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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 71438 times)

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Offline Stanley N

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #870 on: December 16, 2021, 07:51:28 PM »
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  • The sun is "above" water, OK.

    How is it "below" clouds? The video seems to say it's a reflection from the water.

    How does that work over land?

    And here's a short one about that horizon "rising to eye level":

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #871 on: December 16, 2021, 07:52:31 PM »
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  • Hypocrite:

    90% of your responses on this thread are nothing but ridicule and smilies.  I'm talking about using that tactic to the near exclusion of anything else.  Basically, you're just an a-hole


    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #872 on: December 16, 2021, 08:01:38 PM »
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  • 90% of your responses on this thread are nothing but ridicule and smilies.  I'm talking about using that tactic to the near exclusion of anything else.  Basically, you're just an a-hole
    :incense::incense::incense:


    90% ???
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #873 on: December 16, 2021, 08:23:43 PM »
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  • The sun is "above" water, OK.

    How is it "below" clouds? The video seems to say it's a reflection from the water.

    How does that work over land?

    It's not just water; it can be any surface.  Point is that when light gets concentrated at your eyes, as per the previous article, you can perceive a "reflection" when there isn't really one there, not the way you actually   There are all kinds of things going on both optically and atmospherically.  Some picture with no analysis behind it doesn't prove anything.  I've seen the bottoms of clouds lit up when the sun appeared to be above the clouds still.  In that case, it was likely due to the light reflecting off lower banks clouds back up, or off some other surface.  On top of that they can partially go through the clouds and cause the clouds to appear brighter.  There are a dozen possible interpretations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_iridescence



    This here is an article about cloud iridescence and calls it an "optical" phenomenon.  You'll notice also that a white part of the clouds appear to be lit up, even though the sun is clearly above them.  In that case, it could be because that layer is thinner.  or else it's bouncing back off something.

    Posting a picture is overly "simplistic".

    Here are some more where the sun is clearly above the cloud and yet part of the clouds look like they're lit up and part aren't.



    Here's one where it's clearly reflecting off one thicker bank of clouds onto the other.  Clouds on the left are dark, ones at the very right brightly lit.



    So a picture of a cloud with light on the bottom doesn't prove anything by itself.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #874 on: December 16, 2021, 08:24:10 PM »
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  • Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #875 on: December 16, 2021, 08:27:30 PM »
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  • Hard to explain, even if theory were that the sun is 6000m (not km) above FE.

    Picture 1.  Is there really a beam of light directed exactly at the observer?  or is that an optical phenomenon?

    Picture 2.  What is the actual angle to the sun?  That's just the sun showing through the gap between two cloud banks.

    With anythig like this, you've got to take the measurements.  Where is the sun compared to the observation point?  Even at 3,000 miles away, there are many angles in whcih this could work even apart from optical phenomena.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #876 on: December 16, 2021, 08:32:29 PM »
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  • The sun is "above" water, OK.

    How is it "below" clouds? The video seems to say it's a reflection from the water.

    How does that work over land?

    And here's a short one about that horizon "rising to eye level":


    What is the source of this picture, Microsoft flight simulator?  What kind of video equipment was used?  There are many demonstrations even on land of the apparent horizon being lower than the actual horizon due to atmospheric conditions causing it to blur away.  There appears to be a ton of mist / fog / cloud toward the edges.

    You have many videos close to what they call the "edge of space" where the horizon is at eye level.  Here there's no issue with atmospheric conditions causing the horizon line to blur away.



    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #877 on: December 16, 2021, 08:34:50 PM »
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  • 90% of your responses on this thread are nothing but ridicule and smilies.  I'm talking about using that tactic to the near exclusion of anything else.  Basically, you're just an a-hole
    :incense::incense::incense:


    90% ???

    You guys should take a break, maybe pray a little. Getting too heated. Here, reflect on this chapter from Imitation of the Sacred Heart I just read a little while ago, it's very relevant:

    Quote
    CHAPTER XIX.

    THAT THE MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS, CONVERSING
    WITH MEN, TEACHES US TO BEAR WITH
    THE DEFECTS OF OUR NEIGHBOR.

