Author Topic: Is NFP "birth control for Catholics"? CAF seems to say Yes! (Read 5406 times)

Capt McQuigg · « **on:** February 28, 2014, 03:18:36 PM »

Reading this thread from Catholic Answers and the posters are all speaking of avoiding pregnancy. Is that what NFP is? Then, if so, NFP is "birth control for Catholics" without actually calling it birth control. The purpose, accordEither way it is avoiding pregnancy.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=863480

I have often thought that any large family in the novus ordo world would be due to a worldly, we're so in love with each other physically, that the couple can't keep their hands off each other as opposed to viewing the family in a Catholic manner where children are viewed as a gift from God and also with marriage as the means of supplying the world with Catholic souls to continue blessing Our Lord.

The OP in the thread attached already is aware of her cycles and is thinking of abstaining during the honeymoon. Are they already getting it on?

Did Pope Pius XII intend this when he gave the thumb's up to NFP?

I know Catholic Answers isn't exactly a place to understand Catholicism, but this is the fruits of Vatican II and also the fruits of NFP. CAF has it's fingers on the pulse of conciliarism in the U.S.

Matto · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2014, 03:29:25 PM »

Pope Pius XII said it was okay to use the rythm method with grave reason whatever that means. Most people who use NFP do not have a grave reason so when they use NFP they commit mortal sin. And then there are those who say that using NFP to avoid children is always a sin.

Nadir · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2014, 08:34:54 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Most people who use NFP do not have a grave reason so when they use NFP they commit mortal sin.

Quote

And then there are those who say that using NFP to avoid children is always a sin.

You are correct in the first quote. But in the second, "they" (whoever they are)have no right to contradict Pope Piu XII.

Quote

Pope Pius XII said it was okay to use the rythm method with grave reason whatever that means.

There are grave reasons to use NFP (I have seen some spelled out here on other threads) but they are rare.

Certainly not "Our main motivation for avoiding was we wanted a year of time to get adjusted to marital life and save money". If you're not ready to have children you are not ready for marriage.

Some of the posts on this thread on the CA forum make a mockery of Church teaching and of the sacrament of Marriage.

Tiffany · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2014, 09:03:31 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Pope Pius XII said it was okay to use the rythm method with grave reason whatever that means. Most people who use NFP do not have a grave reason so when they use NFP they commit mortal sin. And then there are those who say that using NFP to avoid children is always a sin.

I don't think it's a mortal sin.

Tiffany · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2014, 09:07:14 PM »

Randy Engel writes about how the planned parenthood newspeak is used.

Matto · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2014, 09:30:58 PM »

Quote from: Tiffany

I don't think it's a mortal sin.

I think it is. If masturbation is a mortal sin, then having sterile relations should also be a mortal sin for the same reasons. You could ask a traditional priest if you like.

Nadir · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2014, 12:09:48 AM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: Tiffany

I don't think it's a mortal sin.

I think it is. If masturbation is a mortal sin, then having sterile relations should also be a mortal sin for the same reasons. You could ask a traditional priest if you like.

I believe it is a mortal sin if it is used without grave reason, as Pope Pius XII has expressed it.

If it used "with grave reason" then it is not a sin at all.

bowler · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2014, 04:09:11 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: Matto
Quote from: Tiffany

I don't think it's a mortal sin.

I think it is. If masturbation is a mortal sin, then having sterile relations should also be a mortal sin for the same reasons. You could ask a traditional priest if you like.

I believe it is a mortal sin if it is used without grave reason, as Pope Pius XII has expressed it.

If it used "with grave reason" then it is not a sin at all.

Very sound reasoning Matto and Nadir.

Let me add that if there is truly a grave reason, like risk of death, why would the couple even think of engaging in the marital privilege? For that reason, I believe that in using NFP as you two interpret it (correctly so), the couple should consider that the 100% virtuous, sane, Godly way to "handle" NFP, is to totally abstain, to live a celibate marriage, and "in case of fire break glass" during a sterile period. In other words only use NFP in emergencies, not as a monthly life system.

Tiffany · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2014, 06:23:44 AM »

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: Matto
Quote from: Tiffany

I don't think it's a mortal sin.

I think it is. If masturbation is a mortal sin, then having sterile relations should also be a mortal sin for the same reasons. You could ask a traditional priest if you like.

I believe it is a mortal sin if it is used without grave reason, as Pope Pius XII has expressed it.

If it used "with grave reason" then it is not a sin at all.

Very sound reasoning Matto and Nadir.

Let me add that if there is truly a grave reason, like risk of death, why would the couple even think of engaging in the marital privilege? For that reason, I believe that in using NFP as you two interpret it (correctly so), the couple should consider that the 100% virtuous, sane, Godly way to "handle" NFP, is to totally abstain, to live a celibate marriage, and "in case of fire break glass" during a sterile period. In other words only use NFP in emergencies, not as a monthly life system.

Matto's reasoning is off. Self abuse is unnatural. Having normal relations with a spouse during a type when conception is not likely is not an unnatural act and it's not a mortal sin.

Bowler one of the many twisted things in NFP teaching is they have "rules" that get more conservative for more serious reasons but at the end they do say if it's that serious totally abstain.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2014, 04:40:18 PM »

Quote from: Tiffany

Matto's reasoning is off. Self abuse is unnatural. Having normal relations with a spouse during a type when conception is not likely is not an unnatural act and it's not a mortal sin.

As much as I don't always agree with the standard, "go ask a Traditional priest," answer, this time I must agree that such is the way to go. There's often at least some circuмstances involved in one's decision to use NFP which might mitigate the gravity of the sin.

But, I will say that according to Fr. Alphonsus (a Redemptorist who works with the SSPX doing parish missions), sins against the 6th and 9th commandments are mortal by their nature.

Matto · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2014, 05:13:16 PM »

Using NFP without grave reason is turning your wife into a whore.

Ambrose · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2014, 05:34:58 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Reading this thread from Catholic Answers and the posters are all speaking of avoiding pregnancy. Is that what NFP is? Then, if so, NFP is "birth control for Catholics" without actually calling it birth control. The purpose, accordEither way it is avoiding pregnancy.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=863480

I have often thought that any large family in the novus ordo world would be due to a worldly, we're so in love with each other physically, that the couple can't keep their hands off each other as opposed to viewing the family in a Catholic manner where children are viewed as a gift from God and also with marriage as the means of supplying the world with Catholic souls to continue blessing Our Lord.

The OP in the thread attached already is aware of her cycles and is thinking of abstaining during the honeymoon. Are they already getting it on?

Did Pope Pius XII intend this when he gave the thumb's up to NFP?

I know Catholic Answers isn't exactly a place to understand Catholicism, but this is the fruits of Vatican II and also the fruits of NFP. CAF has it's fingers on the pulse of conciliarism in the U.S.

Pope Pius XII never "gave the thumbs up" to NFP. He never taught this perverse practice.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2014, 07:09:54 PM »

Ambrose,

Can you link to the docuмent where Pius XII approved NFP?

Ursus · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2014, 08:47:08 PM »

Now don't grief me on this but feel free to comment.

The NO quietly taught NFP as a means to so called natural birth control. Now while this isn't likely official it isn't corrected in their practices.

I understood NFP to be allowed in grave situations meaning poverty that would crush your family, mental depression and other issues, illnesses and incapacitates. But consulting your priest prior to this practice is the way to go. Now if that is the basic meaning of grave situations would the priest outright suggest celibacy vs NFP?

Ambrose · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2014, 09:03:53 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Ambrose,

Can you link to the docuмent where Pius XII approved NFP?

That was my point, he did not teach it. There is no docuмent.