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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 151112 times)

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Offline Marion

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #435 on: December 07, 2021, 05:51:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 07, 2021, 05:31:52 PM
    So then it becomees a question of science, and I'm following the scientific evidence.

    And you keep your "scientific evidence" well hidden, to avoid being debunked, like all the other "experts" in this thread, who different from your magic method dared to present their "evidence".

    :jester::jester::jester:
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #436 on: December 07, 2021, 05:56:47 PM »
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    • Sorry, mistake, I forgot. Ladislaus was the one posting that youtube moron as evidence.

    :facepalm:
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #437 on: December 07, 2021, 06:19:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stanley N on December 07, 2021, 05:38:47 PM
    Doesn't matter how the sun or moon may or may not move - this is about how the moon is observed by humans on earth.

    Though FE proponents rarely say anything specific, nearly everything FE I've seen proposed would mean the moon would be observed differently at different longitudes, as well as differently at the same location at different times during the night. Have you ever seen that?

    Except that it's not a sphere and is much closer to the earth than claimed.

    Again, I love it how Tycho's crater, with a diameter of 80km, can be seen with a pair of binoculars ... or even the naked eyed ... from about 260,000 miles away.

    :laugh1:

    Nor is it even a solid body.  I've posted videos, which included references to astronomers who have observed the phenomenon, that stars can be seen THROUGH the dark face of the moon.  Absolutely impossible if it's a solid sphere.  That's all the evidence required to debunk sciences claims about the moon.

    On top of that, people have repeatedly measured the temperature in moonlight and it's always cooler in moonlight than in moon shade.  Full moon is spotted visible at the same time as the sun, and eclipses take place with the sun in the sky.  All of this demonstrates that the moon isn't reflecting sunlight but gives off its own light somehow.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #438 on: December 07, 2021, 06:22:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 07, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
    Except that it's not a sphere and is much closer to the earth than claimed.

    That's the problem, Lad. If the moon were "much closer" to a "flat earth", then it would look different during the night as the moon "moves" over the "flat earth".

    Have you ever seen that?

    Your sidetracking about alleged "transparency" has nothing to do with this.

    Quote from: Ladislaus on December 07, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
    On top of that, people have repeatedly measured the temperature in moonlight and it's always cooler in moonlight than in moon shade.  Full moon is spotted visible at the same time as the sun, and eclipses take place with the sun in the sky.  All of this demonstrates that the moon isn't reflecting sunlight but gives off its own light somehow.

    You're just repeating yourself without addressing the responses that have previously been made to your nonsense.

    Of course the moon is sometimes visible during daylight. So what?

    Obviously, solar eclipses occur during daylight. Lunar eclipses can also take place during daylight, though it's rather uncommon.

    And please pick any video you would like about one of these "cold moonlight" things for review. They all make experimental errors, and sometimes are just simply invalid.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #439 on: December 07, 2021, 06:39:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stanley N on December 07, 2021, 06:22:12 PM
    That's the problem, Lad. If the moon were "much closer" to a "flat earth", then it would look different during the night as the moon "moves" over the "flat earth".

    Have you ever seen that?

    That would depend entirely on what it is that we're seeing and what the cause of the light is and what the cause is of what appear to be the features on the moon.  We have no idea.  But we can see stars through the darkened part of whatever it is.  Impossible.  Nor could you see an 80-km crater on the moon from 260,000 miles away, without a powerful telescope.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #440 on: December 07, 2021, 06:40:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 07, 2021, 06:39:24 PM
    That would depend entirely on what it is that we're seeing

    You're claiming the moon is some object that looks the same from different directions?

    If it were a featureless sphere, OK. But, it has features.

    So what sort of object do you propose it to be?

    Quote from: Ladislaus on December 07, 2021, 06:39:24 PM
    But we can see stars through the darkened part of whatever it is.
    Assumes facts not in evidence.
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #441 on: December 07, 2021, 06:47:01 PM »
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    • Now we got Nishant to defend our cause, now we lost.

    :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


    Thank you all, defenders of globe earth, you all helped to let the flat-earth crowd stand out as what they are.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #442 on: December 07, 2021, 06:48:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nishant Xavier on December 07, 2021, 06:42:15 PM
    Come out of it, Flat-Earthers! The Infant Jesus of Prague shows you clearly that the Earth is a Globe, as Sacred Scripture and the Church Fathers have taught, and you Flat-Earthers are clearly mistaken and completely clueless for denying this.





    If Jesus were holding the earth alone, this depiction would be false because the heavenly part of creation would be missing.  Jesus holds the globus cruciger, the entirety of creation, to include heaven, hell and flat earth in the center.     


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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #443 on: December 07, 2021, 06:52:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stanley N on December 07, 2021, 06:40:31 PM
    You're claiming the moon is some object that looks the same from different directions?

    If it were a featureless sphere, OK. But, it has features.

    But it's unknow what the features are or what causes them.  And there is in fact some change due to perspective, referred to as lunar libration.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #444 on: December 07, 2021, 06:57:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 07, 2021, 06:52:32 PM
    But it's unknow what the features are or what causes them.  And there is in fact some change due to perspective, referred to as lunar libration.

