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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 71204 times)

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Offline Dankward

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #900 on: December 17, 2021, 04:20:12 PM »
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    • I just thought of the following simple question: If the Sun starts getting smaller and completely disappears at dusk due to perspective, how is it that we can still see the stars and planets on the firmament with our bare eyes, although they are farther away?

    Oh and also, why can't the Sun be brought back into view with binoculars or a telescope when it disappears? This should be easy to do because it would just be hovering over the flat surface of Earth, right?

    Is there an explanation for this?

    I really don't get how the Sun would work like a spotlight, only lighting a specific conical area beneath it.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #901 on: December 17, 2021, 04:21:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Miser Peccator on December 17, 2021, 04:16:15 PM
    Oh my.

    I think this would be the perfect tool to aid our understanding of this very complex matter:

    Oh my indeed.

    You're saying talking about atoms, etc. sounds like the turbo encabulator, a famous example of technobabble?

    There are ways to see the curvature with your unaided eyes. But not in a small bucket of water.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #902 on: December 17, 2021, 04:25:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Miser Peccator on December 17, 2021, 04:16:15 PM
    I can't afford one so I'll just have to rely on my eyeballs.

    Water.  Doesn't.  Curve.
    How did you measure that? Can you prove that water doesn't curve, or is there an easy way to do it ourselves?

    How can the lower part of this sailing ship disappear behind the water while the upper part stays perfectly visible, if the water is perfectly flat and does not curve?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #903 on: December 17, 2021, 04:25:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on December 17, 2021, 02:54:18 PM
    Every so-called "proof" of the globe earth by "scientists" is the equivalent of trusting medical advice from Fauci.     

    Indeed, THE primary argument of the vast majority of globe earth believers is the appeal from authority.  But this authority has so discredited itself as to completely invalidate that appeal.  So we're left to our own devices.  Science in general, with regard to cosmology, has been entirely discredited, with their mythical Big Bang and Evolution and Relativity ... and all the other theories they try to push down people's throats as proven fact ... as all being driven by an atheistic agenda.  Not all science is invaldated, of course, but anything having to do with the nature and origins of our world have been.

    There was an FE who did "man on the street" interviews, asking people who believed in globe earth if they could offer proofs for it.  Most of them honestly answered no, but that it's just what they were taught.  And of those who made an attempt, it was either the "NASA has pictures of the globe" and the old "boats disappear over the horizon arguments.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #904 on: December 17, 2021, 04:28:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 17, 2021, 04:25:20 PM
    How can the lower part of this sailing ship disappear behind the water while the upper part stays perfectly visible, if the water is perfectly flat and does not curve?

    Why are we still using that?  Ships disappear from the bottom up as they reach the limits of visibility and begin blending in with the horizon.  Video after video has been produced of that exact thing happening and then having the boat come back into full view when the zoom leve is increased.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #905 on: December 17, 2021, 04:33:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 17, 2021, 04:28:51 PM
    Why are we still using that?  Ships disappear from the bottom up as they reach the limits of visibility and begin blending in with the horizon.  Video after video has been produced of that exact thing happening and then having the boat come back into full view when the zoom leve is increased.
    We are still using that because objects that disappear due to perspective get smaller as a whole until they are not visible at all anymore because the viewer cannot resolve them anymore. So if were/are able to zoom in, the complete object would reappear instantly (as in those famous Nikon P9000 videos of e.g. oil rigs reappearing, as a whole, with no part of them being obstructed).

    If an object is only partially visible, that is not because of perspective, but because of occlusion - our view of the object is obstructed by something else.

    Edit: Here, that explains my point better than I can:
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    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #906 on: December 17, 2021, 04:39:58 PM »
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    • Stanley and Dankward,

    If water curved this wouldn't be possible.  They used water to level the Pyramids, the Roman aqueducts and countless buildings.  It's more accurate than a laser.





    "A water level works on the principle that a liquid always seeks its own level, it doesn't matter if the body of water is a bathtub or a lake. As long as there are no outside influences at work (such as the wind or tides), the water at one end of the body of water is the same height as the water at the other end."



    HOW TO MAKE A HOMEMADE WATER LEVEL
    Water levels have been used for thousands of years. The ancient Egyptians used water levels to build the pyramids, and the Romans used them to construct their aqueducts.



