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Author Topic: Is Monogamy realistic?  (Read 1579 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Is Monogamy realistic?
« on: October 30, 2009, 09:26:10 AM »
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  • No, I'm not suggesting that monogamy isn't realistic  :wink:

    That's the title of a CNN article -- which tells us just how corrupt the modern world has become.

    We MUST stand COMPLETELY ALOOF from this modern-day Sodom if we are to save our souls and have a happy marriage and/or Catholic children.

    Don't dabble in keeping the world happy, just as you wouldn't dabble in the Occult.



    (CNN) -- If you were to judge the success rate of monogamy by the sex lives of public figures, perhaps couples should change their marriage vows to say, "Till a tempting new partner do us part."

    Talk-show host David Letterman recently joined former presidential candidate John Edwards, South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford and former New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer on a long list of politicians and entertainers (think Jude Law) who have admitted having sex outside their marriage or committed relationship.

    But do they just illustrate the realities of modern life?

    In the age of hookups, friends with benefits and online dating, and as human life expectancy grows, is it still reasonable to expect people to pair up and stay monogamous until death do them part?

    "It's realistic that some people can mate for life in the same sense that some people can play the Beethoven violin concerto or other people can ice-skate beautifully or learn a new language," said psychiatrist Judith Eve Lipton.

    Added evolutionary biologist David Barash, "It's within the realm of human potential, but it's not easy."

    Lipton and Barash, who have been married 32 years and are the co-authors of "Strange Bedfellows" and "The Myth of Monogamy," said serial monogamy may be more realistic -- a model in which people move from one committed long-term relationship to another and choose partners for different reasons at different stages of their life.

    Possibilities in polyamory?

    For some, even serial monogamy seems too restrictive.

    The 1970s introduced the concept of "open marriage" in which couples stayed married but were free to date other people.

    More recently, polyamory -- the practice of having romantic relationships with multiple people at the same time with the full knowledge and consent of all involved -- has been getting a lot of attention.

    "We found the expectation that one person should be our everything seemed unrealistic given our day and age. ... It's oddly pressuring to set up that scenario," said Mark, who lives in Springfield, Missouri, and is in a polyamorous relationship. (He asked that his last name not be used for privacy reasons.)

    Mark, 42, has been married for five years. He and his wife tried different things to spice up their marriage, including swinging, or having casual sex with other people, he said. But they found the experience unfulfilling and decided what they really wanted was to be able to fall in love with others while staying together.

    Mark dates another woman, and his wife, who declined to be interviewed for this article, is dating another man. The four of them frequently get together to have dinner or watch movies.

    "People describe polyamory as 'poly-agony' because of all the work you have to do to maintain things," Mark said. "It's just not normal to look over and see your wife with another man. I know a lot of people would have a real problem with that. I really don't."

    Americans are too surprised by infidelity when it happens. I think we go into marriage with perhaps unrealistically high expectations about human nature.
    --Pamela Druckerman, author

    The ultimate goal is for everyone in the group to live together, Mark said.

    "This isn't about having affairs, it's really about being able to be open and loving," he added.

    Researchers studying polyamory estimate there are more than half a million polyamorous families in the United States, according to Newsweek.

    People seeking shorter, more secretive dalliances now have more opportunities than ever online. One example: The Ashley Madison Agency, a dating Web site for married men and women, which claims 4.5 million members and greets visitors with the motto, "Life is short. Have an affair."

    No wonder many people believe monogamy is completely on its way out. French author Jacques Attali in recent years wrote, "Monogamy, which is really no more than a useful social convention, will not survive. It has rarely been honored in practice; soon, it will vanish even as an ideal."

    Cultural give and take

    That ideal may depend on where you live.

    A journalist who traveled the world to examine how adultery is viewed by different cultures said Americans have a harsher view of infidelity than people in practically any other country.

