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Author Topic: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?  (Read 151256 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
« Reply #285 on: December 06, 2021, 12:55:50 PM »
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    • Quote
    The earth rotates at about .0007 RPM.
    Seems that heliocentrists love to hide behind non-speed measurements, such as the earth rotates at "x degrees" or "rpm's".  This is just a clever way to hide the illogical idea of an earth spinning at over 1,000 mph.

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    The speedometer said I was going 100 kph, but I had a cup of coffee in the beverage holder, and the coffee wasn't jumping out of the cup.
    Your car is going the same direction/speed as the coffee.  This is not an apples-apples comparison of an earth rotating one direction (at over 1,000 mph) and a train going the opposite direction (at 60 mph).  It makes no sense that this could work.  The train going WITH the rotation of the earth (1,000 + 60 mph = 1,060) would have totally different physics than the train going AGAINST the rotation (-60mph vs 1000 mph = 940 mph).  The train going against the rotation wouldn't be able to move and would be pushed backwards at a very high speed.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #286 on: December 06, 2021, 12:59:11 PM »
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    I can't state often enough that a flat disc Earth is unscientific and unbiblical.
    Again, most people don't define "flat earth" as a flat disc.  To most people, a flat earth = flat terrain/land that people walk on.  They aren't talking about the earth's inner core or atmosphere.  When you include these latter features, then you have a sphere WORLD, and a flat terrain/land.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #287 on: December 06, 2021, 12:59:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on December 06, 2021, 12:42:16 PM
    Nicely stated. Yes, we do have to be careful about research, since, as you say, mistakes are easy to make.

    You mention a checklist for each model. It's quite telling that you cannot find anything of substance regarding the globe model, such as verifiable facts, no repeatable experiments, no support from scripture. And yes, they have to then try to explain away all of the problems that you cite for a supposed globe earth.

    I agree that not having all of the info does not affect what we DO have, which, IMO, doesn't seem like anything of real substance to them. But if it isn't anything, then why do they spend so much time trying to fight against a flat earth?
    Well, I agree with others here: the prospect of dealing with a lie this big is so terrifying they resort to anger, spin and criticism to avoid facing it.
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #288 on: December 06, 2021, 01:00:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on December 06, 2021, 09:01:15 AM
    So, in your utter adherence to truth and objectivity you simply looked at the name of the video rather than actually watch it? :facepalm:

    You can lead a horse to water...
    I skimmed through it. It's about that treaty, I found no info about the ice wall.

    But I looked it up, by now. Info about the ice wall on FE-Wiki: https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Ice_Wall

    So now I get it. You can't go to Antarctica, but the U.S. military provided footage of the Ross Ice Shelf. Not the average flat earther's source, but so be it.





    I found better footage of the Ross Ice Shelf, taken from a vessel:




    In the second half, there seem to appear some extraterrestrial ice mountains, behind the wall.
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    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #289 on: December 06, 2021, 01:03:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on December 06, 2021, 12:35:19 PM
    Did not know that.  Do you have the source and details? 
     It was in the quote I just posed in reply #277.  Didn't you read it the whole post?  You replied to it.

    I gave a quote from Wikipedia, since that is easily accessible.  For more details you could read Christine Garwood's Flat Earth:History of an Infamous Idea.  She has a whole chapter about Rowbotham.  It is quite well researched, using lots of original sources.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #290 on: December 06, 2021, 01:06:49 PM »
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    • Hi JayneK!
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #291 on: December 06, 2021, 01:09:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 06, 2021, 12:21:19 PM
    You are still missing the problem with all of the descriptions.  When you say "sphere" are you talking about

    1) the shape of the physical land/terrain? 
    2) Or are you talking about the shape of the physical land + atmosphere?
    3) Or are you talking about the shape of the physical land, when viewed from above (i.e. looking down from the heavens, viewing land like a map)?
    4) Or are you talking about the shape of the physical land + atmosphere + what's below the land (i.e. inner core)?

    I think you would have a really strong grasp of exactly what the historical Catholic understanding of spherical earth is, if you were to read (even just skim through) De Sphaera Mundi yourself.  I posted a link to an English translation a bit upthread.  

    That way, you don't need to take my word for it and I do not need spend a long time writing a post.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #292 on: December 06, 2021, 01:09:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 06, 2021, 12:55:50 PM
    Seems that heliocentrists love to hide behind non-speed measurements, such as the earth rotates at "x degrees" or "rpm's".  This is just a clever way to hide the illogical idea of an earth spinning at over 1,000 mph.
    Your car is going the same direction/speed as the coffee.  This is not an apples-apples comparison of an earth rotating one direction (at over 1,000 mph) and a train going the opposite direction (at 60 mph).  It makes no sense that this could work.
    While I'm currently holding heliocentrism and geocentrism to be equal from a scientific point of view (just two different conventions regarding two different coordinate systems), the idea of a moving and spinning Earth is not illogical. As you only feel a change in velocity, it's entirely plausible to not feel a thing while standing on a rotating ball that's whizzing through space, as long as the ball doesn't suddenly change it's direction, speed or rate of rotation.

