Author Topic: Is Schooling Wrong? (Read 3115 times)

Maizar · « **on:** March 17, 2012, 08:14:36 AM »

I just read an article from an obscure website called Prevent Disease, where it suggests that what impedes children from achieving their best as adults is an enforced and narrow education system conducted in schools.

Quote

Education is not just the means of making you a degree holder; it is the gateway to the art of living. Education enables you to think, to discover the principles of life, and to correctly evaluate your experiences. Education gives you the ability to know the difference between the achievable and the unachievable. If you are an educated person in this sense, you will certainly discover the value of the habit of forgetting and that the past is irrelevant.

I remember hearing words like these as a child. Education literally means to be taken outside, to be brought to a new understanding of things. Understanding and not training. Education is learning how to think, not what to think.

Quote

"I don't like school because they take everything I'm good at and tell me I can't do it anymore. I just want to once be able to do the things I'm good at like drawing and writing stories. I want to do it all day because I can think better than when I do stuff like math. Shouldn't I be able to really like or even love what I do when I come here. They should help kids do what they know how to do best and I think the rest...I mean all the other subjects will just work out, and if they don't, well...then they're just not that important."

I have met home schooled children from farms who ended up head and shoulders above their peers in University, academically, spiritually, socially and practically. Having followed these children through life I noticed that they were given a very flexible education by the parents, whilst not overlooking the basics, adapted the bulk of the education to each child's personal abilities and needs.

Are traditional Catholic schools achieving what a good home schooling family can achieve?

s2srea · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2012, 09:18:47 AM »

There are a few good threads on homeschooling you might want to research on this forum. Its a difficult subject, sort of. That is, I think we can agree that public schooling is downright bad, if not mostly evil. However, I don't think there is consensus on whether homeschooling is the 'best' option, ever. Its the best option for most of us, but if we have a good traditional Catholic school around for our children, that would 'technically' be the best option; of course this is not always the case, but we're speaking in general terms, not specific cases.

For me, I wish I could send my children to the local traditional Catholic school, run by SSPX. But its a 1 1/2 hour drive away from us, and would be nearly impossible to do, given the traffic found in LA. So while I think homeschooling is the next best choice, to be completely honest, I know my wife, who is still learning about it, is a little apprehensive about her ability to truly teach our children sufficiently.

Fortunately, because I've shown her the laws and evil's of it, she already agrees that public schooling is not going to be an option for our children. This isn't an issue we argue over, but it is an issue where I will need to do convincing and encouraging that she can indeed teach our children. She has suggested a local secular conservative private school, which is highly reccomended; however you have a different set of issues there. Cost is a big one. Also, I would need to see if their curriculum included teaching on 'daddy and daddy' (:barf:) issues, and moral issues, though I've heard they steer clear of that stuff.

Of course, being able to move would be best, but is impossible for us right now. Our eldest daughter is only 3 (the twins are 1), so that gives us some time too.

Graham · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2012, 09:40:09 AM »

I think it's vital to learn basic math, though by basic I really do mean basic; in the public system I went through I knew all the important functions well before grade three (the year we were taught long division). Addition and subtraction are all a man needs to run a business; in fact the ancient mathematicians considered multiplication and division to be mysteries. Socrates himself felt that the addition of one and one to make two comprised a mystery. Education today, including any homeschool education designed to lead to wider social 'success' in a cruelly literal and pragmatic world, can utterly sap things of their inherent wonder.

It is similar with literacy. Plato questioned its value, and Aristotle was able to ask whether a man, once educated, should also consider becoming literate. A system that begins teaching literacy from a young age corrupts and weakens the mind.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2012, 01:35:47 PM »

The ancients were very strong in mathematics. It's something of a myth that arabic numerals caused a revolution in arithmetic.

Both roman numerals and arabic numerals are simply symbolic representations of the abacus (granted, different kinds of abacuses)

http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/proceedings/2008/pdfs/p2097.pdf

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2012, 01:57:15 PM »

It is the duty of the parents to teach the children the Faith.

Teaching children the Faith should not be left to schools.

If parents rely on a teacher, who cannot love their child as much as they do,

then the parents risk being responsible for the loss of the precious souls of their children.

Home schooling solves this problem.

Home schooling is obviously best.

Also, home schooling keeps Catholic Families close and loving,

which is much better than sending the children out of their home into a school.

Home schooling is a way to make Catholic Families loving and happy.

And home schooling is a way to make sure that Catholic children keep the Faith.

songbird · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2012, 02:07:46 PM »

I never regretted home schooling our children. All are grown and did better than academically and have good study skills and the most, Catholic Religion!! I just regret not doing it sooner. Some programs are set in such a way, that even a part-time working parent can do it. The curriculum tells you what to do each day in every subject. If a child has reading skills, they can do it and parents check the work and such. Dr. Allen White of the Naval Academy had a terrific talk in this area. He had no problem with home schoolers, they were his favorite and those of public schools were very poor in reading and study habits. Dr. White said he had to set up a remedial program just for them before the students could be taught.