    "Americans are too surprised by infidelity when it happens. I think we go into marriage with perhaps unrealistically high expectations about human nature," said Pamela Druckerman, author of "Lust in Translation."

    The French, in contrast, are as hopeful about staying faithful as Americans when they get married, but if one of the spouses has an affair, they are able to accept it as something that can happen over the course of a long marriage, said Druckerman, an American who lives in Paris.

    When French President François Mitterrand died in 1996, for example, his longtime mistress and their daughter attended his funeral -- at his widow's invitation.

    "[Americans] think if an affair happens, it's the end of the story, the fairy tale has been completely shattered, the person isn't the person we thought they were. The knee-jerk reaction is you have to get a divorce," Druckerman said.

    "[In France,] there's less of a sense that the person who cheats is a terrible human being or that this is a marker of a person's whole character."

    In Russia, Druckerman found that infidelity is considered a pleasurable vice, like smoking cigarettes. In Finland, sex in general is viewed as a very positive experience, so when a person is presented with the possibility of a sɛҳuąƖ experience, it's in some ways socially sanctioned to pursue it, Druckerman said.

    Famous and powerful are different

    Experts on relationships and human sɛҳuąƖity said that while we may not be wired to stay faithful to one partner for a lifetime, we can make a conscious decision to do so -- a choice that still comes with powerful emotional, biological and economic benefits.

    And while the sɛҳuąƖ exploits of celebrities such as David Letterman can be shocking, it's important to remember that powerful or famous people can have more inclination, opportunity and resources to stray.

    "They are used to the adrenaline rush in terms of being out there in the limelight. ... I call them adrenaline junkies," said Terri Orbuch, a professor of sociology at Oakland University and author of the new book "5 Simple Steps to Take Your Marriage From Good to Great."

    "They need that passion and excitement in their relationships."

    That can make famous or powerful people more likely to look outside their marriage to continue the adrenaline rush, Orbuch said.

    Power, wealth and fame are also well-known aphrodisiacs that attract lots of potential new sɛҳuąƖ partners -- an issue with which typical couples may not have to grapple.

    Monogamy's payoffs

    Whatever the temptation, most people still prefer to be in a monogamous relationship, said Nadine Kaslow, a professor at Emory University School of Medicine who specializes in couples and families and who also is chief psychologist at Grady Health System in Atlanta, Georgia.

    "People feel safer and they feel more trusting. They feel like they can depend on their partner," Kaslow said. "I think that we can make choices in a different way than [other] mammals and think through the consequences of things."

    Those consequences can be huge, in many ways. Nature has provided powerful incentives to stay faithful that are still valid.

    "There are a lot of reasons why sɛҳuąƖ monogamy is in people's interests," Lipton said.

    "Because whether it's raising children or avoiding emotional chaos and drama, like what David Letterman is facing, or whether it's building an estate and avoiding conflict about estate planning, there are lots of reasons that two people who cooperate are better off than one person alone or one person who is a cheat."
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    Offline Matthew

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 09:27:36 AM »
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  • Polyamory goes COMPLETELY against human nature. How perverted could that Mark guy be, to not have a problem with seeing his wife with another man? He has to be lying or deluding himself.

    At best, he has completely perverted himself.

    Matthew
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    Offline Belloc

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 09:30:07 AM »
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  • Likely he wants more women, but get down to it, would not the same for his wife.......a problem me thinks with lust....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 09:33:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd
    Mark, 42, has been married for five years. He and his wife tried different things to spice up their marriage, including swinging, or having casual sex with other people, he said. But they found the experience unfulfilling and decided what they really wanted was to be able to fall in love with others while staying together./quote]

    Proves his marriage is based on the groin, not supernatural grace and covenant....what if said wife became invalid? is it ok to go off with others, than? just dump her?? Likely so for this feminized fellow.....

    casual sex? think disease, illigitimate children,etc....idiots like "Mark" helped spread VD this way.....not saying it is easy, but marriage should be heart, mind united and united to God....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Matthew

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 09:39:53 AM »
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  • These poor people are looking for happiness in the wrong place.