    Or going back to the analogy, the coffee cup has it way worse in the quickly accelerating and decelerating car than humans on a gigantic Earth ball that moves at pretty constant rates (there are slight, subtle changes over the year though).

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    The train going WITH the rotation of the earth (1,000 + 60 mph = 1,060) would have totally different physics than the train going AGAINST the rotation (-60mph vs 1000 mph = 940 mph).  The train going against the rotation wouldn't be able to move and would be pushed backwards at a very high speed.
    You don't seem to have grasped the concept of relativity. If I'm standing on a ball that's moving with 1,000 mph and start to walk in the same movement direction with say, 5 mph, I now have an absolute speed of 1,005 mph as viewed from an absolute frame of reference. However from my frame of reference, I only changed my speed by 5 mph, which is quite different. If I now stop and turn around, then happen to start walking against the direction of the ball with the same speed of 5 mph, I'll still only feel the change of speed and I won't feel that my absolute speed is now only 995 mph.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #293 on: December 06, 2021, 01:16:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on December 06, 2021, 01:06:49 PM
    Hi JayneK!
    Hi Josepha.


    I saw that a Flat Earth discussion had escaped from its proper subforum and I couldn't resist.  I had to hurry up and post before Matthew chases it back in.  :laugh1:
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #294 on: December 06, 2021, 01:19:29 PM »
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    • To all you flat Earth smarty pants, please explain how this works on a flat Earth disc:

    Because in the "outer half" of the supposed disc, you can't see Polaris. Ask people in the "outer half", also called southern hemisphere. They'll tell you that they see an entirely different firmament than the people in the "inner half", also called northern hemisphere, depending on their longitude.

    How do you explain that?

    It's easy in the freemasonic antarctica conspiracy model :jester:
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #295 on: December 06, 2021, 01:21:10 PM »
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    I think you would have a really strong grasp of exactly what the historical Catholic understanding of spherical earth is,
    You're still missing the point.  Calling it "sphere earth" is outdated because unless someone has read what you've read, and knows history, the phrase doesn't give an accurate description, based on the confusion of terms today. 

    If I want to historically accurate, i'd call my car a "motor carriage" but then nobody would know what i'm talking about.  In an exchange of ideas, isn't understanding the idea the point?
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    Offline Romulus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #296 on: December 06, 2021, 01:22:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 06, 2021, 01:19:29 PM
    To all you flat Earth smarty pants, please explain how this works on a flat Earth disc:

    Because in the "outer half" of the supposed disc, you can't see Polaris. Ask people in the "outer half", also called southern hemisphere. They'll tell you that they see an entirely different firmament than the people in the "inner half", also called northern hemisphere, depending on their longitude.

    How do you explain that?

    It's easy in the freemasonic antarctica conspiracy model :jester:

    Oh you silly! The north star is just an illusion caused by the moon reflecting off an Englishman's monocle at a 75 degree angle back up into the firmament so It can only be seen by people of english decent except Australians. 
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #297 on: December 06, 2021, 01:24:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on December 06, 2021, 01:16:43 PM
    Hi Josepha.


    I saw that a Flat Earth discussion had escaped from its proper subforum and I couldn't resist.  I had to hurry up and post before Matthew chases it back in.  :laugh1:

    shhhh.  I think it escaped just because of the thread title.
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #298 on: December 06, 2021, 01:28:44 PM »
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    • Recently, some flat earthers from South Africa landed behind the ice wall on Wolf’s Fang Runway with their Airbus A340.

    Flight: Hi Fly 801 from Cape Town to Antarctica
    Commander: Carlos Mirpuri
    2 November 2021




    Also, you can spend your holidays behind the ice wall, using your own private jet, or chartering one.



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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Is refusing to accept an "obvious fact" a sin of lying?
    « Reply #299 on: December 06, 2021, 01:32:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 06, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
    You're still missing the point.  Calling it "sphere earth" is outdated because unless someone has read what you've read, and knows history, the phrase doesn't give an accurate description, based on the confusion of terms today. 

    If I want to historically accurate, i'd call my car a "motor carriage" but then nobody would know what i'm talking about.  In an exchange of ideas, isn't understanding the idea the point?
    I agree with you about the importance of clear communication but I don't see how it applies here.

    As far as I can tell, what most people understand by "sphere earth" is pretty much what historical Catholics meant by it.  I actually find your terminology difficult to understand.
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