Author Topic: Is it a Sin to love someone for their own sake? (Read 1121 times)

Maria-Bernada · « **on:** August 31, 2009, 09:41:06 PM »

We love God for His own sake.

We love others for the sake of God.

Is it a sin to love anyone (other than God) for their own sake? Is it a form of idolatry?

Maria-Bernada · « **Reply #1 on:** August 31, 2009, 09:54:40 PM »

I've seen it said that to love someone for their own sake is to love them for God's own sake.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2009, 11:15:45 PM »

I know a man who has had a long Catholic marriage that to the world looked pretty good, but he now says it was a mistake, because he loved his wife more than God. He also says he married the wrong woman, implying that it was lust.

Catholics should definitely SCOUR their consciences before choosing a mate, to see if there is any hint of lust buried underneath their surface piety. If you're going to be married you should marry someone for one reason only -- will that person make a good father / mother? The way I understand it, marriage is a vocation and parenthood is the goal of this vocation.

If you marry for attraction you can be assured that it will turn to repulsion later. You should marry someone who gives you feelings of peace and calm and friendship, as that never dies.

Be aware that your husband or wife can drop out of the Church and take you along as well, because at some point you might find yourself unable to live without your spouse, or your viewpoint may be changed by living with them for a long period of time.

I am a confirmed celibate as to me it is not worth risking my immortal soul for earthly companionship. In heaven we're not going to have carnal relations so I feel it's better to start getting ready for that now, and to get my mind completely off the pleasures of the Earth, even the lawful ones. However, this might be sour grapes, as I am far from a virgin and lived among the "fleshpots" of Los Angeles before conversion, making me feel unworthy of Catholic marriage.

I am a penitent and observer a la Mary Magdalene. But a white wedding between two virginal Catholics is quite a powerful and unusual sight these days. I think the wedded state is probably the most difficult vocation as well as the most unheralded; married couples do not get the respect of priests but at the same time they still have to temper their bodily urges and live up to harsh Catholic laws, while attending to the difficult task of raising children properly in a world gone mad. To me it's like having one foot in both worlds, heaven and earth, and the very notion of it slightly depresses me due to this clipping of ones' wings that it would seem to entail. But I admire those who can do it.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2009, 11:23:50 PM »

I never went to a brothel, I just said "fleshpots" because I had read that term about the early life of St. Augustine today and it struck me as amusing. It was probably embellished in his case as well -- from what I understand he had a nine-year live in mistress.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2009, 01:45:56 AM »

Quote from: Maria-Bernada

Is it a sin to love anyone (other than God) for their own sake? Is it a form of idolatry?

Yes. What is really going on, in most cases where such happens, is that we are, in the final analysis, loving them for our own sake. We just tell ourselves it is for the sake of the beloved, as it seems better, more noble, acceptable, etc.

IMO, we either love God unto the despising of ourselves, or we love ourselves unto the despising of God. All can be shown to be one or the other.

CM · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2009, 05:25:55 AM »

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2009, 05:33:00 AM »

All love is either rightly ordered or it is not. If it is rightly ordered, it will be directed toward the ONE end, even if it is not so in a perfect manner or directly so.

Here below, things tend to be all mixed together. Even when we are truly seeking God, for example, we are, until purified to a high degree, often ALSO seeking self. The gold, so to speak, is not purified in a moment, but through a lengthy process.

That said, if I worded my previous statement poorly, I beg your pardon (and that of God) and will be quite content if you can do better.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2009, 10:25:57 AM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Catholics should definitely SCOUR their consciences before choosing a mate, to see if there is any hint of lust buried underneath their surface piety.

Does natural attraction to one's potential spouse count as lust?

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n If you're going to be married you should marry someone for one reason only -- will that person make a good father / mother?

The secondary goal of marriage is to alleviate concupiscence. Hence you see many people married after child-bearing years. The natural end of marriage is procreation - that there are people with valid marriages who remain childless does not mean that procreation is not the end of marriage, just that the end can be frustrated, by age, or nature.

Quote

The way I understand it, marriage is a vocation and parenthood is the goal of this vocation.

If you marry for attraction you can be assured that it will turn to repulsion later. You should marry someone who gives you feelings of peace and calm and friendship, as that never dies.

I agree one must use discernment in judging one's motivations, but to ignore one's natural inclinations in making a choice is a mistake. If a man and woman are strongly attracted to each other then that can be a good reason for marriage, not a sufficient reason, but a very good reason, since the frustration and disappointment that would attend not marrying the person can easily be an occasion of sin.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2009, 10:26:51 AM »

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2009, 05:02:58 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Good catch.

It is a good quote, but are you sure he "caught" anything?

The condemnation speaks of love being completely one or the other. Of course this is not true; not in this vale of tears.

Look to eternity. All the loves of this life ARE, finally and irrevocably, resolved into one or the other.

I am NOT saying that what I said was absolutely correct, nor said in the best possible way. However, even those with no knowledge of revelation must, in loving another, desire what is good for the beloved.

The good is, naturally speaking, that which is part of, or leads to, a virtuous life. Such cannot even be correctly grasped without reference, however slight or indirect, to the Supreme Good, even known only by reason. If this is NOT the dominant motivation, then I believe it CAN BE argued that it is an inordinate love of self that is motivating things. In most concrete situations, however, I believe there is a mixture of motivations.

Why not post your own thoughts on this complex matter? I am certain I do not know all there is to know about so deep a matter, nor that I have expressed myself in the best way.

In the end, I think even the best of us love creatures in a rather less-than-perfectly-purified way. That is what this crucible we call life is all about - learning and being purified as we travel toward our true home. Godspeed.