    It would be like a group of starving people digging through the garbage, looking for decaying scraps of food to eat, when there's an "all you can eat" restaurant on the same street giving away free food. The restaurant has a sign out front, but none of the starving people choose to "look into it" -- they just continue to dig through the slimy, decaying food in the dumpster.  They choose to fill their empty bellies with dirty, stale Cheetos (which aren't even nourishing when fresh!)

    Matthew
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    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 09:41:23 AM »
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  •   Once I read a book by a very famous mullah. It was called women's right in Islam. It attacked the christian monogamy, and stated that all men are polygamists by nature. At the end of the book, it said:

    Quote
     Now it is the time to consider the celibacy of Jesus and Yahya (St. John the Baptist), and how they could possibly avoid women. The celibacy of these two prophets shows the fact that they were born without their manhood.


     blasphemy upon blasphemy!

    Offline Belloc

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 09:41:50 AM »
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  • sad, but nothing new under the sun is it?

    These peopel think they are "progressive' and cutting edge, same ol same ol in reality.......
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    « Reply #7 on: October 30, 2009, 09:44:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd
    Polyamory goes COMPLETELY against human nature. How perverted could that Mark guy be, to not have a problem with seeing his wife with another man? He has to be lying or deluding himself.

    At best, he has completely perverted himself.

    Matthew


      Some people may say that since polygamy is seen among animals, then it must have some roots in animal part of our nature. blah blah blah


    Offline Matthew

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 09:44:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     Once I read a book by a very famous mullah. It was called women's right in Islam. It attacked the christian monogamy, and stated that all men are polygamists by nature. At the end of the book, it said:

    Quote
     Now it is the time to consider the celibacy of Jesus and Yahya (St. John the Baptist), and how they could possibly avoid women. The celibacy of these two prophets shows the fact that they were born without their manhood.


     blasphemy upon blasphemy!


    When people state garbage like this, it just shows their own depravity. It means they can't conceive of how a man could control his passions -- to the point that, if someone DOES control them, they could easier believe he is impotent, than believe he is simply virtuous.

    When virtue is SO far away from you, you begin to believe it doesn't exist.

    So the fact he believes celibacy is impossible shows how much of a slave HE is to lust.

    ...and many people nowadays think that celibacy is impossible.

    Matthew
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    Offline Belloc

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #9 on: October 30, 2009, 10:00:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     Once I read a book by a very famous mullah. It was called women's right in Islam. It attacked the christian monogamy, and stated that all men are polygamists by nature. At the end of the book, it said:

    Quote
     Now it is the time to consider the celibacy of Jesus and Yahya (St. John the Baptist), and how they could possibly avoid women. The celibacy of these two prophets shows the fact that they were born without their manhood.


     blasphemy upon blasphemy!


    have heard that too, but though we share some things with animals, we have immortal souls, they do not....and intellect of course....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 02:56:55 PM »
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  • What they are not saying is that they are also exploiting their children.

    They just don't brag about it because it's illegal.
     :barf:



    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #11 on: October 30, 2009, 03:04:37 PM »
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  • True, CPS would be on them quick..or if they were Trad Christians...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Caraffa

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    Is Monogamy realistic?
    « Reply #12 on: October 30, 2009, 11:17:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd
    When virtue is SO far away from you, you begin to believe it doesn't exist.

    So the fact he believes celibacy is impossible shows how much of a slave HE is to lust.


    He sounds like a certain German priest 492 years ago.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 11:37:52 PM »
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  • Exactly. History proves it again and again.

    Some things never change about human nature.

    Matthew
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    Offline Roman Catholic

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    « Reply #14 on: October 31, 2009, 10:29:40 AM »
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  • Yep human nature is fallen. And there is nothing new about depravity; it's acceptance and pervasiveness nowadays is a real cause for concern though.