      1. The voice of Jesus.—My Child, so long as I was seen upon earth, and conversed with men, I was in the midst of a wicked generation.
    How much pride and infidelity, how much uncleanness and iniquity, thinkest thou, did I behold,—I the Searcher of hearts,—in the hearts of men, to whom naught, save the world ; naught, except self-interest, was pleasing!
    How was My Heart moved at the sight of men's sinful ignorance, unbridled licentiousness, forgetfulness of the things of heaven, anxiety for those of earth, neglect of virtue, the triumph of vice!
    Compare Me, My Child, with such men : My humility with their conceitedness and vanity: My zeal with their indifference and obstinacy: My beneficence with their insensibility and ungratefulness: My charity with their listlessness and disregard: in short, all My virtues with their defects and vices!
    Understand also, what disposition of Heart I displayed before them. Behold ! whatsoever they were, I continued to live with them, to converse with them, to stay among them,—without complaint or indignation of Heart,—yea, to show myself content.
    If thou meditatest rightly upon this pattern of life, thou wilt learn to manifest similar sentiments of heart to thy neighbor.
      2. Thou, My Child, and all thy neighbors, ye are conjointly children of the same heavenly Father; ye were conjointly ransomed at the same price of My life; ye are all to be united forever in fellowship, by the same bond of the love of the Holy Spirit.
    Ye are all called to the same kingdom of heaven; that there ye may be made blissful in perfect peace, in the joy of an everlasting union. See, therefore, that thou agree with them on the way, lest thou be hereafter excluded from the heavenly abode of the Blessed, and delivered up to exterior torturers.
    This is My example; nay more, this is My command, that, carrying each other's burdens, ye love one another, as I love you,—with a supernatural, universal, efficacious love.
    If ye love Me, keep My command. If ye keep the same, ye will remain in My love. He that hates his brother is a murderer: he kills the very soul, and that his own. Whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be answerable before the judgment. He that forgives not, shall not be forgiven. He that forbears not, shall not be forborne. For with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
      3. Remember, My Child, that thou art living—not among Angels but among men, who cannot be here below without failings. Do not then wonder, if frail mortals err or fall: but wonder at this, that, whilst thyself thou hast many failings, with which others must bear, thou darest sometimes feel indignant at those of others.
    If thou bearest not with another's defect, dost thou not by the very fact commit a fault and show it too? Know that I sometimes suffer well-meaning and virtuous men to be opposed to each other, that, without sin, there may be an opportunity of bearing with one another's defects, of practicing solid virtues, and of acquiring merits. Judge the things of thy neighbor by thy own.
    As thou desirest to be dealt with, so deal thou with others : and do not to others what thou wouldst not have done to thyself. Hast thou not many things, My Child, from which thou wouldst gladly free thyself, and from which thou knowest, by thy own experience, that thou art unable to free thyself? What thou sufferest, therefore, in thyself, even against thy will, that do thou likewise tolerate in others; whom, if thou hast any humility and charity, thou wilt suppose to endure their own defects, in spite of themselves.
      4. There are they who willingly enough bear with the defects of friends, and of those whom they find agreeing with themselves in taste and manners: but who take easily offense at the failings of all beside. Now, what virtue is there in this ? Do not the heathen do the same? Nay more, are not the very animals, devoid of reason, accustomed to act in the same manner?
    How canst thou be My Disciple, if thou hast the feelings of a pagan : or, if thou followest simply an animal instinct? Be thou animated, My Child, with the supernatural charity of My Heart ; whereby I endured, and loved all, enemies as well as friends, even unto death.
    Passing, therefore, over every merely natural consideration, endure thou all, love all ; make of no one an exception. Pray for them that persecute and calumniate thee ; bless them that revile thee ; do good to them that hate thee ; overcome evil by good.
    Hate the evil which is done : but beware lest thouhate the man who commits the same. How much soever thou mayst detest the sin of a man, thou art bound to love the man himself.
      5. The Saints, who followed not nature but grace, did so far clothe themselves with the sentiments of My Heart, that they endured and loved—not only all in general, but specially those that were opposed
    to them. Yet, My Child, they too were men ; and, like thyself, had the feelings of nature : but they overcame nature; and, in spite of feeling, in their greatness of soul, emulated My example.
    Come, Child, be courageous, and, as is becoming in a Disciple of My Heart, imitate those noble and generous souls. When thou feelest indignant at the faults of thy neighbor, keep silence ; neither suffer thou aught ill-ordered to escape thy lips,—whereby thou mayst harm thyself, as well as thy neighbor.
    Pray for him in thy heart ; and steadily refrain thy mind from reflecting on his faults.
    Never grow weary of pardoning thy neighbor, of bearing with his faults, of loving him with a supernatural affection ; if with thy heart thou desirest to follow My Heart.
    If thou hast many and great things to endure in others, remember, Child, that T have undergone more and greater things for thy sake: nay, that I have borne with more and greater things in thee.
    Behold ! I mercifully forgave thee a debt of ten thousand: shouldst thou not then have pity on thy fellow-servant, as I also had mercy on thee?
    Call to mind, My Child, how long, and with how great a goodness of Heart, I have endured thee, and how I do even now endure thee : and learn thence, how and how far thou oughtest to bear with thy neighbor.

