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Author Topic: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?  (Read 4190 times)

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Offline jman123

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it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
« on: November 13, 2017, 03:11:13 PM »
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    • I find some trads think that it's morally acceptable to use against wives. I think it's reprehensible. Wives don't deserve beatings ever. What do you think?
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 03:39:42 PM »
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    • From what I understand, female or male, any pushing or to shoving is enough to send one to jail.  If the cops are called to a domestic violence call, the question asked would be: any shoving or pushing, that slight and that is enough. If the police sees any touching of that sort, he must take that person in.

    Is it wrong?  Sure it is in God's eyes and the civil authority as well.  
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 03:43:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: jman123 on November 13, 2017, 03:11:13 PM
    I find some trads think that it's morally acceptable to use against wives. I think it's reprehensible. Wives don't deserve beatings ever. What do you think?
    I'd prefer not to shoot or stab one, if a booger hook will do; but, if you think that stopping unjust violence, wife or no, is out of line then "all you".

    Besides that, why come "wives"? Still open season on husbands?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 05:03:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: jman123 on November 13, 2017, 03:11:13 PM
    I find some trads think that it's morally acceptable to use against wives. I think it's reprehensible. Wives don't deserve beatings ever. What do you think?

    There are a couple threads on this subject already.  Yes, some Trads do think that it's OK.  Look in the "Anonymous" section.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 11:37:00 PM »
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    • I think for men to think that it is ok to use 'corporal' punishment against their wives is asking for trouble.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 04:13:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: jman123 on November 13, 2017, 03:11:13 PM
    I find some trads think that it's morally acceptable to use against wives. I think it's reprehensible. Wives don't deserve beatings ever. What do you think?
    Women, like men, deserve to burn eternally in Hell. Why wouldn't we ever deserve the significantly lesser punishment of a beating. I am quite sure that I deserve much worse than a beating.

    It's just that we live in a culture that has almost completely eliminated corporal punishment so it seems strange to us for it to be used on adults. There is no reason to think it is intrinsically wrong or displeasing to God. This was accepted by the Church for centuries. Only our culture has a problem with it.

    One can make a case that it is imprudent in our current situation or that the practice risks misuse, but there are no grounds in traditional Catholic teaching to call it reprehensible. In the past most authority relationships were enforced with corporal punishment, including the husband's authority over his wife. I see no reason to believe that our ancestors who taught and practised this were sinning by doing so.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 04:50:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on November 13, 2017, 11:37:00 PM
    I think for men to think that it is ok to use 'corporal' punishment against their wives is asking for trouble.
    "Credo" is asking for trouble; so what?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 06:20:58 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 14, 2017, 04:13:49 AM
    Women, like men, deserve to burn eternally in Hell. Why wouldn't we ever deserve the significantly lesser punishment of a beating. I am quite sure that I deserve much worse than a beating.


    Lame.  It's not about what we deserve but about who has the right to administer the punishment.  Indeed, my parents are no less deserving of punishment than anyone else ... except that I do not have the right to administer said punishment.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 06:32:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: jman123 on November 13, 2017, 03:11:13 PM
    I find some trads think that it's morally acceptable to use against wives. I think it's reprehensible. Wives don't deserve beatings ever. What do you think?
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    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline jman123

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 07:08:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 14, 2017, 04:13:49 AM
    Women, like men, deserve to burn eternally in Hell. Why wouldn't we ever deserve the significantly lesser punishment of a beating. I am quite sure that I deserve much worse than a beating.

    It's just that we live in a culture that has almost completely eliminated corporal punishment so it seems strange to us for it to be used on adults. There is no reason to think it is intrinsically wrong or displeasing to God. This was accepted by the Church for centuries. Only our culture has a problem with it.

    One can make a case that it is imprudent in our current situation or that the practice risks misuse, but there are no grounds in traditional Catholic teaching to call it reprehensible. In the past most authority relationships were enforced with corporal punishment, including the husband's authority over his wife. I see no reason to believe that our ancestors who taught and practised this were sinning by doing so.
    So the play the Taming of the Shrew by Shakespeare is not immoral? Women are not animals to be tamed. They are human. 
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 07:41:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: jman123 on November 14, 2017, 07:08:44 AM
    So the play the Taming of the Shrew by Shakespeare is not immoral? Women are not animals to be tamed. They are human.
    Taming of the Shrew is my favourite play by Shakespeare. Poor Kate was miserable until Petruchio tamed her. She had no self-control and had destroyed all the relationships in her life with her tantrums and bad temper. Petruchio gave her peace and happiness by teaching her to accept his authority. I actually relate to this story a lot and sometimes even call my husband Petruchio as a nickname.

