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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 74442 times)

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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #735 on: December 14, 2021, 09:33:58 AM »
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    • Quote
    Here is the video with the mountain experiment.  The curvature of the earth doesn't exist.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/OxIHjjhI3rhh/
    Quo Vadis and Stubborn, I'm not an expert on any of this.  But if you want an intro to globe-earth lies, watch the above video.  You can watch on 1.5 or 1.75 speed.  It's well worth it.


    If you don't want to watch the video then it's kinda lazy to be asking people a lot of questions to "prove" this or that.  Experiments prove what words do not.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #736 on: December 14, 2021, 09:54:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 14, 2021, 09:30:35 AM
    There's more water vapor/humidity right over the ocean (plus waves) vs land, that can obscure long-distances.

    But your argument wasn’t that, it was how far the human eye can see. That is why I mentioned Pikes Peak, there is no water to contend with. Someone else on the forum suggested water vapor and waves already.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #737 on: December 14, 2021, 10:04:41 AM »
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    • I think that a lot of FE adherents are almost taking their position as an article of Faith. I think they need to step back and reevaluate or at least have an open mind to the possibility that they could be wrong. 

    I accept the possibility that I could be wrong, but I have not found a convincing argument yet. 
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #738 on: December 14, 2021, 10:22:16 AM »
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    But your argument wasn’t that, it was how far the human eye can see. That is why I mentioned Pikes Peak, there is no water to contend with. Someone else on the forum suggested water vapor and waves already.
    There is humidity in the air, more or less, depending on the day.  More humidity over an ocean than over land.  More humidity in the air in a tropical jungle vs a dry desert.  This affects what the human eye can see; it also affects what a camera can see. 


    I have no idea what your question is about Pikes Peak.  I don't even know where that is?  What direction are you viewing it from - north, south, east, west?  What season?  Are you viewing it from the road, from a car, from a plane?  More details needed.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #739 on: December 14, 2021, 10:25:01 AM »
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    I accept the possibility that I could be wrong, but I have not found a convincing argument yet.
    Well, there is no "convincing argument" but more like 1,000 arguments.  It requires a study/understanding of how science works, a knowledge of many things.  I'm not the one to explain it; i'm only pointing out errors in globe earth and i'm learning as I go.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #740 on: December 14, 2021, 10:32:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on December 14, 2021, 10:04:41 AM
    I think that a lot of FE adherents are almost taking their position as an article of Faith. I think they need to step back and reevaluate or at least have an open mind to the possibility that they could be wrong.

    I accept the possibility that I could be wrong, but I have not found a convincing argument yet.
    Both FE and GE take their position as an article of faith, as each presupposes various things about the earth.

    For example, presupposing a globe earth necessitates an explanation on how things remain affixed to the globe, therefore, gravity is used as an explanation. On a flat, stationary plane gravity is not a necessary explanation because the properties of density and buoyancy explain why things fall.

    At least with presupposing FE, you can also appeal to Scripture to support it. As has already been shown in the many threads now on the subject. With GE, you have to reinterpret Scripture to fit the presuppositions of ʝʊdɛօ-Masons and Atheist-materialist scientists, which is absolutely no way to interpret the literal words of Scripture.

    By proclaiming something as an article of faith, you need to recognize just who and what you're placing your faith in.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #741 on: December 14, 2021, 10:38:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 14, 2021, 09:33:58 AM
    Quo Vadis and Stubborn, I'm not an expert on any of this.  But if you want an intro to globe-earth lies, watch the above video.  You can watch on 1.5 or 1.75 speed.  It's well worth it.


    If you don't want to watch the video then it's kinda lazy to be asking people a lot of questions to "prove" this or that.  Experiments prove what words do not.

    Yes, I watched it. He could’ve condensed it into a 15 minute video. He makes a decent point, but there are too many variables that he admits to, especially at the 43 minute mark. This video below, if true, refutes his findings:


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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #742 on: December 14, 2021, 10:38:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on December 14, 2021, 09:12:42 AM
    Again, these are deceptively applied mathematical equations that only work within the sphere of the mind.  None of this actually works to prove what you're attempting to prove in the real world, but then, globe believers never do their own experiments, they copy and paste what appears to be a working conclusion. This is actual working math coupled up with a scenario on earth to appear to prove something it doesn't prove.  I'm not blaming you for being deceptive, just for falling for the deception by posting what you obviously do not understand.     

    I did the same experiment here, where I live. Behind my house I look from 70m above the water at a bay. At a distance of 13km there is a small flat island (200m x 50m). If I go down to the beach, the island is at 12km, and I am 2m above the water. From the beach, I can't see the island. This corresponds to the calculated numbers in the above example calculation. From the beach, the visual range is just 5km.

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #743 on: December 14, 2021, 10:39:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on December 14, 2021, 10:04:41 AM
    I think that a lot of FE adherents are almost taking their position as an article of Faith. I think they need to step back and reevaluate or at least have an open mind to the possibility that they could be wrong.

    I accept the possibility that I could be wrong, but I have not found a convincing argument yet.

    I don't think so.  Most FE "adherents" were initially very skeptical when first being exposed to the subject, as was I.  Most FE adherents became such after looking at tons and tons of evidence "with an open mind".  What I haven't seen is a convincing refutation of the Flat Earth position from the globe believers.

    If anyone clings to it like a religious belief, it's the globe "adherents".  98% of them could not cite a single proof for round earth.  It's just what they were taught, and they came to believe in the space program, and it's all they need.  But they won't actually look at the evidence with an open mind.

