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Author Topic: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?  (Read 4192 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 12:29:01 PM »
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  • As I've said before, you've overreacted in the other direction due to regrets about your past behaviors and past mentality.  I speculated about this earlier, and this post simply confirms it.  Unfortunately, however, you've overgeneralized your own experiences into principles.  For every man who has to "tame" a woman, there's a woman who has to work on helping a man.  Your default reaction is that the woman is always in the wrong and the man always in the right.  And you thereby do damage by promoting the misogynist attitudes that exist among a significant number of Traditional Catholic men.

    This is so darn typical among Traditionalists ... an overreaction to the OPPOSITE EXTREME when confronting some evil.  So to combat your prior tendencies towards feminism you swing towards misandry.  Can't you try to find a balance?  People overreact against the evils of the Novus Ordo by becoming almost dogmatic about the enforcement of liturgical proprieties ... considering the slightest rubrical misstep tantamount to apostasy.  People react against the Novus Ordo religious indifferentism by becoming dogmatic anti-BoDers (as per another thread where I'm duking it out).  You've made the mistake of responding to feminism with misandry.  It's also a form the "self-punishment" on your part.  Unfortunately, however, you are thereby simultaneously encouraging the punishment of other women as well because of your own misdeeds.

    Well said, especially the part about it being typical among trads to overreact to the OPPOSITE EXTREME when confronting some evil. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 12:59:40 PM »
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  • Well said, especially the part about it being typical among trads to overreact to the OPPOSITE EXTREME when confronting some evil.
    While it might or might not be true in general, it is not an accurate assessment of the views I have expressed on this subject. My conclusions are based on a cold academic analysis of the sources. What the Church practiced and taught about corporal punishment in the past is a matter of historical reality.

    The only emotion I bring to this subject is my reluctance to judge the past based on modern values. I do not want to claim that our ancestors in the Faith were sinning for believing what they did.  

    I have repeatedly expressed my belief that attempting to use corporal punishment in our contemporary situation is problematic. My alleged over-reaction exists only in the imagination of Ladislaus. 


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #17 on: November 15, 2017, 01:03:10 PM »
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  • I have repeatedly expressed my belief that attempting to use corporal punishment in our contemporary situation is problematic. My alleged over-reaction exists only in the imagination of Ladislaus.

    I'm not referring to this issue alone but to your overall attitude towards men and women.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 01:16:37 PM »
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  • My alleged over-reaction exists only in the imagination of Ladislaus.
    And my alleged overall attitude to men and women exists only in the imagination of Ladislaus. It is a fabrication of speculation and inferences with almost no correspondence to reality. I find his behaviour highly objectionable. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 02:25:12 PM »
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  • And my alleged overall attitude to men and women exists only in the imagination of Ladislaus. It is a fabrication of speculation and inferences with almost no correspondence to reality. I find his behaviour highly objectionable.

    Not at all.  If I cared enough to devote the time to it, I could go dig through all your previous postings to demonstrate your attitude.


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 04:51:09 PM »
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  • I ask that people not believe anything that Ladislaus says about what I think or feel unless he supports it with a quote of me actually saying that. He has created a chimera and given it my name. 

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 04:58:28 PM »
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  • I ask that people not believe anything that Ladislaus says about what I think or feel unless he supports it with a quote of me actually saying that. He has created a chimera and given it my name.
    Ma'am, that's somewhat comparable to asking that we not use animals for pinatas; decent people don't need telling, and it won't do any good otherwise.

    These attacks are getting your goat.

    With all due ma'am, where's your man? In his shoes, I'd want to know about this, and step in.

    It's past time, and his place.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 05:11:48 PM »
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  • These attacks are getting your goat.

    With all due ma'am, where's your man? In his shoes, I'd want to know about this, and step in.

    It's past time, and his place.
    This sort of thing is part of participating on forums. He will say that if I am not prepared to deal with it, then I should get off the forum. He is too busy with important things to waste time on my hobby and I would not ask it of him.

    However if forum nonsense bothers me, I can always get a hug from him and that is enough to make me feel better. I am away from home now, working on settling my father's estate, so I am a bit hug-deprived. That may be why this is getting to me more than it ought.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 05:18:08 PM »
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  • This sort of thing is part of participating on forums. He will say that if I am not prepared to deal with it, then I should get off the forum. He is too busy with important things to waste time on my hobby and I would not ask it of him.

