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Author Topic: About SSPX Schools  (Read 1608 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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About SSPX Schools
« on: June 17, 2022, 08:09:57 AM »
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  • One curious thing about SSPX schools is that their handbooks state that students are required to attend all planned school activities and functions (eg., plays, field trips, etc).

    Conversely, the public schools always provide opt-out alternatives if a parent would prefer his child to not participate in this or that class or field trip.

    The SSPX schools argue that not only is there no need to opt-out of this or that activity, but go further still, and allege that doing so would be detrimental to the child (and therefore implicitly that the parent is acting against the child’s true best interest), adducing a whole array of concerns, such as causing division, building resentment in other kids when they see some don’t have to participate, causing confusion by contradicting the staff, etc.

    In the public schools, none of those concerns ever arise, but in the SSPX schools, it’s almost as if they know better than you what’s best for your child, and if you occasionally question participation in various plays, field trips, or whatever, then you have some kind of problem.

    I’m wondering what’s behind this demand for absolute conformity, and I’m wondering if it’s the fact that many SSPX vocations come out of the schools, and that being the case, they want to ensure that said vocations are already well-formed in habitual conformity and blind obedience?

    Shouldn’t final authority over the child’s formation rest with the parents?

    Obviously, the average SSPX school is vastly superior to public schools in practically every other aspect, but this demand for 100% conformity/participation (agreed to in advance, before you even know what activities will be scheduled) is a head scratcher.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #1 on: June 17, 2022, 08:56:56 AM »
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  • One curious thing about SSPX schools is that their handbooks state that students are required to attend all planned school activities and functions (eg., plays, field trips, etc).

    Conversely, the public schools always provide opt-out alternatives if a parent would prefer his child to not participate in this or that class or field trip.

    The SSPX schools argue that not only is there no need to opt-out of this or that activity, but go further still, and allege that doing so would be detrimental to the child (and therefore implicitly that the parent is acting against the child’s true best interest), adducing a whole array of concerns, such as causing division, building resentment in other kids when they see some don’t have to participate, causing confusion by contradicting the staff, etc.

    In the public schools, none of those concerns ever arise, but in the SSPX schools, it’s almost as if they know better than you what’s best for your child, and if you occasionally question participation in various plays, field trips, or whatever, then you have some kind of problem.

    I’m wondering what’s behind this demand for absolute conformity, and I’m wondering if it’s the fact that many SSPX vocations come out of the schools, and that being the case, they want to ensure that said vocations are already well-formed in habitual conformity and blind obedience?

    Shouldn’t final authority over the child’s formation rest with the parents?

    Obviously, the average SSPX school is vastly superior to public schools in practically every other aspect, but this demand for 100% conformity/participation (agreed to in advance, before you even know what activities will be scheduled) is a head scratcher.

    Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but shouldn't such activities be seen as an extension of the school's curriculum?  To my knowledge, if you're enrolled in any school, barring some highly mitigating circuмstances, you can't opt out of, for instance, English or math class, "because you don't like the way it's being taught", "it's a waste of time", "my child doesn't need to know that", and so on.

    I'm more inclined to side with the SSPX this time.  If you have an issue with how a school functions, and how they tend to the child's education --- of which these activities and field trips are presumably a part --- then don't send your child to that school.  You can't have everybody just "doing their own thing".

    A personal note, my son did not like participating in school plays, concerts, and so on, basically stage fright and anxiety.  He actually became physically ill and could not go to one of them.  When it happened a second time, the teacher did comment on it, and she was within her rights.  He wasn't forced to do it, but the message was clearly "this isn't quite the thing".  I had no issue with that assessment.


    Offline epiphany

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #2 on: June 17, 2022, 09:04:24 AM »
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  • Most, if not all, sspx schools are run by a priest.  "they know better than you what’s best for your child," is the absolute arrogance the sspx teaches its seminarians.

