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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 52309 times)

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Offline Dankward

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #225 on: December 05, 2021, 07:16:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on December 05, 2021, 07:05:56 PM
    [...]
    Tradman seems to be unaware of the fact, that steel bars of whatever size and profile, bend like spaghetti, if their length is sufficently greater than the dimensions of the transverse section.

    C'mon, you're trying to take the mickey of the readers. Rail is laid curved on curved terrain, but it won't adapt to globe earth curvature, which is virtually zero for any 120 meters rail unit?



    Please wind to 2'40", or use this link: https://youtu.be/XwiNaHmOscU?t=160

    Rail bending in y-direction. (Note that the steel rail is flexible like spring steel.)

    Go to 8''15" to see the steel rail swinging like spring steel: https://youtu.be/XwiNaHmOscU?t=495
    Good points and very cool video Marion, this should really conclude the "railway tracks on a globe Earth" argument here for good.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #226 on: December 05, 2021, 08:09:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on December 05, 2021, 11:41:40 AM



    Not wanting to take anything at face value that I saw on the internet, I went and looked up many of these poeple, and they do exist.  So, for instance, the Judith Resnick who's now a law professor, exactly the same birth year / age as the original.  Giving a lecture, she had the exact same mannerisms as video footage from the astronaut version exhibited back in the day.  These others claim to be "twins"  What are the odds that 3 out of 7 would just happen to have identical twins?    Due to all the NASA fraud, I am simply unnable to take anything they tell us at face value.  There's tons of obviously faked footage from "ISS" out there as well, including air bubbles floating up during "space walks" ... demonstrating that they are being filmed under water.
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #227 on: December 05, 2021, 08:11:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on December 05, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
    Not true. Freight train rail cannot go more than 2% above grade. You are not showing freight train rail. Passenger trains are lighter and don't need to take the flat earth into account. They carry people - not heavy freight.

    And one more flat earth railroad specialist.  :fryingpan:

    A standard rail of 120 meters length on globe earth, deviates vertically from a rail of 120 meters length on flat earth by 1.13 millimeters. That's a gradient of less than 0,001%. or 0,01‰, or 10ppm (parts per million). One could say: as flat as flat can be.

    deviation = √(L2 + R2)

    L = 120m (length of the rail)
    R =  6,371,000m (globe radius)

    Were you fooled by Eric Dubay, or by Tradman? The latter said: "A mere 50 miles of track must curve downward about 1/2 mile." Sounds monumental, but is misleading. One might be mislead, thinking: that's a gradient of 1%.

    But that gradient of 1% is the gradient of a straight flat tunnel through globe earth connecting two surface points A and B. The gradient along the curve on the surface of globe earth is zero, zilch (Stanley N mentioned this before). If you had 100% straight (and not like in real reality spaghetti) rails, with a kink every 120 meters (typical standard rail length), then the gradient would be 0.001% and no problem for whatever max. 2% freight train.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #228 on: December 05, 2021, 08:27:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on December 05, 2021, 07:05:56 PM
    Refuted using two images.

    You have not provided a single image or argument to refute the fact that each piece of railroad track is level and collectively cannot curve around a ball, and your lack of explanation for what you do think shows you are incapable of understanding the simplest facts without resorting to ridiculous argumentation and personal attacks.  Haven't got the time.         
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #229 on: December 05, 2021, 08:34:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 05, 2021, 11:08:00 AM
    THIS^^^ right here is the primary go-to "argument" against flat earth ... ridicule.  And that by itself speaks volumes.  People have been progammed into believing it.  95% of the population, if asked to provide evidence for why the earth is a globe, come up empty.  At most you'll get the old "ships disappear over the horizon" and "NASA has pictures of the earth", but that's only in the 5% who have any answer at all.

    :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

    I laughed at Meg, who first said: globe earthers don't do their research. And then she showed that the truth is: she doesn't do her's.

    Our railway experts have shown that they don't have any basic technical know-how, at all, and that they fall for flat-earth nonsense explications because of that ignorance.
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #230 on: December 05, 2021, 08:48:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman
    without resorting to ridiculous argumentation and personal attacks.

    Quote from: Tradman on December 03, 2021, 11:43:28 PM
    They do lay straight track. It is always level and is never curved downward whatsoever.  Have you ever seen rail road track?

