Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?  (Read 1239 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cryptinox

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1149
  • Reputation: +248/-91
  • Gender: Male
Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
« on: April 22, 2021, 10:22:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have been avoiding it however some may argue that it is fine cause you aren't making the person work.


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6215/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #1 on: April 23, 2021, 12:12:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • We are commanded to keep Holy the Lord's Day.  If it can wait til Monday, then wait.  If it's something important, then bid.  If it's something super quick, then bid.  
    .
    If it takes a lot of time on a Sunday, but it's important, then do it once, but only once.  Next time, plan ahead.  
    .
    The point is, Sundays are for God.  They are not for work, tasks, small jobs, normal stuff.  Sundays should be DIFFERENT from every other day (more God/religion focused).  Every now and then, an exception comes up where "normal things have to be done" on a Sunday, but you should plan and work to make exceptions very rare.  This shows respect for God and His day.


    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3849/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #2 on: April 23, 2021, 10:59:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is a sin to buy or sell on Sunday, not just to work, unless it is something necessary. I believe necessary is taken leniently and not strictly. So it would be okay to eat at a restaurant after Church if you are hungry because you have to eat, even if technically you could have brought a bag lunch to Church that day. But if it is not necessary it could be a sin. I remember reading in a sermon of the Cure of Ars that if it is a small purchase it is venial, but if it is a large purchase, like a horse or in these days a car, it would be mortal. Something related I had wondered. I don't shop online on Sundays, but I wondered about having packages I ordered delivered on Sunday. Sometimes I will order something and it will be delivered on Sunday and that would be making people work which is wrong. But you have no choice when you order something online. Usually they don't deliver on Sundays though.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31182
    • Reputation: +27095/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #3 on: April 23, 2021, 01:44:13 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't know.

    You could click-click order a car on Sunday -- would that really damn you to hell for all Eternity -- such an action is incompatible with Charity/the Love of God/Sanctifying Grace?

    I would question if that is even a venial sin.

    Remember, the Orthodox Jєωs were commanded not to even light a fire on the Sabbath. But today, they foolishly extend that to one's OVEN starting a fire. So there's a special "Sabbath Mode" where the oven is kept on, so you can adjust the temp up/down during the Sabbath, but you didn't "start a fire". Pharisaical, I know.

    Is swiping and tapping on your phone really a sin? You can swipe and tap countless other things which aren't a sin.

    I just think online commerce is SO easy, and doesn't require YOU or OTHERS to do any work, so it has nothing to do with "shopping" or "making others work" on Sunday. The only thing it has in common -- money is deducted from your funds, and you become set to acquire some merchandise in the near future. Seems pretty fundamental, I know -- but acquiring merchandise isn't a sin -- you can give or be gifted things on Sunday, right?  And if you can't reduce your bank balance on Sunday, then you can't donate money to the collection at Church.

    From the time I decide I need something, it takes about 5 minutes to browse the options, pick one that isn't too cheap but not too expensive, has 4-5 star reviews, and click-click order it. 5 minutes is not going to put a dent in my day or take away time or attention from things spiritual.

    The important question is, WHY is shopping traditionally excluded from lawful actions on Sunday? The time it takes up, the ongoing distraction from spiritual matters and attention we ought to give God at least once a week, and the fact that it causes others to put in hours at work, and possibly miss Mass and certainly stay too busy to attend to their own souls and spiritual matters.

    But "one-click ordering" does none of these things. So then?

    The problem is, online ordering didn't exist before Vatican II. So we Trads are left to our own devices, basically applying principles of moral theology to new situations. We are "on our own", like the Jєωs in Judges 17:6: "In those days there was no king in Israel, but every one did that which seemed right to himself."