    Which is small, and explained by the standard cosmology, but not by FE "models". You undermine FE even bringing it up.

    And can you come up with ANY thing that would vary how the moon is ACTUALLY observed and is consistent with a FE "model"?
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #445 on: December 07, 2021, 06:57:37 PM »
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    • Laughable, embarrassing, juvenile.  Only a programmed indoctrinated fool would believe this "live" view of earth is reality.  These are photos over which the mechanical show-arm passes to give the impression the shot is live.  The clouds never move.  The water is plastic looking, as if at times they are gliding over a model.  Consider the curve itself.  If you complete the "sphere" by tracing the missing circle, the earth turns out to be the size of a model. 

    Globers be like, "Proof!"

    :laugh1:
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #446 on: December 07, 2021, 07:02:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on December 07, 2021, 06:57:37 PM


    Laughable, embarrassing, juvenile.  Only a programmed indoctrinated fool would believe this "live" view of earth is reality.  These are photos over which the mechanical show-arm passes to give the impression the shot is live.  The clouds never move.  The water is plastic looking, as if at times they are gliding over a model.  Consider the curve itself.  If you complete the "sphere" by tracing the missing circle, the earth turns out to be the size of a model. 

    Globers be like, "Proof!"

    :laugh1:


    Your try to appear wise is called strawman fallacy. Typically applied by wounded and threatened animals with no other way out.

    You present your own idiot ideas as if they were arguments of the opponents, to then try and destroy them.

    Are you aware how ridiculous this is? I tell you: As ridiculous as your railroad expertise shown a few pages ago.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #447 on: December 07, 2021, 07:09:23 PM »
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    • Quote
    The monk Bede (c. 672–735) wrote in his influential treatise on computus, The Reckoning of Time, that Earth was round. He explained the unequal length of daylight from

    "the roundness of the Earth, for not without reason is it called 'the orb of the world' on the pages of Holy Scripture and of ordinary literature. It is, in fact, set like a sphere in the middle of the whole universe." (De temporum ratione, 32)
    The latin word that Bede uses is "pila".  It can mean ball, sphere.  It can ALSO mean mortar, pier, pillar, pile.

    The point is, this is not very descriptive.  But if we look for other parts where St Bede describes roundness, he envisions that the heavens (i.e. atmosphere) make up part of this sphere, not simply the land mass.  See below, he uses the word "gyrum":

    Ch 16:  He says "the gyre of the heavens, perfectly round at every point, is bound by the line of the zodiacal circle...adjacent to each other on a sort of girdle wrapped around a very large sphere."

    Seems to me, he's including the heavens in the overall globe sphere, and the zodiac circle wraps around the heavens.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #448 on: December 07, 2021, 07:10:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on December 07, 2021, 07:02:57 PM

    Your try to appear wise is called strawman fallacy. Typically applied by wounded and threatened animals with no other way out.

    You present your own idiot ideas as if they were arguments of the opponents, to then try and destroy them.

    Are you aware how ridiculous this is? I tell you: As ridiculous as your railroad expertise shown a few pages ago.
    Mm hmm.  
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #449 on: December 07, 2021, 07:15:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 07, 2021, 07:09:23 PM
    The latin word that Bede uses is "pila".  It can mean ball, sphere.  It can ALSO mean mortar, pier, pillar, pile.

    The point is, this is not very descriptive.  But if we look for other parts where St Bede describes roundness, he envisions that the heavens (i.e. atmosphere) make up part of this sphere, not simply the land mass.  See below, he uses the word "gyrum":

    Ch 16:  He says "the gyre of the heavens, perfectly round at every point, is bound by the line of the zodiacal circle...adjacent to each other on a sort of girdle wrapped around a very large sphere."

    Seems to me, he's including the heavens in the overall globe sphere, and the zodiac circle wraps around the heavens.


    Bede says "Terram globo similem":


    Quote
                 
     
    Beda, De natura rerum, p1, CAPUT XLV. Terrae positio. <<<     >>> CAPUT XLVII. De Circulis terrae.hide dictionary links

    PRAEFATIO.


    (PL 90 0264A) CAPUT XLVI. Terram globo similem.

    Orbem terrae dicimus, non quod absoluti orbis sit forma, in tanta montium camporumque disparilitate, sed cuius amplexus, si cuncta linearum comprehendantur ambitu, figuram absoluti orbis efficiat. (0265A) Inde enim fit ut septentrionalis plagae sidera nobis semper appareant, meridianae nunquam; rursusque haec illis non cernantur, obstante globo terrarum. Septentriones non cernit Troglodytice, et confinis Aegyptus, nec Canopum Italia: quamvis eiusdem orbis pene dimidio maior pars ab oriente ad occasum, quam a meridie ad septentrionem habitetur: hinc calore, illinc rigore prohibente accessum.

    84w 0.45170187950134 s
    http://www.mlat.uzh.ch/MLS/xanfang.php?tabelle=Beda_cps2&corpus=2&allow_download=0&lang=0
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