    So what don't you find unconvincing about "Mountain of Evidence"?  Guy who did that video was a huge skeptic and even after his results said he couldn't quite "take the leap" even though the evidence clearly indicates that the earth is flat.  I was the same way.  I sat on the fence for nearly two years, but it finally got to a point that the weight of evidence in favor of Flat Earth was simply overwhelming.  99% of the glober "refutations" were unconvincing, involving all kinds of logical fallacies:  straw men, appeals to authority, etc.

    And the ONLY refutation globers have to "we see too far" is "refraction", but that has been thoroughly rebutted by countless FE adherents ... and is entirely unconvincing.

    Have you taken the time to look at a lot of the real evidence out there or do you not even bother because you're ruled it out from the very beginning.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #744 on: December 14, 2021, 10:42:01 AM »
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    He makes a decent point, but there are too many variables that he admits to, especially at the 43 minute mark.
    ??  What variables?  A difference of 20-30 ft of a mountain's height in no way explains the missing curvature of 770 feet!  You obviously missed the point of the video.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #745 on: December 14, 2021, 10:42:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 14, 2021, 10:25:01 AM
    Well, there is no "convincing argument" but more like 1,000 arguments.  It requires a study/understanding of how science works, a knowledge of many things.  I'm not the one to explain it; i'm only pointing out errors in globe earth and i'm learning as I go.

    But Pax, you’re learning from people like that Dubay freak not some knowledge Catholic who is a scientist or has a science background. Why do you give these unknown nobodies so much credibility?
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #746 on: December 14, 2021, 10:48:46 AM »
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    But Pax, you’re learning from people like that Dubay freak not some knowledge Catholic who is a scientist or has a science background. Why do you give these unknown nobodies so much credibility?
    You don't know anything about me.  First time I've ever heard about Dubay was on this thread.  He has nothing to do with that guy's video on the lack of curvature.  I'm open to flat land/dome earth because of the following reasons:
    1.  History shows many, many civilizations believed in a flat land/dome earth model.  Why was there such uniformity in belief?  Because they all lived post-flood and learned from Noe.
    2.  Many Church Fathers, including St Augustine (who was no dummy) debated the issue and considered flat land/dome earth.
    3.  Modern science (since the 1600s) is openly anti-catholic and anti-God; the same people who promote heliocentricism/globe earth promote evolution and Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.
    4.  Modern science is wrong (and proven so) on many things.
    5.  Common sense and amateur scientists indicate we live on a flat land.


    If there is no curvature in that video, then this raises multiple possibilities:
    1.  NASA/science's circuмference measurements of earth are wrong, which causes curvature measurements to be wrong.
    2.  NASA/science's curvature calcs are wrong.
    3.  There is no curvature at all.

    Either way, the point is, NASA/science is wrong (to some degree).  If one can't admit this, they are blind.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #747 on: December 14, 2021, 11:25:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on December 14, 2021, 10:42:10 AM
    But Pax, you’re learning from people like that Dubay freak not some knowledge Catholic who is a scientist or has a science background. Why do you give these unknown nobodies so much credibility?
    "But Thomas, you're learning from people like that Aristotle freak and Plato, not some knowledge [sic] Catholic scientist or has a science background. Why do you give these pagans so much credibility?"

    You and Marion have heard of Dubay, and keep pointing at him, obviously he isn't a "nobody". No one here has pointed to him as an authority on anything. He simply puts together some good proofs in favor of FE. Stop using him as a strawman.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #748 on: December 14, 2021, 11:34:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on December 14, 2021, 11:25:52 AM
    "But Thomas, you're learning from people like that Aristotle freak and Plato, not some knowledge [sic] Catholic scientist or has a science background. Why do you give these pagans so much credibility?"

    You and Marion have heard of Dubay, and keep pointing at him, obviously he isn't a "nobody". No one here has pointed to him as an authority on anything. He simply puts together some good proofs in favor of FE. Stop using him as a strawman.

    When I was first starting to believe that the earth could be flat, I was against Dubay, since he's a pagan. But I eventually realized that even pagans can put together that the earth is flat, from a scientific POV. Even though Dubay's so-called spiritual views are dreadful. 

    Also, there are essentially no Catholic scientists who have sincerely researched FE, that I know of. 
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #749 on: December 14, 2021, 11:37:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 14, 2021, 10:39:25 AM
    What I haven't seen is a convincing refutation of the Flat Earth position from the globe believers.

    To the extent the "FE position" has a model, you've been given several counter-arguments.

    At the same time, you can't or won't post your alleged "evidence" for review.

    Can you at least grasp that someone might have looked into FE - possibly more deeply than you - and came out considering it a combination of unconvincing, incoherent, and simply wrong?

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    So what don't you find unconvincing about "Mountain of Evidence"? 

    Do YOU find it correct and convincing?

    If mistakes were pointed out to you, would you argue that they are not mistakes? or even if they were, there are still 100 other "proofs" you find totally convincing but won't bother telling us about in any detail?

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    99% of the glober "refutations" were unconvincing, involving all kinds of logical fallacies:  straw men, appeals to authority, etc.
    Would it surprise you that that description sounds a lot like FEers?

    You need to have an open mind, too, Lad. That includes admitting - at least to yourself - that you may have been duped by "FE" arguments. It's OK, it happens, especially outside one's field.
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