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Author Topic: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives  (Read 4948 times)

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Offline TheRealMcCoy

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A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
« on: November 27, 2023, 11:19:54 AM »
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  • In the last month I had 3 major spine surgeries and was hospitalized for 2 weeks.  I had a carefully written Advance Directive on file for all my providers and the hospital.  My adult children were well informed of my wishes.

    While I was in the hospital, over the course of 4 days I was only given 50 oz of water, 32 oz of iced tea, and one can of Sprite to drink.  I had to request all of these as they were not freely offered.  I also had TWO IV lines in me yet NO fluids were being given.  As a result my blood pressure plummeted to 84/43 and I was very sick.  My pain medication was withheld because of the danger of death.  I begged for Tylenol and was given 1000 mg for pain from 3 major spine surgeries.  If you aren't familiar with nerve pain it can be compared to unmedicated childbirth pain without pause.  

    My sons confronted the nurse on call and she refused to take any action on her own volition.  We asked her how to raise my blood pressure to a normal level and she stated fluids would do it.  Then we asked why I wasn't receiving IV fluids even though I had two lines and she had no answer for me.  She then got the fluids hooked up and within 5 hours my blood pressure was stable and pain medication resumed. I am recovering at home now.

    It was obvious to me that that despite the fact I had written in my AD that fluids were never to be denied the hospital staff either hadn't read the docuмent or didn't have to follow it's instructions.  If my sons hadn't been there to confront the staff I might have died from hypovolemic shock brought on by dehydration.

    Please don't rely solely on docuмents to have your wishes honored.  You also need a trusted advocate who can speak for you and has the courage to confront the hospital when needed.

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #1 on: November 27, 2023, 01:16:31 PM »
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  • I’m glad you’re on the road to recovery and well enough to be outraged at the poor quality of care given you by this hospital.  I’m no lawyer, but it seems to me that the hospital and specific staff (nurse) need to be reported to whatever medical agency supervises them.  Living wills/ADs aren’t the guide for the type of nursing care given.  If death appears immanent, then they’re consulted.  There’s no excuse for the shoddy and endangering “care” given you.  
    This hospital needs to be reported for medical incompetence and violating your rights. Write down as many details as you and your family can remember, names, timelines, who said what to whom, what was done, not done…
    Then get yourself a good lawyer, even if only to properly report the information to the supervisory agency.  It has to get the attention of the proper authorities.
    If you wish to claim malpractice based upon the lawyer’s advice, it might behoove you to do for the protection of others who might not have advocates to stand up to the doctors. 


    Offline Marie Teresa

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #2 on: November 27, 2023, 01:53:26 PM »
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  • For many years I've heard it said that if you tell a hospital that you have a "living will" or "Advance Directive", that is code for them, so to speak, for "just let me die."  It is better to have a Protective Medical Decisions Docuмent (PMDD), aka Health Care Power of Attorney, with someone you trust.  When the hospital asks, "do you have a living will", you say, "No; I have a medical decision maker/power of attorney in the event that I can't make my own decisions."  Make sure your Medical Decision Maker has the same values as you, & knows a good Traditional Catholic priest whom they could consult on tricky issues.  You don't want an atheist etc., no matter how much you "trust" them in other ways. 

    Of course, now, post-Covid, who knows whether any of this makes a difference?  (i.e. I don't know if the hospitals will even respect your wishes etc.)

    There is an older thread on this topic:

    Living will directives for Traditional Catholics?

    further info on same thread


    p.s. Good comments by Seraphina above.

