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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 159996 times)

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Offline Tradman

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #525 on: December 09, 2021, 02:26:59 PM »
Only a few people have circuмnavigated the (as in ball shape) earth, but those explorations are described and docuмented, as well as those expeditions to space, but “flat earther’s” arbitrarily deny that such explorations have even occurred.  WHERE are the docuмents, journals, charts, navigational references, or descriptions from the “few people (who) have seen where the earth and firmament meet”?  This is what has been asked for, but there is never an answer.

No one denies circuмnavigation explorations have been docuмented and have occurred, what globe thinkers don't realize is that it can all take place on a flat plane, circling around the outside areas.  I provided one docuмent, the encyclopedia reference to the 13,000 foot dome near New Zealand.  But, even if that weren't what it appears, and even if no one at all saw and edge/firmament, we do know that there are efforts to prevent such exploration by the general public since the treaty.  I don't personally think there is definitive proof available, but neither is there proof that earth is a globe.  

Why don’t they go?  In this day and age it should be as simple as chartering a jet liner, as I already explained.  There are also over 1,000 private commercial satellites “orbiting” the earth, not controlled by governmental entities, though some “flat earth” proponents arbitrarily (and without proof) deny that such exist.  Surly though one of those commercial entities could be contracted with to provide pictures and coordinates to prove the “flat earth” hypothesis.

It is absolutely certain that the outer regions of earth are off limits to the general public due to the Antarctic Treaty.
 
Chartering a jetliner and following the flight path I described previously would seem simpler and harder to refute, one wonders why that hasn’t already happened, or won’t soon.
 
The ONLY place where “those features” can possible be is at the “edge”, “rim” or “terminus” of the earth’s plane (if we are assuming it is flat) and “those features” would necessarily comprise the circuмference of the level (i.e., not rounded) earth area, that seems to be pretty defined, no need to say “likely”.

That's right, the edges where they come together with the firmament comprise the outer edge of flat earth, but again, we have a puzzle here and some pieces are not readily available for scrutiny.  We do have other information, for instance, there are no cardinal directions on a ball.  No east or west, or north or south, because no definitive thing exists on a ball.  So how is it that the east is east? East of what? More east? A little west?  East of north, but then how is north, north?  Scripture speaks of ends, edges, and that east and west do not meet up.  That is impossible on a ball.  

Exactly HOW is the earth’s rim (under the “flat earth” hypothesis) “under lock and key with the Antarctic Treaty”?  Firstly, the treaty has only been in effect since 1961, there have been THOUSANDS of years of earth exploration that predate the treaty and were unhindered by it or any other treaty.  Secondly, NOTHING in the treaty puts anything “under lock and key” (PLAIN FACT!), but rather provides for orderly and environmentally sensitive exploration without any one country claiming dominance.  Thirdly, the treaty specifically defines the territory it covers, which DOES NOT include the entire circuмference of the earth area, if we are conceptualizing it as a flat plane.

No, it is def under lock and key.  Now, it is a fact that they do have an area in the south where the public are permitted to peruse, but it is quite limited and highly guarded.

Exploration at the edges has taken place.  There are numerous expeditions prior to the Treaty, but then, as technologies advanced and the need to keep the narrative going, they had to limit snoops.  I gave a link to the book, free to read online, Earth is Not a Globe in another post.  You can google it and there is a lot of information about circuмnavigation of explorers and the scientific measurements they took which prove earth cannot possibly be a globe.   
 
I have already posted the link to the actual text of the Antarctic Treaty, and here it is again https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/antarct/anttrty.jsp.  Read it for yourself and please do not post misinformation (otherwise known as lies).  Let us stick to the observable and verifiable facts.

Sadly, the truth is getting buried as fast as we can uncover it.  There are people or websites, possibly even Youtube videos (although most have been expunged) which will clear up the specifics of how the Treaty really works.  I believe Ladislaus posted something on the consequences of crossing the line down south earlier in this thread.  

Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #526 on: December 09, 2021, 02:46:23 PM »
Globers really have to stop using Eratosthenes.  His experiment was badly flawed.  He made assumptions about the distance between the earth and the sun (which ended up wildly wrong by modern calculations.  I think he said one million miles) and also made no account of the possibility of atmospheric refraction.  I love how the globers constantly pull the "refraction" rabbit out of their hat when it's convenient but then they completely ignore the notion that failing to take it into account invalidates Eratosthenes.  Double standard.
You can still conduct just the same experiment today with the same simple tools and the correct assumption for the distance between Sun and Earth and you'll find that the shadows are still pointing in two different directions, which cannot happen on a flat plane that is lit by a large lightsource (anything but a point-light or similar).

Also if you create a large enough triangle anywhere on Earth (there are multiple ways to do this), then measure the interior angles and add them it should give you 180° (basic geometry of flat triangles) on a flat surface.



However, if you measure the angles in the real world, the sum always turns out to be larger. This can only happen on a sphere. If you cover a full quadrant of the sphere (an octant, actually), you'll get three nice 90 degree angles.


I'm curious to hear what you think about this argument.


Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #527 on: December 09, 2021, 03:27:57 PM »
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."

William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

It is in our faces, everywhere; we just don't see it.  Look at the UN/WHO/etc logos...the flat earth map with NO Antarctica.

Just as the unspeakably-colossal lie/s of the non-Catholic V2 religion are so clear and ubiquitous that most in Traddieland find it hard to believe people can be so blind; just as the endless BS of the (non-existent) Cooties-19 Mind-F*ck is shockingly obvious to those with eyes to see, so is it with FE versus the modern atheistic orthodoxy.

For those with eyes to see, very little argument is necessary; for the willfully blind, no argument can possibly suffice.  Yes, there is plenty of information, just as there is respecting V2, etc.  How much progress is made in that arena via mere conversation and consideration of facts?

I have confidence that everyone here will come to see the truth in the time and in the way that God knows is best.

Godspeed.

Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #528 on: December 09, 2021, 06:06:51 PM »

Captain James Cook in 1773 circuмnavigated Antartica by sailing ...
60,000 miles

By traveling over 60,000 miles (100,000 km), Cook succeeded in proving a negative, and his reputation for precision and reliability was such that his evidence and conclusions were accepted as fact.


Captain Cook Discovers the Ends of the Earth - Encyclopedia ...

The Globe Earth theory for the circuмference of Antartica is 11,000 miles. It appears That Captain Cook sailed the perimeter of the flat earth icewall taking 60,000 miles to do it.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #529 on: December 09, 2021, 10:10:27 PM »


However, if you measure the angles in the real world, the sum always turns out to be larger. This can only happen on a sphere. If you cover a full quadrant of the sphere (an octant, actually), you'll get three nice 90 degree angles.


I'm curious to hear what you think about this argument.

I'm not sure how one would go about measuring this really.  You'd be basing it on a compass, and the moment you make the turn around one of the corners, you'd at that moment be making a 90-degree turn, when you shrink the perspective down.

Flat Earthers have done a lot of study regarding the flight routes in the Souther Hemisphere and they are in fact quite bizarre.  But if you flatten out the map to the Azimuthal Equidistant (aka Flat Earth) map, they suddenly make a great deal of sense.  I heard an interview from a professional pilot would would fly from Austrlia to the U.S. West Coast, and he could never figured out why it would always take him very close to Alaska ... until he saw a flat earth map.

Oh, and another thing.  Have a look at the jet stream on a globe.




Now look at jetstream on a flat map.




Which one makes more sense?