    You started off asking whether I have ever seen rail road track.

    I showed you some images and a video which show facts known by most people with any minimum interest in things railroad.

    Stop whining and face facts!





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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #231 on: December 05, 2021, 09:01:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 05, 2021, 06:55:14 PM
    The problem Tradman has with rails on a globe Earth is that of straight beams on a curved surface. This is because he assumes that rails are perfectly straight for hundreds of kilometers on end, like a perfect, idealized straightness with zero deviation.

    This however is not the case, as the picture that Marion posted, of Helsinki Metro Heavy rails  shows. These beams are not perfectly straight, they just bend. Given the sheer size of the globe, this is a non issue in railway planning. It's 0.667 feet of curvature per mile on an idealized perfect globe with an even surface. We can safely disregard that, that's probably less than the height of such a steel beam itself.
    J.C. Bourne in his book, “The History of the Great Western Railway” stated that the entire original English railroad, more than 118 miles long, that the whole line with the exception of the inclined planes, may be regarded practically as level.  The British Parliament Session in 1862 that approved its construction  recorded in Order No. 44 for the proposed railway, “That the section be drawn to the same HORIZONTAL scale as the plan, and to a vertical scale of not less than one inch to every one hundred feet, and shall show the surface of the ground marked on the plan, the intended level of the proposed work, the height of every embankment, and the depth of every cutting, and a DATUM HORIZONTAL LINE which shall be the same throughout the whole length of the work.”
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #232 on: December 05, 2021, 09:04:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on December 05, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
    You started off asking whether I have ever seen rail road track.

    I showed you some images and a video which show facts known by most people with any minimum interest in things railroad.

    Stop whining and face facts!
    Calm down. You have not shown that railroad track is designed to take into account the supposed curvature of earth. I've yet to find railroad track fabricators or engineers who think railroad track is made to bend downward to accommodate earth curvature.  Just to be sure you understand, I'll repeat my last quote.

    J.C. Bourne in his book, “The History of the Great Western Railway” stated that the entire original English railroad, more than 118 miles long, that the whole line with the exception of the inclined planes, may be regarded practically as level.  The British Parliament Session in 1862 that approved its construction  recorded in Order No. 44 for the proposed railway, “That the section be drawn to the same HORIZONTAL scale as the plan, and to a vertical scale of not less than one inch to every one hundred feet, and shall show the surface of the ground marked on the plan, the intended level of the proposed work, the height of every embankment, and the depth of every cutting, and a DATUM HORIZONTAL LINE which shall be the same throughout the whole length of the work.”
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #233 on: December 05, 2021, 09:19:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 05, 2021, 07:16:50 PM
    Good points and very cool video Marion, this should really conclude the "railway tracks on a globe Earth" argument here for good.
    I've already stated that extended railroad track bends, as in sideways, but only in the smallest increments up and down because the train cannot traverse track bending up or down as it has to be 1/2 mile for the first 50 miles. Returning the opposite direction no train would be able to climb back up such a slope.  Not only that, the bend of each track would have to increase over more length in order to accommodate a ball earth.  Otherwise, extending the 1/2 mile to 50 ratio, you only have a slope.  
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #234 on: December 05, 2021, 09:28:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 05, 2021, 07:11:43 PM
    While I agree that something about the Challenger disaster is once again fishy (pity on you NASA), the FE meme supposes that we're on a spinning ball hurling through space, which may very well not be the case with Geocentrism which has a perfectly still Earth in the absolute center of the Universe. This makes most of the points in the meme pointless. Apart from that, most points come from a mind with very little imagination. "Jesus sees the whole world" - almighty God would be limited to a flat disc? Come on. "Sun, Moon and stars in the firmament" - on a globe Earth there is no firmament? Ridiculous. And stars/meteorites falling to Earth works on a globe Earth just as well, trust me :laugh1:

