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Offline MrYeZe

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Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
« on: August 15, 2015, 11:15:17 PM »
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  • Because, honestly, while there are some metal bands with unquestionably Satanic/anti-Christian imagery and such, I honestly don't think the rest of it is.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

       -Thomas Aquinas

    "Even if my own father were a heretic, I would gather the wood to burn him"

    -Pope Paul IV

    Offline BTNYC

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #1 on: August 16, 2015, 12:40:31 AM »
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  • It's not a question of "inherent sinfulness" of particular musical genres.

    And a thing need not be inherently sinful to be unpraiseworthy, imprudent, or unfit for Catholic consumption.

    Look at the thing in and of itself. Is it orderly, or disordered? It it objectively beautiful and harmonious,or objectively ugly, distorted and discordant (appealing only to badly-formed modern aesthetics)? Is the focus on melody and harmony that lifts the intellect and edifies the soul, or is the focus on the tribal rhythms, exciting little else than the lower passions? Did the genre form in a Catholic culture, or in a fallen, disordered, post-Christian modern secular culture? Are those who push and promote and profit from it friends of the Church for the most part, or from among her enemies?

    Finally a bit of good old Catholic folk wisdom applies: If the Blessed Mother appeared in your home, would you feel comfortable playing it for her?

    Ask yourself those questions and address them honestly and prayerfully, putting aside any objections that are obviously irrational and rooted in worldly attachments, and the answers you seek will come to you.


    Offline PG

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #2 on: August 16, 2015, 01:12:26 AM »
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  • If you have not watched this, you should.  It is an sspv "what catholics believe" television episode.  It is 30 minutes long.  At minute 7:30 they get into answering your question.  But, again, the whole program is good.

    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline BTNYC

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #3 on: August 16, 2015, 01:16:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: + PG +
    If you have not watched this, you should.  It is an sspv "what catholics believe" television episode.  It is 30 minutes long.  At minute 7:30 they get into answering your question.  But, again, the whole program is good.



    Excellent video. Thanks for posting the link.

    Offline MrYeZe

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #4 on: August 16, 2015, 01:27:21 AM »
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  • Quote
    Finally a bit of good old Catholic folk wisdom applies: If the Blessed Mother appeared in your home, would you feel comfortable playing it for her?


    Honestly, I'm not sure if that standard is absolute. I doubt a Crusader knight would be comfortable hacking off the head of a Muslim Jihadist in the presence of the Blessed Mother, yet no one on this forum would argue that the Crusades were evil.

    Quote
    Are those who push and promote and profit from it friends of the Church for the most part, or from among her enemies?


    Actually, you'd be surprised. While most of the artists aren't Catholic, a lot of them are pretty much just indifferent to the Church, well, the successful ones at least, probably due to the fact that edgy anti-Christian rock and metal is terrible, and no one listens to it.

    Quote
    Is the focus on melody and harmony that lifts the intellect and edifies the soul, or is the focus on the tribal rhythms, exciting little else than the lower passions?


    I'm actually not that sure how to exactly tell which would be which.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

       -Thomas Aquinas

    "Even if my own father were a heretic, I would gather the wood to burn him"

    -Pope Paul IV


    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #5 on: August 16, 2015, 01:48:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: MrYeZe


    I'm actually not that sure how to exactly tell which would be which.

    Sensus Catholicus: The sense of the Catholic faith is the patrimony
    of all the faithful, even the simplest (in which it is often stronger), by
    believing what has always been believed and taught by the Church and by
    adhering with whole soul to the Faith of the Church. Thereby the Catholic is
    assisted in distinguishing what is conformed to the Faith or, on the
    contrary, what afflicts and corrupts it.
    (Rev. Canon Rene Berthod)

    Offline MrYeZe

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #6 on: August 16, 2015, 01:58:47 AM »
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  • Well, in that case, I really don't see songs from bands like Saxon or Manowar to be all that morally corrupting. Some other artists though....yeah, I can kind of see that.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

       -Thomas Aquinas

    "Even if my own father were a heretic, I would gather the wood to burn him"

    -Pope Paul IV

    Offline Nadir

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #7 on: August 16, 2015, 02:38:18 AM »
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  • I just had a twinge of deja vu. I'm sure this has all been explained before. Does anyone else remember?

    You have not yet been confirmed, MrYeZe. Ans so you are at a definite disadvantage here in understanding what these wise men are relaying. Are you saying that Novena to the Holy Ghost and have you spoken to the priest yet?


    Offline MrYeZe

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #8 on: August 16, 2015, 02:41:45 AM »
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  • Quote
    You have not yet been confirmed, MrYeZe. Ans so you are at a definite disadvantage here in understanding what these wise men are relaying.


    Yeah, I guess I am.

    Quote
    Are you saying that Novena to the Holy Ghost and have you spoken to the priest yet?


    Not yet, but I'm about to contact him.  I'm seeing if I can get a confirmation either this Easter or the next.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

       -Thomas Aquinas

    "Even if my own father were a heretic, I would gather the wood to burn him"

    -Pope Paul IV

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #9 on: August 16, 2015, 02:58:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: MrYeZe
    Well, in that case, I really don't see songs from bands like Saxon or Manowar to be all that morally corrupting. Some other artists though....yeah, I can kind of see that.

    http://www.christorchaos.com/NoSensusCatholicusNoCommonSense.htm

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #10 on: August 16, 2015, 04:44:22 AM »
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  • In the past, I loved collecting vynl records.  Most of my collection was classical music.
    Growing up I was made fun of because I listened to classical music. Of course I loved singing church music.  I was singing in the church choir since I was 8 years old.   I enjoyed listening to pop music too like Chicago , hall and Oates, Pat benatar and even country, Irish music etc then something  tragic happened in my life. In my 20's I was hanging out with friends which wasn't often because I worked or I was at Church.  then I started listening to AC/dC , 80's music. even though I was  still going to Mass every Sunday and singing in the choir.  After I was married, I wasn't listening to the rock music as much but the vynl and CDs  were in my house.  Most packed away until I went on St Ignatious retreat. Before that I was starting to donate old records.  After I went on a  St Ignatious retreat and learned about the evils of tv and music. We learned that even young seminarians struggled with temptations of listening to rock music.  After the retreat I trashed certain records.  








