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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 151554 times)

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Offline Tradman

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #405 on: December 07, 2021, 03:56:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Romulus on December 07, 2021, 03:44:42 PM
    Has anyone responded to the constellation obection? How you can only see the northern star in the northern hemisphere and constellations that can be seen in Aussie land can't be seen from the USA or Europe.
    This is my understanding: Australia is on the outer edge of the earth, far enough that the stars that sit low on the horizon, are too low in the firmament for the eye to resolve for the angle of resolution.  It's the same reason we can't see across Kansas.       
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    Offline Romulus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #406 on: December 07, 2021, 03:57:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 07, 2021, 03:51:46 PM
    Because the stars are much, much closer to earth than we think.  And telescopes aren't as powerful as we think.  So stars in the southern hemisphere can't be seen by the northern hemisphere because...they are too far away.
    Why are people at the equator able to see the northern star near the horizon.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #407 on: December 07, 2021, 03:58:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 07, 2021, 03:51:46 PM
    Because the stars are much, much closer to earth than we think.

    What is your evidence for this statement?
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #408 on: December 07, 2021, 04:05:36 PM »
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    What is your evidence for this statement?
    What is the evidence that they are millions of "light years" away?  How does one measure millions of miles, much less "light years"?  The same people who peddle these lies work for the devil - they are out to elevate humanity, elevate science, elevate human knowledge - all in opposition to Faith, Scripture and common sense.  They create complex lies so they can control knowledge, control education and control the people.  They hate God and they hate Truth.
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    Offline Romulus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #409 on: December 07, 2021, 04:06:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stanley N on December 07, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
    What is your evidence for this statement?
    Probably conjecture. Like the dark celestial bodies and such.
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    Offline Romulus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #410 on: December 07, 2021, 04:06:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 07, 2021, 04:05:36 PM
    What is the evidence that they are millions of "light years" away?  How does one measure millions of miles, much less "light years"?  The same people who peddle these lies work for the devil - they are out to elevate humanity, elevate science, elevate human knowledge - all in opposition to Faith, Scripture and common sense.  They create complex lies so they can control knowledge, control education and control the people.  They hate God and they hate Truth.
    That isn't what he asked
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #411 on: December 07, 2021, 04:22:01 PM »
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    Probably conjecture.
    :confused:  Which came first - flat land/sphere earth model of all ancient civilizations, or... the 15th century, atheistic, planetary lie?


    Which came first - the idea of a (relatively speaking) small sun/moon/stars, which rotated above the earth...or the modern, atheistic, freemasonic "light years away" heliocentric lie?

    Modern astronomy made most of this crap up, but I have to "prove" it's wrong?  :jester:
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #412 on: December 07, 2021, 04:27:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on December 07, 2021, 03:27:43 PM
    The title of the chapter of Bede's work on these topics says: the earth is similar to a globe.
    The blog article that I posted up thread (and Pax Vobis dismissed) had a quote from Bede that made it very clear just what he meant by "sphere".

     
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    Around 723 or 725, the monk Bede explained to his students:

    ‘The reason why the same days are of unequal length is the roundness of the Earth, for not without reason is it called ‘‘the orb of the world’’ on the pages of Holy Scripture and of ordinary literature. It is, in fact, a sphere set in the middle of the whole universe. It is not merely circular like a shield [or] spread out like a wheel, but resembles more a ball, being equally round in all directions ...’ (Bede, The Reckoning of Time, translated by Faith Wallis (Liverpool University Press, 1999), p. 91).

    This plainly says that it is a ball that is equally round in all directions.  But PV just won't let go of his belief that sphere does not necessarily mean sphere.

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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #413 on: December 07, 2021, 04:27:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 07, 2021, 03:16:08 PM
    *sigh* But St Bede wasn't from Medieval times, but 500 years before.  What evidence is there to suggest he viewed sphere earth in the same way as Aristotle or Ptolemy?

    Or...could one interpretation of "sphere" refer to the atmosphere dome?
    .
    No. The atmosphere is not the earth. The earth is made of rock, dirt, water, trees, and so on. The atmosphere is made of gas. I really don't understand why you are so confused about the meaning of such simple terms.
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    Thirdly, what evidence is there to suggest that St Augustine viewed "sphere" in the same way as Aristotle?  Further, Did St Bede reference St Augustine? Just because they used the word "sphere" doesn't mean they meant the same thing.
    .
    The word "sphere" has a single, universally understood meaning. You are the only person in this thread who seems to have trouble understanding the meaning of such common words as "earth", "air", "atmosphere", "flat", "round" and "sphere".
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #414 on: December 07, 2021, 04:33:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on December 07, 2021, 04:27:30 PM
    ..
    The word "sphere" has a single, universally understood meaning. You are the only person in this thread who seems to have trouble understanding the meaning of such common words as "earth", "air", "atmosphere", "flat", "round" and "sphere".
    He also does not know what the word "consistent" means or what the phrase "medieval period" refers too.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #415 on: December 07, 2021, 04:34:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on December 07, 2021, 10:39:30 AM
    Almost everyone was taught from the same textbook for centuries.  De Sphaera was that popular.  Earth being a sphere was not controversial.  Discussion and debate centered on movement of celestial bodies.  Copernicus is an example that most are aware of. 

    Still waiting for you to prove that it was used for centuries. Please explain when, where, and by whom it was used; otherwise, I assume that you are just are just making it up. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #416 on: December 07, 2021, 04:37:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 07, 2021, 04:05:36 PM
    What is the evidence that they are millions of "light years" away?  How does one measure millions of miles, much less "light years"?  The same people who peddle these lies work for the devil - they are out to elevate humanity, elevate science, elevate human knowledge - all in opposition to Faith, Scripture and common sense.  They create complex lies so they can control knowledge, control education and control the people.  They hate God and they hate Truth.

    So, no evidence. Got it.

    Apparently your grade school science teacher didn't "teach" you much science.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #417 on: December 07, 2021, 04:38:01 PM »
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    • All of you are interpreting "sphere" to mean what you want it to mean.  St Bede did not describe it as concretely as you imagine.  These 2 images also fit into his description.  Again, when one view the world FROM THE SIDE VIEW (i.e. horizontally), this also looks like a sphere.

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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #418 on: December 07, 2021, 04:41:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on December 07, 2021, 04:34:30 PM
    Still waiting for you to prove that it was used for centuries. Please explain when, where, and by whom it was used; otherwise, I assume that you are just are just making it up.
    Any article about De Sphaera Mundi will give you this information.  Just go look it up.  If I tell you, you will just make excuses to dismiss it.

    I have been in too many discussions with you to take this as an honest request for information.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #419 on: December 07, 2021, 04:42:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on December 07, 2021, 04:41:34 PM
    Any article about De Sphaera Mundi will give you this information.  Just go look it up.  If I tell you, you will just make excuses to dismiss it.

    The burden of proof falls on you. You are not being honest about the book. I highly doubt that you can show when, where and by whom it was used throughout the centuries that you describe. Without this proof, which should be verifiable if true, you do not have a case.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29
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