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #3 on: November 27, 2023, 03:14:54 PM »
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  • I second seraphina.
    This has nothing to with AD but incompetent and negligent care
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline Grace

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #4 on: November 27, 2023, 05:09:28 PM »
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  • In the last month I had 3 major spine surgeries and was hospitalized for 2 weeks.  
    Dear Real McCoy,
    I'm glad the hospital did not kill you! We need you here at CI! Thanks for the info and warning. :pray: I will be praying for your recovery.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #5 on: November 27, 2023, 08:50:29 PM »
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  • For many years I've heard it said that if you tell a hospital that you have a "living will" or "Advance Directive", that is code for them, so to speak, for "just let me die."  It is better to have a Protective Medical Decisions Docuмent (PMDD), aka Health Care Power of Attorney, with someone you trust.  When the hospital asks, "do you have a living will", you say, "No; I have a medical decision maker/power of attorney in the event that I can't make my own decisions."  Make sure your Medical Decision Maker has the same values as you, & knows a good Traditional Catholic priest whom they could consult on tricky issues.  You don't want an atheist etc., no matter how much you "trust" them in other ways.…
    ^^^^^ x 1000!

    If they offer their boiler plate docuмents, say, "Hell, no!!!"  Be sure—transplant teams are always hovering.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #6 on: November 28, 2023, 07:24:12 AM »
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  • For many years I've heard it said that if you tell a hospital that you have a "living will" or "Advance Directive", that is code for them, so to speak, for "just let me die."  It is better to have a Protective Medical Decisions Docuмent (PMDD), aka Health Care Power of Attorney, with someone you trust.  When the hospital asks, "do you have a living will", you say, "No; I have a medical decision maker/power of attorney in the event that I can't make my own decisions."  Make sure your Medical Decision Maker has the same values as you, & knows a good Traditional Catholic priest whom they could consult on tricky issues.  You don't want an atheist etc., no matter how much you "trust" them in other ways. 

    Of course, now, post-Covid, who knows whether any of this makes a difference?  (i.e. I don't know if the hospitals will even respect your wishes etc.)

    There is an older thread on this topic:

    Living will directives for Traditional Catholics?

    further info on same thread


    p.s. Good comments by Seraphina above.
    We have not created such a docuмent yet but was advised by a traditional priest to focus on just having a trusted advocate (there are two parts).  This way they have to speak with them for guidance, not just leave it to the details in a "docuмent".  Unfortunately, finding someone who is in line with our beliefs is a tough find.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #7 on: November 28, 2023, 07:25:00 AM »
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  • Dear Real McCoy,
    I'm glad the hospital did not kill you! We need you here at CI! Thanks for the info and warning. :pray: I will be praying for your recovery.
    Yes, glad to hear you are okay Real McCoy.  I was wondering where you were.


    Offline Marie Teresa

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #8 on: November 28, 2023, 08:59:48 AM »
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  • We have not created such a docuмent yet but was advised by a traditional priest to focus on just having a trusted advocate (there are two parts).  This way they have to speak with them for guidance, not just leave it to the details in a "docuмent".  

    Exactly.  Although it is best to have a legal docuмent to assign the trusted advocate. 


    Unfortunately, finding someone who is in line with our beliefs is a tough find.

    It can be difficult.  I wonder if the group that makes the PMDD would have any suggestions on that.  You could call them and ask what to do in a case like yours.  



    Offline Marie Teresa

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #9 on: November 28, 2023, 09:31:32 AM »
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  • I realized the link in my post above doesn't work.  It should take you here:

    https://www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/do-you-need-an-advance-directive/

    I noticed this comment: 

    "Sally’s twin sister, Sue, who is very close to Sally and with whom Sally had often discussed her wishes about health care, rushes to the hospital. She attempts to get information about Sally’s condition. She is told the law prohibits disclosing such information to her."

    That's another thing:  People need to give permission to their trusted agent(s) to have access to their medical information.  


    Offline Cera

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #10 on: November 28, 2023, 11:56:01 AM »
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  • Better than an Advance Directive is a Durable Power of Attorney. For more info on this, look into www.patientsrightscouncil.org

    Look for your state for the docuмents you need.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: A Warning about Living Wills/Advance Directives
    « Reply #11 on: November 29, 2023, 07:00:35 AM »
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  • Exactly.  Although it is best to have a legal docuмent to assign the trusted advocate.

    It can be difficult.  I wonder if the group that makes the PMDD would have any suggestions on that.  You could call them and ask what to do in a case like yours. 
    Yes, we would complete the first part of the docuмent to name the advocate, but not provide details in the second part.

    Thanks for the link MT....it seems to work for me.