    Speaking of the firmament, as of yet no flat earther could present a credible model how it is that there are two hemispheres of the firmament depending on which hemisphere of the Earth you're watching from. How does that work on FE, how can it magically switch from the northern firmament with Polaris at the top to the southern firmament with Sigma Octantis at the top, depending on your longitude on the FE disc? I'd love to hear some explanations for this.
    The firmament is a dome.  Scripture describes the firmament as a vault and like a tent and that it is bound to the edges of earth.  You can't cover a globe with a dome.  If somehow earth was a ball and the dome covered 1/2, the stars would only be on one side of earth, not the other because scripture says the stars are in the firmament.  If the dome was actually an outer ball wrapping around the globe, it would have to be a structure that extended out over 93,000,000 miles to accommodate the sun. None of these are compatible with reason or scripture.   
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #235 on: December 05, 2021, 09:32:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 05, 2021, 11:08:00 AM
    But even for me, there was initially huge skepticism regarding flat earth due to the programming.  But I decided to give it a chance and start looking at the evidence.  It got to a point that it was basically impossible to refute. 

    What exactly do you deem impossible to refute?


    Quote from: Ladislaus on December 05, 2021, 11:08:00 AM
    One could go on for hours and hours about the phenomena that simply don't add up if we truly live on a spinning ball hurtling at breakneck speeds through the solar system, galaxy, and universe.

    That's a different topic. You say: Galileo is wrong, the Church is wrong, and Eric Dubay is right. If you want to argue for flat earth, please don't mix that up with the Galilei/Church question, or Einstein, or whatever. That's a different topic.



    Quote from: Ladislaus on December 05, 2021, 11:08:00 AM
    I had already come to the conclusion that the earth was stationary and at the center of the universe. But flat?  Yes ... flat, with a solid firmament dome over the top.  Add that to the other scientific hoaxes like evolution or the Big Bang ... all calculated to promote their atheistic agenda.

    What about history? Civilisation on earth was Catholic since at least the Catholic Holy Roman Empire, beginning in A.D. 800. Do you really think that Eric Dubay and you are smarter than all Catholic scholars in the 1000 year Catholic civilisation in Europe?

    Did St. Thomas Aquinas have an atheistic agenda? Did he watch too much TV about fake dinosaurs, fake moon landings, and fake atomic bombs?


    Quote from: Ladislaus on December 05, 2021, 11:08:00 AM
    And now of course we're faced with the COVID hoax.  Follow the "science" they keep telling everyone.  Yeah, sure, the "science".

    It's one hoax, lie, and deception after another.

     :facepalm:

    And you still fall for the virus-lie. Believing that they know that/which specific "virus"es cause what specific diseases. They could as well tell you that storks deliver babies, and you'd believe it.


    But all that's off topic. Readers want to hear, what exactly does Ladislaus deem impossible to refute, with respect to flat earth?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #236 on: December 05, 2021, 10:38:32 PM »
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    But I'm trying to explain to you why this is not a problem. They may be other problems with a globe earth, but this isn't one.

    A railroad rail on a globe earth lies on a circle on that globe.
    Meanwhile, the train stays on the tracks while the earth spins at 1,037 mph.  :laugh1:
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #237 on: December 05, 2021, 10:46:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on December 05, 2021, 09:32:02 PM
    Readers want to hear, what exactly does Ladislaus deem impossible to refute, with respect to flat earth?


    Also this, Ladislaus: do you share the ideas of our flat earth railway experts Tradman and Meg?

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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #238 on: December 05, 2021, 11:53:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on December 05, 2021, 04:46:49 PM
    Because there isn't an "edge" as if the water just pours off into open space. There is a 100-ft ice wall on the circuмference of the plane. You're asking simple questions that have already been covered by countless FEarthers.

    https://tv.gab.com/channel/yafer/view/sorry-antarctica-is-closed-60bb158d366ab51bb7dc9a81

    How exactly are you able to know that there "is a 100-ft ice wall on the circuмference of the plane", if at the same time your link says "sorry-antarctica-is-closed"?

    Strange sort of discourse. Sounds rather imbecile to me. Am I missing something? And how brazen is such an answer to the post of moneil, that you dismiss?

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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #239 on: December 06, 2021, 12:09:18 AM »
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    • Flat earthers, ever heard about Vendée Globe?

    Are they all French NASA agents? Or are they just sailing around Antarctica?




    The routes on globe earth and on flat earth are shown at 2'00". Wind forward, or see there: https://youtu.be/lPfCvZLWKCA?t=120







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