    It's not a "head scratcher" if you consider all the other things they demand and do which show the arrogance they have.  These are some of my experiences, and we don't utilize their schools:
    - demanding baptism within the first week of birth, regardless how the mother feels
    - demanding weekly catechism classes over testing a child for first holy communion 
    - demanding an age requirement for confirmation 
    - demanding full participation in all processions, especially of all altar boys, without exception, even for medical reasons
    - "obligatory" catechism classes for already married couples who did not have marriage prep with the sspx
    - refusing extreme unction to someone in ICU
    - mistreatment of altar boys
    - asking too many questions in confession, especially of females, when the form was done correctly
    - refusing to come bless our new home after we moved
    - 40+ min sermons
    - 3 hour high masses
    - expecting babies to be silent during such, or "take them out to the hall"

    A friend told me that Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer said the 4th commandment applies mainly to obedience to the priest!  

    With this kind of logic, it is no wonder they think they know better than the parent what is best for the child.

    It's not a "head scratcher".  It's arrogance. 

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #3 on: June 17, 2022, 09:09:58 AM »
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  • Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but shouldn't such activities be seen as an extension of the school's curriculum?  To my knowledge, if you're enrolled in any school, barring some highly mitigating circuмstances, you can't opt out of, for instance, English or math class, "because you don't like the way it's being taught", "it's a waste of time", "my child doesn't need to know that", and so on.

    I'm more inclined to side with the SSPX this time.  If you have an issue with how a school functions, and how they tend to the child's education --- of which these activities and field trips are presumably a part --- then don't send your child to that school.  You can't have everybody just "doing their own thing".

    A personal note, my son did not like participating in school plays, concerts, and so on, basically stage fright and anxiety.  He actually became physically ill and could not go to one of them.  When it happened a second time, the teacher did comment on it, and she was within her rights.  He wasn't forced to do it, but the message was clearly "this isn't quite the thing".  I had no issue with that assessment.
    "He wasn't forced to do it" is key here. 

    Field trips and extracurricular activities have always been and should always be optional.  

    I have never given anyone a blank check, especially regarding my children, and I never will.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #4 on: June 17, 2022, 09:15:17 AM »
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  • Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but shouldn't such activities be seen as an extension of the school's curriculum?  To my knowledge, if you're enrolled in any school, barring some highly mitigating circuмstances, you can't opt out of, for instance, English or math class, "because you don't like the way it's being taught", "it's a waste of time", "my child doesn't need to know that", and so on.

    I'm more inclined to side with the SSPX this time.  If you have an issue with how a school functions, and how they tend to the child's education --- of which these activities and field trips are presumably a part --- then don't send your child to that school.  You can't have everybody just "doing their own thing".

    SM-

    Nobody is talking opting out of math or English class, but plays and field trips.

    As a traditional Catholic school, one would normally feel confident that such plays and field trips would always be Catholic, and have no issue agreeing to the requirement to participate in advance of knowing what plays and field trips will be required.

    But what happens if you discover, as has  been reported by others on this forum, your child is unexpectedly asked to participate in an Oscar Wilde play (ie., something you would not have forseen at the time of enrollment)?

    Or what if the girls are Crossdressing as boys in those plays?  Or wear immodest costumes?

    What if the play is on the index (Les Miserable)?

    Or what if the field trip is to a planetarium?  Is one confident that the staff (imbued with Fr. Robinson’s old earth theory), will correct the tour guides errors? 

    What if a field trip is scheduled for which the children are required to wear masks?

    You’re just expected to go through with these activities because the school knows better than you what’s good and bad for your child?

    Remember, you didn’t know about such a field trip when you enrolled, and had you known, things like those issues above may have altered your decision to enroll in the first place.

    But all the things I mentioned above have actually been reported here.

    What happens when they surprisingly arise?  Go along to get along?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #5 on: June 17, 2022, 09:20:13 AM »
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  • I have never given anyone a blank check, especially regarding my children, and I never will.

    Same.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #6 on: June 17, 2022, 09:26:27 AM »
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  • "He wasn't forced to do it" is key here.

    Field trips and extracurricular activities have always been and should always be optional. 

    I have never given anyone a blank check, especially regarding my children, and I never will.

    If it is an activity or event intrinsically geared to all students --- as opposed to, for instance, participation in the school's sports team or a special-interest club such as chess, archery, or robotics --- then, to my mind, it is part of the curriculum, or at least adjacent to it.  The school presentations I noted were a part of the school's music and drama instruction.