    However if forum nonsense bothers me, I can always get a hug from him and that is enough to make me feel better. I am away from home now, working on settling my father's estate, so I am a bit hug-deprived. That may be why this is getting to me more than it ought.
    Odd hobby ma'am, but it's your show. 

    Besides, if you get too crazy he can always beat some sense back in...




    j/k. 

    Other people gots goats too.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 05:27:31 PM »
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  • Odd hobby ma'am, but it's your show.

    Besides, if you get too crazy he can always beat some sense back in...




    j/k.

    Other people gots goats too.
    :laugh1:

    I am like Charlie Brown and the football. Just like he kept thinking, "This time Lucy won't pull the football away," I keep thinking, "This time people will be logical, stay on topic, and be civil."

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #25 on: November 15, 2017, 05:37:26 PM »
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  • :laugh1:

    I am like Charlie Brown and the football. Just like he kept thinking, "This time Lucy won't pull the football away," I keep thinking, "This time people will be logical, stay on topic, and be civil."
    ... and maybe not call you a Jєω for at least trying to do things the Catholic way, whilst giving you the Freud und Jung Sturm und Drang....

    "Meshuggeneh"
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #26 on: November 16, 2017, 07:09:51 AM »
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  • ... and maybe not call you a Jєω for at least trying to do things the Catholic way, whilst giving you the Freud und Jung Sturm und Drang....

    "Meshuggeneh"
    I don't think anyone has called me a Jєω in regards to this subject, but I have been accused of trying to convince men to beat their wives. That is just as crazy.

    How does anyone make the leap from "corporal punishment is not intrinsically wrong but imprudent in our situation" (my actual position) to "all you men ought to beat your wives" ? And then, having ascribed such a distasteful view to me, he comes up with an absurd psychoanalysis to explain why I think a thing I don't actually think.

    Anyhow I talked it all over with my husband last night and he got me laughing about it. There is no reason to get upset about these accusations. They are just too silly to take seriously.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #27 on: November 16, 2017, 07:24:34 AM »
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  • but I have been accused of trying to convince men to beat their wives

    That's a complete distortion.  What I actually WROTE was that your crusade in favor of your position on this matter and your overall negative attitude towards women will only serve to condone and encourage abusive behavior from Traditional Catholic men towards their wives.  Nobody said you were trying to convince them to beat their wives.  I clearly said that you'll never convince anyone who does not share your views to lay a hand on his wife.  But in the case of those men already inclined to denigrate and abuse their wives, you're helping to put their consciences at peace.  And this is absolutely true; there's no question about that.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #28 on: November 16, 2017, 07:30:07 AM »
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  • This sort of thing is part of participating on forums. He will say that if I am not prepared to deal with it, then I should get off the forum. He is too busy with important things to waste time on my hobby and I would not ask it of him.

    However if forum nonsense bothers me, I can always get a hug from him and that is enough to make me feel better. I am away from home now, working on settling my father's estate, so I am a bit hug-deprived. That may be why this is getting to me more than it ought.

    This is another reason why women should not argue with men.  They can't get into a heated debate without it having an emotional impact on them.  Women take things personally.  As for me, I routinely get called an idiot, a "puke", a flaming liberal, a pervert (for saying that it's a sin for men to disrespect their wives), and a split-tongued devil (from another thread in the BoD forum where I'm arguing that BoD is not heresy).  I was trying to make a distinction for someone who didn't understand what one was and was therefore said to have a forked tongue.  Doesn't bother me in the least bit, and it has absolutely no emotional impact on me.  At most I'll get irritated with stupidity, but even that passes quickly.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it really permissible for corporal punishment to be administered?
    « Reply #29 on: November 16, 2017, 07:39:05 AM »
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  • "This time people will be logical, stay on topic, and be civil."

    Well, it's rather arrogant to accuse people of not being "logical" whenever they disagree with you.  I laid out a very strong logical argument against wife-beating, and yet you accuse me of being illogical and not making an argument ... because I don't agree with your views.  Yet, interestingly, you never accused the Anonymous blowhard on that other thread of being illogical and uncivil; he didn't make a single substantial or logical point, but simply vented insults and contempt for people who didn't agree with his views.  He got a pass from you ... because he happened to agree with you.  But then someone who does make a logical argument is accused of being illogical and uncivil ... because he doesn't share your opinion.