    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31182
    • Reputation: +27095/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #4 on: April 23, 2021, 02:06:31 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • P.S. I hate to be a jerk, but what about Alexa automatic ordering? Aren't there systems that detect when something is low, and automatically place an order with Amazon to refill it? And what about Subscribe-and-Save, where Amazon automatically places an order for set products every month or two. Wouldn't that be yet another step removed from the classic "shopping on Sunday"?

    And a bunch of order fulfillment is done by robots, and in big cities is even delivered by drone (or will be).

    And to really mix things up, what about the fundamental changes to the business world from 1950 - 2021? Only a fool would say things are basically the same. Who is under any delusion that their shopping habits are going to change a global corporation's mind about what days they should be open? Wal-mart, Target, etc. Small and family-owned businesses dominated in the 1950's. You could influence individual human beings. Corporations operate on a hive mind, motivated only by profit. And the population is different as well. We are much more pagan and post-Christian than the world was in 1950. So even the situation of shopping in a brick-and-mortar store has fundamentally changed since the last pre-Vatican II books were written in the 1950's.

    So let's discuss.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Yeti

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 3475
    • Reputation: +2005/-447
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #5 on: April 23, 2021, 02:29:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • No, it's not. It's only public commerce such as buying something in a store on Sunday that's forbidden. Buying something online is simply a communication to another computer to send you something. It would be like a hundred years ago if you wanted to order something from the Sears Catalog and put an envelope with a check and an order form into a mailbox on Sunday. That would not be a sin either.

    Offline Emile

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 2166
    • Reputation: +1511/-85
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #6 on: April 23, 2021, 02:39:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think that you make some valid points Matthew. In the modern situation I don't know where exactly the line of sin would be crossed either.

    What I have found useful to help keep the Lord's Day is to set rules:
    I do my best to not make any purchases on Sunday's. For example I make sure that I fill up on gas Saturday if I'm going to Mass on Sunday (I can make the round trip on one tank). But when we need to stop at a gas station to use the restroom, I will buy something, because they need to take in money to pay their bills.
    If there is something that I remember that I need, I write it down, and make the purchase on Monday. If I win an e-bay auction that ends on Sunday I pay for it on Monday.

    To answer the OP: I doubt placing a bid would be sinful but I myself do not. I make an act of trust in Divine Providence. If God wants me to have it, it will still be available on Monday. I've practiced this for years and have not lacked for anything necessary.
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3849/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #7 on: April 23, 2021, 02:44:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I believe it was Saint Bernadette who told one of her family members to stop selling religious goods to pilgrims to Lourdes on Sundays and Holy Days because it displeased the Lord and Our Lady. Makes me wonder about book stores in Churches.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6215/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #8 on: April 23, 2021, 03:20:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    Makes me wonder about book stores in Churches.

    :laugh1:  I've never seen anyone work hard in a church bookstore.

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3849/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #9 on: April 23, 2021, 03:29:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • :laugh1:  I've never seen anyone work hard in a church bookstore.
    Did you even read what I said before laughing? St. Bernadette's relative was not working hard selling medals and prayer cards to the Lourdes pilgrims either. The act of selling itself was the sin, not the working.

    And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the chairs of them that sold doves
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6215/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #10 on: April 23, 2021, 03:36:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    Did you even read what I said before laughing? St. Bernadette's relative was not working hard selling medals and prayer cards to the Lourdes pilgrims either. The act of selling itself was the sin, not the working.

    Calm down.  I was making a joke about church bookstores largely being run by nice, coffee-drinking, socializing, women.
    .

    Quote
    stop selling religious goods to pilgrims to Lourdes on Sundays and Holy Days because it displeased the Lord and Our Lady.

    You must distinguish.  There is a HUGE difference between a church bookstore being open for a few hours (usually only on sundays) to sell SPIRITUAL books and the selling of religious goods in Lourdes.  1) Typically, the stores which sell to pilgrims are open ALL DAY, 7 days a week.  It's a business.  2) The stores' purpose is both for profit and for religious purposes.
    .
    Church bookstores don't pose a "servile work" problem because they aren't for profit and don't require lots of work.


