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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 71303 times)

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Offline Marion

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #645 on: December 13, 2021, 08:47:21 AM »
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    • The Erdapfel (pronounced [ˈeːɐ̯tˌʔapfl̩] (About this soundlisten); German for 'earth apple') is a terrestrial globe produced by Martin Behaim from 1490–1492.

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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #646 on: December 13, 2021, 08:53:26 AM »
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    • Quote
    I'm glad you're clear that you're making an assumption the moon is "close".

    The distance to the moon can be measured a couple ways with parallax using ordinary equipment
    And I'm glad you're open about your assumptions as well - that you follow pagan greeks, who ALSO assumed the moon rotated around the earth, instead of over it, as St Bede describes.


    If you change the assumption, you change the math, which changes the distance.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #647 on: December 13, 2021, 09:27:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 13, 2021, 08:53:26 AM
    And I'm glad you're open about your assumptions as well - that you follow pagan greeks, who ALSO assumed the moon rotated around the earth, instead of over it, as St Bede describes.
    If you change the assumption, you change the math, which changes the distance.

    No, actually.  Measuring distance by parallax would still be valid in a flat earth cosmology.

    If you don't think it would be, could you explain why?

    That "pagan Greeks" figured something out doesn't mean it's wrong.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #648 on: December 13, 2021, 09:30:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on December 12, 2021, 10:13:23 PM
    .
    This is false and absurd.

    Pardon the "off-topic" query, but...

    What gives with the . before every single paragraph, at least when discussing certain topics?  Having recently reviewed posts from Neil Obstat, he did the exact same thing (as did the guy I believe Matthew said runs drbo.org, which, for some reason, now steadfastly refuses to connect me) when discussing FE and related topics.  Perhaps it is some reasonably common practice of which I am unaware?  Fair enough.  Perhaps it is not.  Carry on...
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    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #649 on: December 13, 2021, 09:34:56 AM »
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    What gives with the . before every single paragraph,
    Matthew updated the site software a few months ago.  Before that, there was a bug which didn't recognize spaces between paragraphs, so the "." made sure the post had proper spacing.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #650 on: December 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AM »
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    • Pax replied faster than me.

    Yes, Neil frequently put periods in otherwise blank lines so the lines didn't disappear.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #651 on: December 13, 2021, 09:40:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 13, 2021, 09:34:56 AM
    Matthew updated the site software a few months ago.  Before that, there was a bug which didn't recognize spaces between paragraphs, so the "." made sure the post had proper spacing.

    Ah!  Thank you.  Having been mostly absent for the greater part of the past decade, I am unaware of such things.  Many things which I used to do with ease I have yet to figure out within the "new" system.  I was never very tech-savvy and am not likely to ever become such.
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    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #652 on: December 13, 2021, 09:56:09 AM »
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    Measuring distance by parallax would still be valid in a flat earth cosmology.
    It's not valid at all.  Because a parallax requires 1 distance (to either a star or the sun) to be known, in order measure the 2nd object.  That's a false assumption.  I think ALL measurements of planets, stars, etc are debatable because those that measure use foundational errors of heliocentrism.

    Quote
    That "pagan Greeks" figured something out doesn't mean it's wrong.
    True, but their findings have to be taken with a grain of salt, because 1) they don't care about religion/genesis, 2) most of them are heliocentrists.  Same approach to reading a protestant commentary on Scripture...you have to assume they're wrong because their foundation is wrong.
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    Online Yeti

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #653 on: December 13, 2021, 09:56:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 13, 2021, 09:34:56 AM
    Matthew updated the site software a few months ago.  Before that, there was a bug which didn't recognize spaces between paragraphs, so the "." made sure the post had proper spacing.
    Oh, so that problem has been fixed? Great! Now I can stop putting in that stupid . between paragraphs. Let's see if it works ...


    Hey, it worked! All right. Thanks, guy!.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #654 on: December 13, 2021, 09:57:50 AM »
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    • But now it adds additional spaces, which is annoying...
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #655 on: December 13, 2021, 09:58:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on December 13, 2021, 09:56:16 AM
    Oh, so that problem has been fixed? Great! Now I can stop putting in that stupid . between paragraphs. Let's see if it works ...

    Hey, it worked! All right. Thanks, guy!.

    :laugh1:  Glad the enlightening of a small part of my own ignorance has proved beneficial to others!
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    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #656 on: December 13, 2021, 10:03:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 13, 2021, 09:56:09 AM
    It's not valid at all.  Because a parallax requires 1 distance (to either a star or the sun) to be known, in order measure the 2nd object.

    No, parallax does NOT require a distance to either a star or sun to be known.

    It is analogous to depth perception with your two eyes. Each eye get a slightly different view. The distance used for scaling is the distance between your eyes.

    For parallax in astronomy, you need to know the distance between two observers. You don't need to know a priori any other distances.

    Parallax is basically geometry. Two angles and the included side determine a triangle.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #657 on: December 13, 2021, 11:39:10 AM »
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    For parallax in astronomy, you need to know the distance between two observers.
    My point exactly.  What planet/star/sun/moon (i.e. observers) do we know the distance from earth? 
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #658 on: December 13, 2021, 11:49:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 13, 2021, 11:39:10 AM
    My point exactly.  What planet/star/sun/moon (i.e. observers) do we know the distance from earth?

    Two observers ON EARTH. We know the distance between New York and Dallas, right?

    An observer in New York and an observer in Dallas see the moon slightly differently, and from that you can determine distance to the moon.

    It's analogous to your eyes. Your left and right eyes are a couple inches apart and have slightly different views of an object, and that provides you depth perception.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #659 on: December 13, 2021, 11:55:56 AM »
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    • That doesn't make sense either.  You'd have to have a "heavenly" observer to know the distance of another heavenly observer.  Otherwise, it's just a guess.

    We know how to calculate distances on land; we cannot use these distances to extrapolate distances in space.  There's no point of reference.  The distance from NY to Dallas can't tell us about the moon/sun UNLESS there are estimates involved.  It's not exact.

    It's like saying you can calculate the depth of a lake using some distance calculation.  Water magnifies and distorts how things look.  How come it is assumed that outer space doesn't distort distance in some way?  That's kinda naive.
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