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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 151114 times)

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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #330 on: December 06, 2021, 07:31:52 PM »
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    • You just keep contradicting yourself.  You said that


    Quote
    St Bede's proofs of the earth being a sphere... are similar to those used by Sacrobosco


    You also said:

    Quote
    At the time, Ptolemy was considered a greater science authority than St. Bede.

    It can't be both. 
    If Sacrobosco used St Bede's arguments, then why would Sacrobosco consider Ptolemy a greater authority?  It makes no sense.

    The only thing they agreed on was the conclusion:  The earth is a sphere.  But there is no proof that St Bede's reasons agreed with Sacrobosco or Ptolemy.  Since there is no consistency in reasoning, then it is erroneous to say there is a consistency in "teaching".  Just because conclusions are the same does not mean the logic/teaching is the same.

    ---
    Example:  2 guys both have Ford trucks and both sell the trucks because "Ford trucks are awful." 
    Guy #1 is selling his truck because it constantly breaks down and he's had similar issues with different Fords in the past.
    Guy #2 is selling his truck because it doesn't have the towing power it claimed to have in the advertisement.  The truck runs fine, it's just not powerful enough for him.

    These are 2 totally different reasons why "Ford stinks", even if the conclusion is the same.  But to say that both guys "agree" on why Ford stinks is retarded and illogical.

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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #331 on: December 06, 2021, 07:52:16 PM »
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    • Conclusion:  St Bede hypothesized that the earth was a sphere, but only mentioned this briefly.  He did not explain his proofs or reasoning.

    Then 500 years later, this new guy comes along "the most gifted thinker of the time" and teaches that the earth is a sphere, based on the pagan greeks and the jooish islamic heretics.  This new guy sets the stage for Galileo and heliocentrism a few centuries later and all his books are circulated in all the universities.

    Sounds like an infiltrator to me.  Does he base his book on Scripture?  No.  How about the Church Fathers?  No.  How about pagans and islam?  Sure, that works.  :facepalm:
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #332 on: December 06, 2021, 08:19:04 PM »
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    • Pax Vobis, you know next to nothing about this.  All you are doing is twisting the things that I have told you.  There is no point discussing this with you since you have already decided what you are going to believe.

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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #333 on: December 06, 2021, 08:24:13 PM »
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    • Your story is bunk.  Just because two people, 500 years apart, used the word “sphere”, one of whom didn’t explain what he meant, you say it’s a “consistent teaching”.  :jester:  Ridiculous!

    You should be ashamed for comparing St Bede with a heliocentric, Islam-loving infiltrator. 
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #334 on: December 06, 2021, 08:46:35 PM »
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    • Quote
    If I'm standing on a ball that's moving with 1,000 mph and start to walk in the same movement direction with say, 5 mph, I now have an absolute speed of 1,005 mph as viewed from an absolute frame of reference. However from my frame of reference, I only changed my speed by 5 mph, which is quite different. If I now stop and turn around, then happen to start walking against the direction of the ball with the same speed of 5 mph, I'll still only feel the change of speed and I won't feel that my absolute speed is now only 995 mph.


    God is both omnipotent and yet geniusly simple.  He would create a system that is dazzlingly easy to understand yet complex enough to work.  What you describe is full of inefficiency and wasted speed/force.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #335 on: December 06, 2021, 09:06:20 PM »
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    • Spherical earth is not any kind of Catholic "teaching".  It's an opinion that some Catholics have held, likely due to following Aristotle.  Aristotle gave the example of the boat sinking beneath the horizon.  Well, neither Aristotle nor those who followed him, had a Nikon P900/P1000 camera or a telescope so they could easily bring the entire boat back into view.

    This is a matter of science, and I don't need to follow the scientific opinions of even a St. Thomas Aquinas (whose science caused him to misfire a bit on the Immaculate Conception).  There are no theological reasons to believe that the earth is a sphere, and so whatever opinion certain Catholics held about the matter isn't worth much more than that of my next-door neighbor.

    There's solid Scriptural support for a physical firmament.  There's lot of Scripture which suggests that the earth is flat, although admittedly it could be explained as a bit more figurative.  But there's no explaining away the firmament.  But that's as far as it goes.

    It just seems a bit inconsistent, even hypocritical, to dismiss the opinions of the Church Fathers regarding the Genesis account of creation due to supposed "advancements" in science but then claim it's consistent "Catholic teaching" that the earth is a sphere.

    Evidence is mounting that the earth is flat.