    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4382
    • Reputation: +1628/-194
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #11 on: April 23, 2021, 06:48:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Just to look at it from a slightly different angle, online commerce could actually be a tool to enable us to avoid servile work, and to avoid physical commerce (going into stores that have to have people hired to staff them, stock the shelves, clean up, and so on).  Seen that way, it could allow us to stay at home, stay with our families, not have to be out in the world of work, and so on.

    Seen that way, the only problem I can see --- and it is a considerable problem --- is that once you click and place the order, that sets into motion a chain of events which requires people to work immediately --- the Amazon warehouses are a case in point.  Just because we can't see the person who is working, doesn't mean that they're not being forced to disregard the Lord's Day by putting in their own servile labor.  (But a lot of people work at those warehouses out of necessity, the pay is fairly decent, and there may be few if any other jobs in that community that are as easily accessible.  Frequently, in the world or work, you do what you have to, not what you'd prefer to.)

    As a rule --- and I shall not dogmatize on this --- I do not engage in any online commerce from Saturday evening to Monday morning, unless it is something that has to be ordered and set into motion, to arrive as quickly as possible, such as necessary things for our home where I am caring for disabled parents, including a father who is gravely ill.  It is the same as if he needed dietary supplements from Walmart on a Sunday.  I do try to plan so as to avoid such shopping, but in circuмstances such as this, that's not always possible.  Things come up.  But if it's some widget that I don't have to have in a short time frame, then I hold off until Monday morning.  That's the best way I know to deal with the conundrum of "is online commerce something that is forbidden on Sundays?".

    Offline Alan

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 227
    • Reputation: +74/-28
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #12 on: April 24, 2021, 12:40:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is a sin to buy or sell on Sunday, not just to work, unless it is something necessary. I believe necessary is taken leniently and not strictly. So it would be okay to eat at a restaurant after Church if you are hungry because you have to eat, even if technically you could have brought a bag lunch to Church that day. But if it is not necessary it could be a sin. I remember reading in a sermon of the Cure of Ars that if it is a small purchase it is venial, but if it is a large purchase, like a horse or in these days a car, it would be mortal. Something related I had wondered. I don't shop online on Sundays, but I wondered about having packages I ordered delivered on Sunday. Sometimes I will order something and it will be delivered on Sunday and that would be making people work which is wrong. But you have no choice when you order something online. Usually they don't deliver on Sundays though.
    Matto, how about buying meals on Sundays so that my wife doesn't have to cook?

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3849/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #13 on: April 24, 2021, 11:00:55 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Matto, how about buying meals on Sundays so that my wife doesn't have to cook?
    I would say that is probably fine, or at worst venial. I don't know all the details as I was never properly taught. All I am going by is a few quotes from Saints saying it is a sin to buy and sell on Holy Days unless necessary, the Cure of Ars and St. Bernadette, with no explanation, and I just looked at the Catechism of Trent that says you should not conduct "Business" on such days without a full explanation. What I do on holy days is not buy and sell, except for food and drink. So I think going to the restaurant so your wife doesn't have to cook is fine, and I live as if it were fine, but I don't know all the details. And about the Church bookstore, I hope it is okay as the priests should know better than me, but I sometimes think about St. Bernadette.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16439
    • Reputation: +4863/-1803
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Is it a sin to bid on an item online on a Sunday?
    « Reply #14 on: April 24, 2021, 11:03:55 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I say there are 6 other days of the week.  Do shopping and online ordering on those days instead of Sunday.  No to Sunday football and kiddie sports too.  Let’s take back Sunday for God.

    After reading how they mess with food, I’m grossed out.  (After working in restaurants and waitressing, I should know better).  

    https://www.menshealth.com/trending-news/a19547701/how-restaurant-servers-mess-with-your-food/.

    (Date night with wife on Saturdays or during week.)

    May God bless you and keep you