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Author Topic: Lent fast is 40 days not two days  (Read 3172 times)

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Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2022, 03:46:09 AM »
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  • What is difference between novus Ordo fasting guidelines and the traditional way?   

    We do know that the purpose of the novus ordo was to water down the faith.  We know the novus Ordo was created with the help of radical liberal Protestant ministers and rabbis. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #16 on: March 01, 2022, 05:08:45 AM »
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  • What is difference between novus Ordo fasting guidelines and the traditional way? 

    We do know that the purpose of the novus ordo was to water down the faith.  We know the novus Ordo was created with the help of radical liberal Protestant ministers and rabbis.
    NOers are supposed to abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, that's it. I don't really know any NOers any more, but the ones I knew never fasted or abstained. If they know the law at all, they couldn't care less.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #17 on: March 01, 2022, 06:19:01 AM »
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  • NOers are supposed to abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, that's it. I don't really know any NOers any more, but the ones I knew never fasted or abstained. If they know the law at all, they couldn't care less.
    When I was a NOer, I certainly fasted and abstained on those two days, as did my husband.  I think those that identify as "conservative" NOers do in fact do this.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #18 on: March 01, 2022, 06:46:35 AM »
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  • When we were novus Ordo, we fasted on Ash Wednesday and every Friday including Good Friday.  Stations of the Cross in different parishes too.

    Since Traditional Catholic we have been fasting all days of lent including Sunday’s.  I felt guilty about having a donut during the week. We did go to st Patrick’s day if fell on on Saturday 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #19 on: March 01, 2022, 07:02:56 AM »
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  • NOers are supposed to abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, that's it. I don't really know any NOers any more, but the ones I knew never fasted or abstained. If they know the law at all, they couldn't care less.

    They're supposed to abstain on Fridays in Lent and then fast + abstain on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #20 on: March 01, 2022, 07:04:14 AM »
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  • Oh, so one gains more merit when one acts under compulsion than when one acts with free will?

    Not "compulsion", but obedience.  Obedience is an act of free will.  Yes, absolutely, one gains more merit from obedience than works undertaken of one's own will.  Submission of the will is the greatest mortification.

    You really should stop posting.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #21 on: March 01, 2022, 07:07:15 AM »
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  • This is a common theme in most of the lives of the saints.

    But notice how this poster spun "obedience" as "compulsion".  Connotation of "compulsion" is that it's an involuntary act, not a huamn act, whereas obedience is a free human act.  And submission of the will in obedience is considered the greatest of all mortifications ... by all the saints.

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #22 on: March 01, 2022, 08:28:16 AM »
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  • Not "compulsion", but obedience.  Obedience is an act of free will.  Yes, absolutely, one gains more merit from obedience than works undertaken of one's own will.  Submission of the will is the greatest mortification.

    You really should stop posting.
    If you freely choose to do a more difficult "penance" than what you are compelled to do by a Church precept, you will gain more merit than if you obediently follow a Church precept to do the same work. Your freedom to encuмber yourself to do something more pleasing to God than is required by precept, is what Jesus's moral teaching is all about.

    This is why the evangelical counsels are voluntary and not forced on all Catholics. Those counsels are the "better path," but one gains more merit ("to be perfect," Matthew 19:21) because of the choice and the freedom to choose. Lay Catholics are held to a lower standard (Matthew 19:16), i.e., to simply "keep the Commandments." 

    We don't have a choice to keep the Commandments, we are compelled under pain of mortal sin to keep them. We do have a choice to voluntarily bind ourselves to the evangelical counsels on our quest to "be perfect." Similarly, with fasting/abstinence, by choosing the more difficult penance, when we are not compelled by precept to do so, we will gain more merit.

    I promise to stop posting after you learn Catholicism 101. Deal?


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #23 on: March 01, 2022, 10:17:29 AM »
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  • Quote
    If you freely choose to do a more difficult "penance" than what you are compelled to do by a Church precept, you will gain more merit than if you obediently follow a Church precept to do the same work. Your freedom to encuмber yourself to do something more pleasing to God than is required by precept, is what Jesus's moral teaching is all about.
    Maybe, maybe not.  It depends on the person and the situation.  The devil can tempt us to excess and pride, even in penances, as many stories of the saints tell us.  Obedience to a superior is considered a much higher virtue than voluntary penance because in obedience there is no danger of self, no danger of pride.  Sometimes God is more pleased at accepting things beyond our control as a penance coming directly from Him (i.e. a months-in-advance planned party gets cancelled at the last minute) vs some penance we make up for ourselves, which can cause us to think ourselves "holy" because we are doing "extra".