    Atheistic modern "Science" rejects much of Sacred Scripture, which clearly teaches, for instance, that the earth was made before the sun and the moon, that there were waters above and below the earth, that man was made from the dust of the earth, etc.  "Science" rejects all that too ... but we know they're dead wrong.
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    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #336 on: December 06, 2021, 09:37:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 06, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
    Spherical earth is not any kind of Catholic "teaching".  It's an opinion that some Catholics have held, likely due to following Aristotle.  Aristotle gave the example of the boat sinking beneath the horizon.  Well, neither Aristotle nor those who followed him, had a Nikon P900/P1000 camera or a telescope so they could easily bring the entire boat back into view.

    This is a matter of science, and I don't need to follow the scientific opinions of even a St. Thomas Aquinas (whose science caused him to misfire a bit on the Immaculate Conception).  There are no theological reasons to believe that the earth is a sphere, and so whatever opinion certain Catholics held about the matter isn't worth much more than that of my next-door neighbor.

    There's solid Scriptural support for a physical firmament.  There's lot of Scripture which suggests that the earth is flat, although admittedly it could be explained as a bit more figurative.  But there's no explaining away the firmament.  But that's as far as it goes.

    It just seems a bit inconsistent, even hypocritical, to dismiss the opinions of the Church Fathers regarding the Genesis account of creation due to supposed "advancements" in science but then claim it's consistent "Catholic teaching" that the earth is a sphere.

    Evidence is mounting that the earth is flat.

    Atheistic modern "Science" rejects much of Sacred Scripture, which clearly teaches, for instance, that the earth was made before the sun and the moon, that there were waters above and below the earth, that man was made from the dust of the earth, etc.  "Science" rejects all that too ... but we know they're dead wrong.
    Something I've been thinking more and more on is that, if we follow ancient cosmology, the "Universe" (the Sphere of Creation) before and after The Great Flood is probably drastically different. It was thought that there was water above IIRC. There's some interesting implications here, Earth could also have drastically changed as well.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #337 on: December 06, 2021, 10:04:52 PM »
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    • Andrea-Previtali-Salvator-Mundi-1519-oil-on-poplar-61-6-x-53-cm-National-Gallery

    A flat earth-plane encapsulated within a watery "globe", with a solid Firmament overhead.
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #338 on: December 06, 2021, 10:21:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on December 06, 2021, 10:04:52 PM
    Andrea-Previtali-Salvator-Mundi-1519-oil-on-poplar-61-6-x-53-cm-National-Gallery

    A flat earth-plane encapsulated within a watery "globe", with a solid Firmament overhead.


    You could as well use an arrow and the letters "mothball" to try and make people believe that the globus cruciger is a cross-bearing mothball.
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    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #339 on: December 06, 2021, 10:28:58 PM »
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    • Here's the real physical Reichsapfel of the Holy Roman Empire:


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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #340 on: December 06, 2021, 10:35:18 PM »
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    • Here's the pagan Roman antetype:




    The pagan world was a heavy load. (The guy is Atlas.)


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    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #341 on: December 06, 2021, 10:52:08 PM »
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    • How could Atlas hold a globe rotating at 1,000 miles per hour?  And how do you hold something that’s also supposed to be orbiting the sun?  :jester:
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #342 on: December 06, 2021, 10:59:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 06, 2021, 10:52:08 PM
    How could Atlas hold a globe rotating at 1,000 miles per hour?  And how do you hold something that’s also supposed to be orbiting the sun?  :jester:


    Stop sidetracking! That's dishonest. Discuss your problems elsewhere.
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    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #343 on: December 06, 2021, 11:00:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 06, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
    There's lot of Scripture which suggests that the earth is flat, although admittedly it could be explained as a bit more figurative.

    That's all what flat earthers have done so far in this thread (besides sidetracking): suggesting, putting untenable ideas into their mind.

    Rather uneducated with respect to geometry, technics, detection of moronic youtubers, and Catholic history, all we hear from flat earthers are ignorant suggestions, trying to make the fictions of godless charlatans work, even against all medieval Catholic scholars.

    Which side are you on?


    Quote from: Is 40:22
    Qui sedet super gyrum terræ, et habitatores ejus sunt quasi locustæ: qui extendit velut nihilum cœlos, et expandit eos sicut tabernaculum ad inhabitandum.

    It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.
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    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #344 on: December 06, 2021, 11:33:31 PM »
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    • Quote
    Stop sidetracking!
    If you quit posting pagan garbage, I’ll quit making fun. 
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