Author Topic: Why I started Cathinfo (Read 5907 times)

gilbertgea · « **Reply #30 on:** February 11, 2007, 02:16:44 PM »

'OK, what I was trying to say was that I can't stand people trying to compromise between two things that are diametrically opposed.'

Well, welcome to Planet Earth, 2007! :smile: That is why 'conservative Catholicism' and 'liberal Catholicism' are really not Catholic: they are trying to reconcile truth with error, in varying degrees, which is of course impossible.

'This is why I have more respect for atheists than for liberal Catholics: at least the atheists are consistent. By far the second-most plausible way of life, after Catholicism, is undiluted secularism with no morality or God. There's no way to justify some midway point.'

That is a very astute observation. One is either right, or wrong: there is no 'sort-of-right'.

'But there is a whole lot of that going around these days, more oxymorons than you can shake a stick at. Liberal Catholic, ʝʊdɛօ Christian, to name just a couple.'

I usually stop listening to anyone citing anything that is 'Judaeo-Christian'. Such a term betrays monumental stupidity and usually invincible ignorance.

'It's not so much an ideology with them as an all out grasping at anything they want. So they stand firmly on both sides of the fence. Double minded about one thing they will soon be double minded about other things, shifting from one position to other according to whatever serves them at the moment.'

It's 'Cafeteria Catholicism'; i.e., pick and choose whatever one likes and discard the rest. In a word, it is Heresy and the practitioners are Heretics.

Trinity · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2007, 02:48:05 PM »

O, contrare, mon frere, student. If Catholicism was just a religion, it would be exactly as you said. The quintessential difference is the Trinity. They are "the power thereof". And they reside in the sacraments. There is so much power and healing in the sacraments. If you haven't experienced it, I'm sure it would all be ritual.

As for what the world holds being enough to make you happy, that is true---in your youth. But the day comes for everyone who lives long enough, that all these things become empty and meaningless and you are hungry for something more. That more can only be gotten from God, not religion, per se. As St. Augustine said, "We were made for God and we are restless until we rest in Him." It's not something that anyone can give you, student; it's not something you can get by going through the motions (although keeping the commandments are necessary.) The Church and religion are only guides.

I recognize what you are saying, but keep going, because the best is yet to come.

Ancilla_Indigna · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2007, 05:15:16 PM »

Quote from: Trinity

But the day comes for everyone who lives long enough, that all these things become empty and meaningless and you are hungry for something more

Lives long enough...? Grace isn't a matter of time, it's a matter of disposition. It exists within us whether or not we "experience" it in the sense of notions, feelings, even signal graces. Supernatural grace changes who we are, and disposes us to desire unity with God. The more we have it, the more we are willing to give up for it.

Each of us knows not the day nor the hour we will be called into judgement. We must be like the virgins awaiting the bridegroom, with our oil at hand, wicks trimmed and laterns burning, anticipating our Lord at all moments, without presuming on the time we have left.

On a digression, for all those interested: Read James 3.

Ancilla_Indigna · « **Reply #33 on:** February 11, 2007, 05:25:54 PM »

JHS

Dear Student,

You wrote,

Quote

So then the question becomes, why be Catholic, and I'm well aware of the apologetic tradition, but I've come to think of it this way: the Catholic religion spread by civilization, and civilization is basically a history of nonsense, by which I mean essentially wars and killing.

Truth exists on its own, whether or not you or I have ceased to exist. Jesus Christ is He who Is. He is Truth. The fullness of the Truth exists only in the Roman Catholic Church handed down by the Apostles, with the Holy Ghost as its Paraclete. The Church is not based on civilization, but the Church (capital "C") is comprised of the the Church Militant, the Church Suffering and the Church Triumphant. It is based on Dogmas that do not change with civilization. These Dogmas are revealed by God. One becomes Catholic because it is the only Church that has the fullness of the Truth and the 7 Sacraments to get us into Heaven. It is the only Church that has the true Presence of Our Lord in Holy Communion. It is NOT and easy religion, but it is the true one.

Trinity · « **Reply #34 on:** February 11, 2007, 05:48:19 PM »

I said "lives long enough" because some people die before they reach that point of satiation with the world. Or do you know something I don't?

student · « **Reply #35 on:** February 11, 2007, 05:59:22 PM »

First of all, I'm not arguing against the Church. I'm just trying to push things as far as possible so that we can get as deeply into the truth as possible.

Trinity, you missed my point, I think. When I gave the quote about finding the meaning of life under a rock, I specifically, and rather obviously, meant that the meaning of life is NOT to be found in material things, but one does not need to be religious to know this. I was just pointing out how much happiness one can find in the purely natural state, without reference to religion. Augustine was saying he couldn't find God in material things, and I didn't contradict that.

As for the sacraments, of course I've received them many times, but you cannot feel anything in them. It might even be heresy to say you can, since they operate at the level of grace. That's why for me the experience of them does not affect the question of truth. A muslim can say he feels a certain way after praying to Allah; that hardly proves Islam.

Ancilla, of course the civilization that one is in does not affect the truth of Catholicism, in the strict logical sense. But we may as well say that it does, since Catholicism depended on the late Roman Empire to prop it up and medieval Christendom to sustain it for a millenium. The church is very much based on civilization (in a practical sense; I know theologically it's not) because without Constantine, without Charlemagne, without medieval kings, without rulers who supported missionaries to the New World and Asia, where would it be? How would it have spread? These things would have been impossible without civilization. If you are a Catholic you are committed to Western Civilization. But why should we presume that civilization to be different from every other civilization in the history of the world?

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #36 on:** February 11, 2007, 06:05:21 PM »

Quote from: student

Ancilla, of course the civilization that one is in does not affect the truth of Catholicism, in the strict logical sense. But we may as well say that it does, since Catholicism depended on the late Roman Empire to prop it up and medieval Christendom to sustain it for a millenium. The church is very much based on civilization (in a practical sense; I know theologically it's not) because without Constantine, without Charlemagne, without medieval kings, without rulers who supported missionaries to the New World and Asia, where would it be? How would it have spread? These things would have been impossible without civilization. If you are a Catholic you are committed to Western Civilization. But why should we presume that civilization to be different from every other civilization in the history of the world?

It was already spreading throughout the world before the Roman empire accepted it, the apostles where supported by no one but God and yet they where the greatest missionaries the Church has ever known. It was the Church which proped the Roman Empire up not the other way round, likewise with medieval Christendom.

The reason Catholic's are committed to Western civilisation is because the the Catholic church is responsible for building Western civilisation.

Brian · « **Reply #37 on:** February 11, 2007, 06:09:57 PM »

Folks, why are you all so concerned with Tracey Lopez and her website? This thread appears to be nothing more than Matthew taking a swipe at her and promoting himself.

Pax Christi

Brian

Matthew · « **Reply #38 on:** February 11, 2007, 06:22:16 PM »

You'll notice I have long since "moved on" from the Fisheaters issue.

I can't control what others post about (in fact, I wish to leave this forum as open as possible)

So I agree with you -- it's time to move on. I started this thread, and I am going to end this thread.

If anyone wants to start another topic about FE they are welcome to do so, but it won't be my thread.

Just to clarify -- the last umpteen posts have been about a whole different topic -- Having the whole truth vs. having some natural truths.

I welcome everyone to continue discussing the topic here:
http://www.cathinfo.com/bb/index.php?a=topic&t=1526#p3

But since I don't want it to look like we have 5 pages of discussion about Fisheaters, I'm locking this topic.

God bless,

Matthew