    Imperiousness isn't limited to the SSPX.  The principal at my son's former Novus Ordo Catholic school (miserere mei Domine) thought she knew what was best for all children in the school, and indeed had a kind of "messiah complex", ruled with an iron fist.  I really do think, in her ideal world, she would have liked to have a video camera in every student's home, to be able to monitor their home life.  When she left, no one was sad to see her go.  I have encountered this kind of "autsequism" --- aut sequii aut mori --- even in some traditional Catholic laypeople (I would hope no present company here on CI), "our family, and only our family, knows the truth, and everybody else just needs to move aside and let us call the shots".

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #7 on: June 17, 2022, 09:36:24 AM »
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  • Is this o.k. with you?
    https://novusordowatch.org/2017/09/sspx-school-sɛҳuąƖ-perversion-policy/

    Outrageous “Child Protection” Policy in English SSPX School explicitly accepts sɛҳuąƖ Perversion


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #8 on: June 17, 2022, 09:37:50 AM »
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  • If it is an activity or event intrinsically geared to all students --- as opposed to, for instance, participation in the school's sports team or a special-interest club such as chess, archery, or robotics --- then, to my mind, it is part of the curriculum, or at least adjacent to it.  The school presentations I noted were a part of the school's music and drama instruction.

    Sure, but the catch here is that the curriculum is unannounced with respect to plays and field trips, so as Epiphany says, you’re effectively required to write a blank check in advance, not knowing what you’re actually agreeing to.

    In light of the issues mentioned above which have been reported of various SSPX schools, wouldn’t you expect there to be some latitude with regard to plays and field trips?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #9 on: June 17, 2022, 09:40:57 AM »
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  • Is this o.k. with you?
    https://novusordowatch.org/2017/09/sspx-school-sɛҳuąƖ-perversion-policy/

    But as crazy as that was, at least it was out in the open and visible to parents before they signed up their kids.

    But with plays and field trips, it’s the blank check policy.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #10 on: June 17, 2022, 09:44:24 AM »
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  • Sure, but the catch here is that the curriculum is unannounced with respect to plays and field trips, so as Epiphany says, you’re effectively required to write a blank check in advance, not knowing what you’re actually agreeing to.

    In light of the issues mentioned above which have been reported of various SSPX schools, wouldn’t you expect there to be some latitude with regard to plays and field trips?
    Not only unannounced, but also hidden as shown in my link above.


    Offline epiphany

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #11 on: June 17, 2022, 09:49:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson 6/17/2022, 9:40:57 AM
    But as crazy as that was, at least it was out in the open and visible to parents before they signed up their kids.

    But with plays and field trips, it’s the blank check policy.
    Was it out in the open easily accessible to parents before they signed their child up?

    It became not "out in the open" as soon as it was posted online. 

    Did they change the policy or just not post it online? 

    I think they hide more than we know.

    When I was in middle school my science teacher talked about sex ed. (I got up and walked home.)  When I was in high school my chemistry teacher talked about birth control.  (I told him to stop.)  And at university I had a professor discuss population control in a senior level computer class.  (I told him to shut up.)  So, it can happen in any subject.

    Sending your child to any school is giving the school a blank check.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #12 on: June 17, 2022, 10:03:51 AM »
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  • I think the SSPX schools do a fine job in most respects.

    I just don’t understand why they need to insist that you agree a priori that their their future activities will be impeccable.

    What has been reported above would suffice to say otherwise.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SperaInDeo

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    Re: About SSPX Schools
    « Reply #13 on: June 17, 2022, 10:27:07 AM »
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  • Nonconformist here. 

    I don’t conform to Priests’ “package deals” who merely have supplied jurisdiction. 

    I do like perfect conformity with the perennial teachings of the Church - the teachings of the apostles, of God Himself. Not much else though. 

    I’m pretty notorious for this with those who’ve known me for a while. Done me good so far. Quite a few close calls, but God will provide. You have to fight the good fight in this crazy world and Church Crisis - nobody has it 100% right, myself included. But I can’t agree with outsourcing your children’s education and safety, who is trustworthy anymore? 

    Prowling around like a roaring lion, etc. “On a stinking rampage” is more like it.