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #878 on: December 16, 2021, 08:48:09 PM »
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  • Another thing that's counter-intuitive.  Why do jetstreams move from West to East in the same direction that the earth rotates (from West to East)?

    Explanation is that the winds move FASTER than the earth rotates.

    From weather.gov:
    Quote
    The result is the wind moves faster than the earth rotates so it moves from west to east (relative to us at the surface).


    OK, so the winds move faster than 1000 MPH (at the equator)?

    But I thought that gravity held the atmosphere tightly bound to the earth?  But then, if not, why don't we have winds moving at breakneck speeds the OTHER way, from East to West?  None of that makes any sense whatsoever.

    In the Felix Baumgartner jump video above, after a 2.5-hour ascent, he then jumped, and landed 40 miles EAST of his takeoff point.  After 2.5 hours, he should have been nearly 2,000 miles WEST, in the Pacific ocean.  Except the explanatioin is that gravity has an iron grip on him even at that elevation when not connected to the earth by anything other than the air in between?

    Which one is it?  Either gravity has a death-grip on everything within its reach, or a gentle breeze can move a balloon around.  But if gravity has a death grip dragging things along with its rotation, then how is it that planes can easily land on north-south-facing runways.  You would think that the earth rotating and dragging everything along with it in its death grip would want to drag the plane eastward as it's landing?

    If a plane were travelling from the North Pole to the equator due south, then it would have to massively increase its angular momentum against the eastward tug of "gravity" as it went south, but a plane cuts through that stuff like it's not even there, and it's in no way noticeable.

    This simply defies all common sense.  I'm sorry, but none of that makes any sense at all.  People just pontificate and say things, but things that defy all common sense.

    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #879 on: December 17, 2021, 06:39:43 AM »
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  • Many of these questions demonstrate how poorly informed you are about Flat Earth.  You perpetuate the strawman hoax about the earth being a flat disc.  It's not

    And you claim these have been answered for the globe?  Nonsense.  That's an abject lie.  The deepest anyone has ever drilled is 8 miles.  Nobody knows what's down there.  This stuff about there being some iron core somewhere is totally unproven hypothesis.

    Earth is not a thin flat disk floating in space.  We know only that that we live on a flat surface, but underneath we do not know the depth.  We know that hell is somewhere down there, but no one knows how deep.

    This is the kindof stuff which makes it clear that it's a wate of time to debate any issues seriously with you.

    Scanning your questions briefly, 80% of them are equally as stupid.
    To be quite honest with you, thee are not my questions, I found them somewhere else and thought they were interesting. Also I just briefly skimmed them myself.

    There's a whole area of science Seismology which empirically measures the structure of Earth's inside.

    In retrospect it's probably not very helpful for the debate to pull up that many new points for discussion as I did, sorry about that. Let's instead focus on some distinct arguments.

    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #880 on: December 17, 2021, 07:00:25 AM »
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  • The video shows a "Perspective Matrix":




    In the image:
    - The buildings shrink with distance.
    - The clouds shrink with distance.
    - The sun doesn't shrink with distance.

    Q.: Why didn't he show the sun shrinking with distance? Why doesn't the sun shrink to zero size at the vanishing point?

    A.: Because everybody knows that we can see the sun going down and disappear behind the horizon, while it's diameter is not only not shrinking to zero; rather, it's diameter virtually stays the same.

    Flat-earth model debunked!
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Offline cassini

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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #882 on: December 17, 2021, 11:29:53 AM »
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  • "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #883 on: December 17, 2021, 11:32:33 AM »
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  • The video shows a "Perspective Matrix":




    In the image:
    - The buildings shrink with distance.
    - The clouds shrink with distance.
    - The sun doesn't shrink with distance.

    Q.: Why didn't he show the sun shrinking with distance? Why doesn't the sun shrink to zero size at the vanishing point?

    A.: Because everybody knows that we can see the sun going down and disappear behind the horizon, while it's diameter is not only not shrinking to zero; rather, it's diameter virtually stays the same.

    Flat-earth model debunked!
    Nope. Try again

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #884 on: December 17, 2021, 11:39:17 AM »
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  • Nope. Try again



    That's sun through the clouds. 

    Try again!

    P.S.: also: that "perspective matrix" video does not show a shrinking sun.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)