Graham · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2012, 02:34:09 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

The ancients were very strong in mathematics.

I didn't mean to suggest that they weren't, just that they wondered at even simple mathematical operations like addition, multiplication and division, seeing in these analogies for divine procession.

Quote

It's something of a myth that arabic numerals caused a revolution in arithmetic.

Both roman numerals and arabic numerals are simply symbolic representations of the abacus (granted, different kinds of abacuses)

http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/proceedings/2008/pdfs/p2097.pdf

Thanks for the link. I had no idea people studied this sort of thing.

s2srea · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2012, 02:57:27 PM »

Quote from: Sede Catholic

Home schooling is obviously best.

I don't know about it being best. When the Church flourished, and nuns and priests were plentiful and taught in the classroom, that was best, to me.

s2srea · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2012, 02:58:30 PM »

Quote from: Graham

Quote from: Telesphorus
The ancients were very strong in mathematics.

I didn't mean to suggest that they weren't, just that they wondered at even simple mathematical operations like addition, multiplication and division, seeing in these analogies for divine procession.

Quote
It's something of a myth that arabic numerals caused a revolution in arithmetic.

Both roman numerals and arabic numerals are simply symbolic representations of the abacus (granted, different kinds of abacuses)

http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/proceedings/2008/pdfs/p2097.pdf

Thanks for the link. I had no idea people studied this sort of thing.

Its funny this came up. I was talking to a friend recently and wondering:

Were there ever people who had a numerical system which wasn't based off "10" as our are?

Graham · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2012, 03:25:22 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: Graham
Quote from: Telesphorus
The ancients were very strong in mathematics.

I didn't mean to suggest that they weren't, just that they wondered at even simple mathematical operations like addition, multiplication and division, seeing in these analogies for divine procession.

Quote
It's something of a myth that arabic numerals caused a revolution in arithmetic.

Both roman numerals and arabic numerals are simply symbolic representations of the abacus (granted, different kinds of abacuses)

http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/proceedings/2008/pdfs/p2097.pdf

Thanks for the link. I had no idea people studied this sort of thing.

Its funny this came up. I was talking to a friend recently and wondering:

Were there ever people who had a numerical system which wasn't based off "10" as our are?

Yes, I know that there have been other systems, I believe 12 was common, but it isn't something I understand.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2012, 05:09:34 PM »

Good video on this very subject:

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2012, 05:11:43 PM »

There was a very good article in last month's (February) New Oxford Review by Murray S Daw.

All of their articles are available online as well.

Jitpring · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2012, 05:36:20 PM »

Listen to this on public and "Catholic" schools:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20090906-Where-Are-Those-Whom-I-Have-Entrusted-to-You-.html

Telesphorus · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2012, 05:53:57 PM »

Quote from: Graham

Thanks for the link. I had no idea people studied this sort of thing.

Mathematics is the art of the quadrivial.

Maizar · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2012, 07:50:15 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

There are a few good threads on homeschooling you might want to research on this forum. Its a difficult subject, sort of. That is, I think we can agree that public schooling is downright bad, if not mostly evil. However, I don't think there is consensus on whether homeschooling is the 'best' option, ever. Its the best option for most of us, but if we have a good traditional Catholic school around for our children, that would 'technically' be the best option; of course this is not always the case, but we're speaking in general terms, not specific cases.

For me, I wish I could send my children to the local traditional Catholic school, run by SSPX. But its a 1 1/2 hour drive away from us, and would be nearly impossible to do, given the traffic found in LA. So while I think homeschooling is the next best choice, to be completely honest, I know my wife, who is still learning about it, is a little apprehensive about her ability to truly teach our children sufficiently.

Fortunately, because I've shown her the laws and evil's of it, she already agrees that public schooling is not going to be an option for our children. This isn't an issue we argue over, but it is an issue where I will need to do convincing and encouraging that she can indeed teach our children. She has suggested a local secular conservative private school, which is highly reccomended; however you have a different set of issues there. Cost is a big one. Also, I would need to see if their curriculum included teaching on 'daddy and daddy' (:barf:) issues, and moral issues, though I've heard they steer clear of that stuff.

Of course, being able to move would be best, but is impossible for us right now. Our eldest daughter is only 3 (the twins are 1), so that gives us some time too.

That's very interesting. Home schooling as I see it has some important differences which are its main strengths.

1. Children are taught on the basis of their ability, not their age.
2. The cohort is the community and family, not a class of children based only on age. For this reason I notice that home schooled children have an adult level of emotional maturity sooner.
3. The core subjects of mathematics, language, history, geography etc. are done in the morning when the brain is at its peak.
4. Children are given the afternoon off, so they can be children!

I know that home schooling is not really superior to organized schools, on the whole, because high standards cannot be enforced in home, but rather depend on the motivation and intellectual abilities of the parents. I know of some schools which allow children to attend part-time. Parents then spend a few days a week supplementing the curriculum themselves. You might be able to negotiate this with the secular school which could drive the cost down.