by saying the daily rosary. Then over the last few weeks I developed extreme spiritual pride and started to condemn my whole novus ordo family. At one point I even had the audacity to think I was called to the priesthood. But the other day I surrendered to my most wicked and vile desires committed the same sins I used to committ months ago that I detested. I woke up today and wanted to kill myself. I don't know how this should affect my vocation- on one hand I want to get married for the primary purpose of raising children and sharing my life with somebody, and on the other hand I feel that I should be a monk to make up for all these horrible sins I keep committing over and over and over again. Im at the age now (mid twenties) where I think part of the problem is that I am indecisive about my vocation and the devil knows this so he compounds the stress through these temptations. Any advice would be helpfull. Is it ever acceptable to be a monk because you feel so horrible about your previous sins that you feel you have to pay God back by giving him your life on this earth, so you can attain eternal salvation?


    Hello Curiouscatholic.
    Even though you fall and fall badly, never give into depair. The one and only thing to do is to prepare yourself for confession as best you can and go as soon as you can.

    The feeling of relief and freedom from sin after far outweighs the strength of the deepest of depressions.

    Make a firm act and resolution to avoid all occasions of sin. The internet can be a huge trap that can snare you very quickly especially youtube.

    I think if you find it very hard then I would suggest seriously cutting down time spent on the internet to remove the temptation or if you can, use the internet only in the company of others.

    I don't know your situation though I would advise you to find other hobbies that get you away from being online a lot. Go out and exercise and do something to take your mind as far from impurity as possible.

    Try and socialise more in good circles to develop good social skills so that you also increase your chances of meeting someone as a potential spouse if your vocation is to marry.

    I'm sure you know how easily and quickly it is to be trapped by impurity when in the wrong place and how hard it is to pull back when it grabs hold of you so run from it like you are running from it like you would if someone wanted to kill you.

    When ever you have even the remotest of impure thoughts, say a quick and well meant, "Jesus and Mary help me!"

    Even though it is very hard, try when you look at any female to imagine the perfect female, Our Lady, and hopefully that will help you to run with horror from any impure thought.

    God bless and never give up hope or prayer.