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #24 on: March 01, 2022, 10:19:26 AM »
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    Fast & Abstinence
    Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are obligatory days of fasting and abstinence for Catholics. In addition, Fridays during Lent are obligatory days of abstinence.
    For members of the Latin Catholic Church, the norms on fasting are obligatory from age 18 until age 59. When fasting, a person is permitted to eat one full meal, as well as two smaller meals that together are not equal to a full meal. The norms concerning abstinence from meat are binding upon members of the Latin Catholic Church from age 14 onwards.
    Members of the Eastern Catholic Churches are to observe the particular law of their own sui iurisChurch.




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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #25 on: March 01, 2022, 10:33:06 AM »
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  • How lame and watered down the novus Ordo fast guidelines.  In Ireland , they used to have strict fast including babies and the elderly. 

    I’m going to try a stricter fast like my ancestors.  Oatmeal no sugar or milk, soup or veggie meal. No, meat, eggs, oil during week. Maybe eggs on Sunday.

    Praying the rosary and read my bible. 

    I’m going to be kinder to my family to be an example of Christianity and pray for extreme patience when associating with them.  If they are not acting good, avoid and pray for them.

    And no donuts.  I just split a fastnacht after we pray the rosary. 
    May God bless you and keep you


    Online SolHero

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #26 on: March 01, 2022, 01:27:29 PM »
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  • I'm new to Traditional Catholicism and this would be for me, my first Lent after discovering Tradition. As a NO, my family would abstain from meat on all Fridays, not just lent. For Lent we also would fast from something else like soda, coffee, beer/alcohol, desserts, etc. I agree that NO fast guidelines are watered down and for me, pointless. Even secular people who practice intermittent fasting have a stricter fast than the NO fasting guidelines suggest.

    Do you know of any tips for fasting as a Traditional Catholic?

    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #27 on: March 01, 2022, 01:37:42 PM »
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  • I'm new to Traditional Catholicism and this would be for me, my first Lent after discovering Tradition. As a NO, my family would abstain from meat on all Fridays, not just lent. For Lent we also would fast from something else like soda, coffee, beer/alcohol, desserts, etc. I agree that NO fast guidelines are watered down and for me, pointless. Even secular people who practice intermittent fasting have a stricter fast than the NO fasting guidelines suggest.

    Do you know of any tips for fasting as a Traditional Catholic?
    It is especially weak when you realize giving something of importance to you for lent is not required by canon law.
    I recant many opinions on the crisis in the Church and moral theology that I have espoused on here from at least 2019-2021 don't take my postings from that time as well as 2022 possibly too seriously.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #28 on: March 01, 2022, 02:00:04 PM »
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  • I'm new to Traditional Catholicism and this would be for me, my first Lent after discovering Tradition. As a NO, my family would abstain from meat on all Fridays, not just lent. For Lent we also would fast from something else like soda, coffee, beer/alcohol, desserts, etc. I agree that NO fast guidelines are watered down and for me, pointless. Even secular people who practice intermittent fasting have a stricter fast than the NO fasting guidelines suggest.

    Do you know of any tips for fasting as a Traditional Catholic?
    Two snacks and one full meal per day, no food in between. No meat on Fridays. Liquids are fine, water recommended. No fasting on Sundays

    I'm giving a "partial" dopplebock (beer) fast a go this year, meaning one full meal and one beer for each "snack". :cowboy:
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Lent fast is 40 days not two days
    « Reply #29 on: March 01, 2022, 02:02:56 PM »
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  • They're just being consistent here.  If the V2 papal claimants are legitimate popes, then they have the power to dispense from the fast, and so the SSPX cannot impose upon consciences under pain of mortal sin something which a legitimate pope has said isn't binding under pain of sin.  It all boils down to whether you accept the V2 popes as popes.  Heck, even simple parish priests could dispense individual faithful from fasting depending on their circuмstances.

    Unfortunately, if we fast when it's not binding, there's one particular mortification lacking there, which is probably the most important one of all, mortification of the will.  It's commonly reported that even people who love seafood find it difficult to abstain from meat on Fridays.  People who think nothing of just eating one meal a day most of the time somehow find it difficult to fast on the days prescribed.  That's because it's one thing to do it because you feel like it and quite another because you are required to under obedience, and it is the will that is being mortified.

    1) If you're a dogmatic sedevacantist, then these would be binding for you under pain of mortal sin.
    2) If you're dogmatic R&R, then these would not be binding under pain of mortal sin.
    3) If you're in doubt, then a doubtful law does not apply (lex dubia non obligat), so technically speaking you're not bound under pain of mortal sin either.

    So it's really only the dogmatic sedevacantists who are bound under pain of mortal sin to keep the Traditional fast.

    One would be foolish not to perform the Traditional fast, but only the Church can bind consciences, and that's one of my biggest beefs with some of the dogmatic types who go around excommunicating people.
    So if I understand your view correctly, while you personally would follow the traditional fast and would consider that to be the only wise option, you presumably wouldn’t confess it as a mortal sin if you had meat on a Lenten Thursday, since you aren’t certain on the pope question, correct?