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Author Topic: Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction  (Read 1136 times)

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Offline holysoulsacademy

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Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
« on: October 28, 2014, 01:55:17 PM »
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  • +AMDG+

    Please bear with me everyone, but I am having a difficult time grasping the whole supplied jurisdiction argument that all non Novus Ordo priests and Bishops claim they have in order to dispense the Sacraments.

    Question 1:
    Who has jurisdiction over me so that I may receive pardon for my sins when I go to confession?

    Question 2:
    Who gives them that jurisdiction?

    Question 3:
    How does Fr. "Traditional non Novus Ordo Priest" get jurisdiction?

    Question 4:
    Who says Fr. "Traditional non Novus Ordo Priest" get jurisdiction?

    Question 5:
    Do I have the Right as a Catholic by virtue of my Baptism to ask a priest to have jurisdiction over me?

    Pax Christi!


    Offline Ambrose

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 06:32:35 PM »
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  • HolySoulsAcademy,

    My answers in blue.  I hope this helps.

    Quote
    Please bear with me everyone, but I am having a difficult time grasping the whole supplied jurisdiction argument that all non Novus Ordo priests and Bishops claim they have in order to dispense the Sacraments.

    Question 1:
    Who has jurisdiction over me so that I may receive pardon for my sins when I go to confession?


    There are very few bishops on the world left with habitual jurisdiction.  When you go to confession to a priest without faculties (all traditional priests), jurisdiction is supplied so long as the conditions are met.

    Quote
    Question 2:
    Who gives them that jurisdiction?


    Jurisdiction comes a bishop when he is assigned his territory (diocese) by the pope.  There is no other way to obtain jurisdiction.  A priest who hears confessions must be permitted to do so by the local ordinary.  Traditional priests do not have any continuous jurisdiction, each act is separate and individually supplied by the Church so long as the conditions are met.

    Quote
    Question 3:
    How does Fr. "Traditional non Novus Ordo Priest" get jurisdiction?


    He does not have faculties to hear confessions.  He cannot obtain it either unless a diocesan bishop gives him faculties, and such faculties do not extend outside of that diocese.

    Let it also be said, that I do not believe in the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo bishops, so I do not believe they can give faculties.  


    Quote
    Question 4:
    Who says Fr. "Traditional non Novus Ordo Priest" get jurisdiction?


    It's impossible.  This is an indisputable point.  Priests do not get jurisdiction anyway, just bishops.  Such authority to hear confessions is delegated to priests by the diocesan bishop.  A bishop cannot have jurisdiction unless he is the legitimate diocesan bishop.  Heretics, by divine law automatically lose all jurisdiction.

    Quote
    Question 5:
    Do I have the Right as a Catholic by virtue of my Baptism to ask a priest to have jurisdiction over me?


    No.  You can willfully place your trust in anyone, including a priest, but this is not binding on you, and you can rescind your wilful submission at any time.  

    Only those who have true authority over you can bind you, no one else can.  If you go to a traditional priest for confession, you are agreeing to be bound by him in his binding and loosening of your sins, and his penance.  But, this act only binds you because the Church supplies jurisdiction to him for this specific act.  Outside of confession, this priest has no authority over you.

    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline poche

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 10:57:27 PM »
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  • Question 1:
    Who has jurisdiction over me so that I may receive pardon for my sins when I go to confession?

    The bishop of the place where you are going to confession.

    Offline poche

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 11:01:22 PM »
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  • Question 2:
    Who gives them that jurisdiction?

    The bishop of that place gives him jurisdiction and the bishop recieves his jurisdiction directly from the Pope

    Offline poche

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 11:04:21 PM »
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  • Question 3:
    How does Fr. "Traditional non Novus Ordo Priest" get jurisdiction?

    If he is not recognized by the bishop then he only has jurisdiction when there is imminent danger of death.


    Offline poche

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 11:08:19 PM »
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  • Question 4:
    Who says Fr. "Traditional non Novus Ordo Priest" get jurisdiction?

    The bishop of the place where he operates can make an arrangement with the "traditional non Niovus Ordo' priest to recieve jurisdiction.

    Priests of the FSSP and the Institute of teh Good Shepherd and the Institute of Christ the King are all Non Novus Ordo priests who have been able to get jurisdiction so it is not impossible to recieve jurisdictiion from the diocesan bishop.  

    Offline poche

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 11:10:25 PM »
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  • Question 5:
    Do I have the Right as a Catholic by virtue of my Baptism to ask a priest to have jurisdiction over me?

    If by that you mean to recieve jurisdiction from a priest who does not have jurisdictioni from the diocesan bishop where the priest operates then the answer is no, not according to Canon Law.  

    Offline poche

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 11:17:58 PM »
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  • Quote:
    Question 3:
    How does Fr. "Traditional non Novus Ordo Priest" get jurisdiction?


    He does not have faculties to hear confessions.  He cannot obtain it either unless a diocesan bishop gives him faculties, and such faculties do not extend outside of that diocese.

    This answer is incorrect. Once the priest recieves gfaculties to hear confessions he recieves that faculty to hear them everywhere unless the local ordinary removes them and that removal only applies to his diocese.

    967 - §2. Those who possess the faculty of hearing confessions habitually whether by virtue of office or by virtue of the grant of an ordinary of the place of incardination or of the place in which they have a domicile can exercise that faculty everywhere unless the local ordinary has denied it in a particular case, without prejudice to the prescripts of ⇒ can. 974, §§2 and 3.



    Offline poche

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 11:20:25 PM »
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  • Quote:
    Question 4:
    Who says Fr. "Traditional non Novus Ordo Priest" get jurisdiction?


    It's impossible.  This is an indisputable point.  Priests do not get jurisdiction anyway, just bishops.  Such authority to hear confessions is delegated to priests by the diocesan bishop.  A bishop cannot have jurisdiction unless he is the legitimate diocesan bishop.  Heretics, by divine law automatically lose all jurisdiction.

    This is not true. It is possible for a non Novus Order priest to get jurisdiction. an arrangement would have to made with the diocesan bishop.  

    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #9 on: October 29, 2014, 12:43:18 AM »
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  • What is the form and matter for the sacrament?

    Offline poche

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    Jurisdiction, Supplied Jurisdiction
    « Reply #10 on: October 29, 2014, 01:09:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: holysoulsacademy
    What is the form and matter for the sacrament?


    Sacraments are signs which were instituted by Christ to give grace. They have form and matter. For example the matter for baptism is water. The form is the words that are said during the baptism as the water is being poured over the head, "I baptize you int the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." If you don't use either the correct form or matter then the sacrament is invalid.