    Homemade water level.
    A water level is easy and inexpensive to make, making it perfect for leveling a deck or shed foundation, and more accurate than a carpenter’s level over long distances.

    A water level can also be used around corners that are out of line of sight, something a laser or builder’s level can’t do.

    A water level works on the principle that a liquid always seeks its own level, it doesn’t matter if the body of water is a bathtub or a lake.


    As long as there are no outside influences at work (such as the wind or tides), the water at one end of the body of water is the same height as the water at the other end. A water level simply substitutes a plastic tube for the body of water.

    Here’s how to make your own water level using nothing more than a length of flexible, plastic tubing (available by the foot at home centers in the plumbing department) and two stakes or dowels. We used 3/8″ I.D. tubing for our water, but sizes of 1/4″ I.D. or larger will work as well.

    https://todayshomeowner.com/how-to-make-a-homemade-water-level/
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #907 on: December 17, 2021, 04:42:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 17, 2021, 04:20:12 PM
    I just thought of the following simple question: If the Sun starts getting smaller and completely disappears at dusk due to perspective, how is it that we can still see the stars and planets on the firmament with our bare eyes, although they are farther away?

    Oh and also, why can't the Sun be brought back into view with binoculars or a telescope when it disappears? This should be easy to do because it would just be hovering over the flat surface of Earth, right?

    Is there an explanation for this?

    I really don't get how the Sun would work like a spotlight, only lighting a specific conical area beneath it.
    Let's get back to my rather simple point from above.

    If you think you can zoom a boat back into view after it's gone over the horizon, then you should be able to do the same with the Sun, right?

    So wait 15 minutes after the Sun sets and then try to zoom it back into view and post a photo.

    You can't zoom the Sun back into view. Because the Earth's not flat. QED.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #908 on: December 17, 2021, 04:45:03 PM »
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    • You're completely missing the point.

    The curvature just isn't there. There are tons of videos where people bring boats back 100% (not partway occluded by "the bulge or curvature of the earth") many miles away -- when the curvature should have hidden the boats long ago. Using official calculations.

    Is the Earth 250,000 miles in circuмference now, instead of 25,000?  That would expose the whole mainstream science establishment to be a lie just as much as Flat Earth ever could. Everything, including calculations for "gravity", depends on that official size of the Earth. No one gets to weasel out of this.

    Is the Earth, or is it not, 25K miles in circuмference? It's simple geometry. You have to have so much curvature per mile on a sphere. That can be observed and measured. It has not been. The truth is the truth. Whatever that means, is what it means.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #909 on: December 17, 2021, 05:06:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Miser Peccator on December 17, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
    Stanley and Dankward,

    If water curved this wouldn't be possible.  They used water to level the Pyramids, the Roman aqueducts and countless buildings.  It's more accurate than a laser.
    Water is made up of tiny molecules. It doesn't need to curve. It's like filling sand into a mold. It will fit. Pouring sand onto a ball that attracts the sand is the same as having water on a ball that attracts it.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #910 on: December 17, 2021, 05:12:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 17, 2021, 04:45:03 PM
    You're completely missing the point.

    The curvature just isn't there. There are tons of videos where people bring boats back 100% (not partway occluded by "the bulge or curvature of the earth") many miles away -- when the curvature should have hidden the boats long ago. Using official calculations.

    Is the Earth 250,000 miles in circuмference now, instead of 25,000?  That would expose the whole mainstream science establishment to be a lie just as much as Flat Earth ever could. Everything, including calculations for "gravity", depends on that official size of the Earth. No one gets to weasel out of this.

    Is the Earth, or is it not, 25K miles in circuмference? It's simple geometry. You have to have so much curvature per mile on a sphere. That can be observed and measured. It has not been. The truth is the truth. Whatever that means, is what it means.
    Most all of these curvature calculations are idealized and completely dismiss the fact that there's an atmosphere that bends light depending on density, temperature etc. That's why mirages / Fata Morganas exist and you'll constantly see all kinds of perturbations in such videos.