    However the play does not portray Petruchio using corporal punishment to tame Kate. He uses psychological methods. So I am not sure how it is relevant to the topic.

    There was a 1953 movie called Kiss me Kate about actors putting on a production of Taming of the Shrew. It contained a scene in which one of the actors spanked his divorced wife. This was portrayed as a positive thing which led to the couple reconciling. I do not think that the movie was immoral for portraying corporal punishment positively. The movie even did some good by portraying divorce negatively.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 07:57:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 14, 2017, 07:41:11 AM
    Taming of the Shrew is my favourite play by Shakespeare. Poor Kate was miserable until Petruchio tamed her. She had no self-control and had destroyed all the relationships in her life with her tantrums and bad temper. Petruchio gave her peace and happiness by teaching her to accept his authority. I actually relate to this story a lot and sometimes even call my husband Petruchio as a nickname.

    However the play does not portray Petruchio using corporal punishment to tame Kate. He uses psychological methods. So I am not sure how it is relevant to the topic.

    There was a 1953 movie called Kiss me Kate about actors putting on a production of Taming of the Shrew. It contained a scene in which one of the actors spanked his divorced wife. This was portrayed as a positive thing which led to the couple reconciling. I do not think that the movie was immoral for portraying corporal punishment positively. The movie even did some good by portraying divorce negatively.
    Never mind that "Shrew" is used in the sense of "shrewish", and not a depiction of women as actual shrews.

    What a time, when people "think" like this, and that there is a need to actually point out distinctions such as that between the literal and the figurative.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 10:17:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 14, 2017, 07:41:11 AM
    Taming of the Shrew is my favourite play by Shakespeare. Poor Kate was miserable until Petruchio tamed her. She had no self-control and had destroyed all the relationships in her life with her tantrums and bad temper. Petruchio gave her peace and happiness by teaching her to accept his authority. I actually relate to this story a lot and sometimes even call my husband Petruchio as a nickname.

    As I've said before, you've overreacted in the other direction due to regrets about your past behaviors and past mentality.  I speculated about this earlier, and this post simply confirms it.  Unfortunately, however, you've overgeneralized your own experiences into principles.  For every man who has to "tame" a woman, there's a woman who has to work on helping a man.  Your default reaction is that the woman is always in the wrong and the man always in the right.  And you thereby do damage by promoting the misogynist attitudes that exist among a significant number of Traditional Catholic men.

    This is so darn typical among Traditionalists ... an overreaction to the OPPOSITE EXTREME when confronting some evil.  So to combat your prior tendencies towards feminism you swing towards misandry.  Can't you try to find a balance?  People overreact against the evils of the Novus Ordo by becoming almost dogmatic about the enforcement of liturgical proprieties ... considering the slightest rubrical misstep tantamount to apostasy.  People react against the Novus Ordo religious indifferentism by becoming dogmatic anti-BoDers (as per another thread where I'm duking it out).  You've made the mistake of responding to feminism with misandry.  It's also a form the "self-punishment" on your part.  Unfortunately, however, you are thereby simultaneously encouraging the punishment of other women as well because of your own misdeeds.
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    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 09:04:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 13, 2017, 05:03:14 PM
    There are a couple threads on this subject already.  Yes, some Trads do think that it's OK.  Look in the "Anonymous" section.
    I think that is just baiting.  People think up a topic they believe will generate controversy just for some twisted sense of satisfaction.
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    Offline hismajesty

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 06:35:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 14, 2017, 04:13:49 AM
    Women, like men, deserve to burn eternally in Hell. Why wouldn't we ever deserve the significantly lesser punishment of a beating. I am quite sure that I deserve much worse than a beating.

    It's just that we live in a culture that has almost completely eliminated corporal punishment so it seems strange to us for it to be used on adults. There is no reason to think it is intrinsically wrong or displeasing to God. This was accepted by the Church for centuries. Only our culture has a problem with it.

    One can make a case that it is imprudent in our current situation or that the practice risks misuse, but there are no grounds in traditional Catholic teaching to call it reprehensible. In the past most authority relationships were enforced with corporal punishment, including the husband's authority over his wife. I see no reason to believe that our ancestors who taught and practised this were sinning by doing so.

    Well said Jaynek.


    To answer the original question myself, I will say it is not what we think, but what the Church thinks and has practiced for  2000 years.
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    "....I am at a loss what to say respecting those who, when they have once erred, consistently persevere in their folly, and defend one vain thing by another" - Church Father Lactentius on the globe earth
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