    The fact that all distant objects do in fact disappear from the bottom up until they're completely hidden all the time proves that the surface we're moving on is not level. Otherwise I could see your house in Texas with a telescope, Matthew.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #911 on: December 17, 2021, 05:13:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 17, 2021, 05:06:04 PM
    Water is made up of tiny molecules. It doesn't need to curve. It's like filling sand into a mold. It will fit. Filling sand on a ball that attracts the sand is the same as having water on a sphere that attracts it.

    Are you flippin' serious? Did someone hack your account?

    You're making this too easy.

    1. Yes, it's like filling sand in a mold. A mold is a CONTAINER for the sand or water. A body of water needs a CONTAINER. That is common sense.

    2. "filling sand" on a ball that "attracts the sand". When has this EVER been observed by ANYONE? You act like such proofs of "gravity" are all around us. No, they are actually completely absent.

    3. For bonus points -- now spin that ball that somehow magically holds sand to its surface, all around (never been observed, but work with me). It would certainly fly off.

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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #912 on: December 17, 2021, 05:14:48 PM »
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    • Quote
    Water is made up of tiny molecules. It doesn't need to curve. It's like filling sand into a mold. It will fit. Filling sand on a ball that attracts the sand is the same as having water on a sphere that attracts it.
    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:...wait, :laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:, on further consideration....:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #913 on: December 17, 2021, 05:29:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 17, 2021, 05:12:26 PM
    Most all of these curvature calculations are idealized and completely dismiss the fact that there's an atmosphere that bends light depending on density, temperature etc. That's why mirages / Fata Morganas exist and you'll constantly see all kinds of perturbations in such videos.

    The fact that all distant objects do in fact disappear from the bottom up until they're completely hidden all the time proves that the surface we're moving on is not level. Otherwise I could see your house in Texas with a telescope, Matthew.

    1. Idealized? No, you're saying math is wrong. Where is the disclaimer by ANY globe-defending organization that those earth curvature calculations are "ideal"? Where does any mainstream scientist deny the real curvature drop given by those calculations?

    2. Mirages are mirages. They aren't MAGIC like some kind of magic wand or Photoshop tool, that magically erases the earth's curvature or bulge, bringing entire city skylines up a hundred miles around the "curved" earth, making them appear perfectly straight up, with no waviness or distortion. Sorry, I'm not buying the crap you're selling. There are no "Refraction Fairies" that magically make the globe earth appear EXACTLY as if it were flat. Give me a break. Occam's razor!

    3. "All distant objects", "all the time". How about we start with ONE example or bit of evidence for this. Nothing from NASA though, for they are proven liars. One of the reasons Globe Earth can't be true. Why would NASA lie so much and go through so much time/effort/expense to deceive us, if all they had to do was take real, honest pictures and tell the truth?
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #914 on: December 17, 2021, 05:32:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 17, 2021, 05:13:07 PM
    Are you flippin' serious? Did someone hack your account?
    :laugh1:
    You should check my IP in the logs to find out  ;)

    Quote
    You're making this too easy.

    1. Yes, it's like filling sand in a mold. A mold is a CONTAINER for the sand or water. A body of water needs a CONTAINER. That is common sense.
    It was not about the cointaining feature of the mold. it was about the fine-grained sand conforming to the shape of the mold, whatever that may be. It was an analogy for the water molecules conforming to the shape of the object that they're being pulled against by gravity.

    Quote
    2. "filling sand" on a ball that "attracts the sand". When has this EVER been observed by ANYONE? You act like such proofs of "gravity" are all around us. No, they are actually completely absent.

    Actually I corrected my wording there - "pouring sand". Well of course we can't create an artificial source of gravity (yet). You act like proofs of gravity are not all around us. The fact that everything is pulled down towards the ground by an invisible force is not enough proof for you that some force that we call gravity exist, whatever may cause it?
    Perhaps some day we'll be able to create a dent in spacetime ourselves :jester: (not serious).

    Quote
    3. For bonus points -- now spin that ball that somehow magically holds sand to its surface, all around (never been observed, but work with me). It would certainly fly off.
    Yes it would probably fly off if the force of attraction of that ball was too low. However the water that is on Earth never underwent the same treatment of suddenly going from 0 to 1470.2 km/h (the tangential speed of rotation for a point on globe Earth).
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