    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Arvinger

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #11 on: August 16, 2015, 06:40:32 AM »
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  • I don't think any genre of music is inherently sinful, it all depends on the message and lyrics. Also, "metal music" is very broad and inaccurate term, under this umbrella there is a very wide variety variety of music, which most of the people don't realize.

    There are definitely sub-genres of metal which should be totally avoided (mainly black metal) due to prevalent anti-Christian lyrics. Personally I like some melodic types of metal like power metal, folk metal and symphonic metal, many of the bands have good lyrics about history and medieval themes. There are also some Christian metal bands (unfortunately, many of them consist of Protestants, but the lyrics about the love of God, need for repentance and Biblical themes hardly touch upon their doctrinal errors, there is also a very good Ukrainian band Holy Blood which plays Christian music, but I'm not sure whether they are Eastern Orthodox or Eastern Catholic).

    Interestingly, in my home country (Poland) among the prominent Traditional Catholic laity there are great fans of metal.

    Nevertheless, if you are looking for edifying music outside of religious music, I'd primarily recommend opera, especially of Italian composers - Verdi, Puccini, Mascagni, Bellini and others composed some of the most beautiful music in world history. And Wagner of course.

    Offline BTNYC

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #12 on: August 16, 2015, 08:39:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: MrYeZe


    Honestly, I'm not sure if that standard is absolute. I doubt a Crusader knight would be comfortable hacking off the head of a Muslim Jihadist in the presence of the Blessed Mother, yet no one on this forum would argue that the Crusades were evil.


    You're misapplying the folk wisdom. These are two entirely different things. A soldier killing an enemy; or an executioner killing a heretic or a criminal, are examples of ugly, but necessary, duties. We do ugly but necessary things all the time that we wouldn't want to do in front of the Blessed Mother (certain bodily functions come to mind). Listening to music (or watching movies, or TV shows, or reading books) are things we do for recreation; for pleasure (pretty much the opposite of necessity). Therefore, the axiom is applicable to these kinds of things: Would you be comfortable watching / listening / reading it to the Blessed Virgin?


    Quote from: MrYeZe


    Actually, you'd be surprised. While most of the artists aren't Catholic, a lot of them are pretty much just indifferent to the Church, well, the successful ones at least, probably due to the fact that edgy anti-Christian rock and metal is terrible, and no one listens to it.



    Firstly, one who is indifferent to the Church certainly cannot be considered a "friend" of the Church. Those who remain intransigently indifferent can, I think, certainly be counted among Her enemies.

    Anti-Christian music in general - regardless of genre - is anything but unpopular. Some of the biggest and most "pioneering" artists of the rock genre (and its various sub-genres) have been fairly openly anti-Christian: The Beatles (despite what Roscoe would have you believe); The Rolling Stones; Pink Floyd; Led Zeppelin; Black Sabbath; Frank Zappa; Ministry; Metallica; Nine Inch Nails; Pantera; and Tool all spring immediately to mind.

    Finally, what I was referring to in my original post was not so much the artists as those who push the genre - the agents, the record companies; the music media, etc. Those people are the primary engines behind the spread of the genre. Are they mostly from among the Church's friends or enemies? (Hint: Oy vey.)

    Quote from: MrYeZe


    Quote
    Is the focus on melody and harmony that lifts the intellect and edifies the soul, or is the focus on the tribal rhythms, exciting little else than the lower passions?


    I'm actually not that sure how to exactly tell which would be which.


    That brings me back to a point made in my initial post:

    Quote from: BTNYC

    It it objectively beautiful and harmonious,or objectively ugly, distorted and discordant (appealing only to badly-formed modern aesthetics)?


    I know my aesthetics were badly formed by modern musical and artistic sensibilities. You quite a bit younger than me so it's apparent yours were too. Listen to more Sacral Music; chants, and polyphony. Listen to older, traditional music genres that formed in Catholic Cultures and you'll begin to discern the difference.

    I was heavily into electronic music when I was young. By the time I was your age, I'd spent an inordinate amount of money on musical equipment and had begun a ten-year long period of making electronic music. The more I studied music - particularly older Western forms of music (which is to say, Catholic) - the more drawn to melody and harmony, and the less to brutal, primitive rhythm I became. Finally, this coincided with my re-conversion to the Faith, and my understanding of why modern rhythm-driven music was lower and less worthy than the music of the Traditional Catholic eras became more or less complete. That being said, my aesthetics were still badly formed, and so the music I used to listen to still appeals to that part of me - thankfully my better judgment prevails against that part.

    Watch the video that + PG + linked to. It's excellent. Continue to immerse yourself in Traditional and Sacral music. Pray and Sacrifice. After that, Grace and Conscience will do their work.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #13 on: August 16, 2015, 10:58:42 AM »
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  • To put it simple as possible, music that has any beat to it at all was invented to   kill your Interior Life. Stay away from it. It is addicting and by listening to it, by design your Interior Life will become non-existent and you get more and more addicted the more you listen to it.

    Unlike any other past time, for years and years you can listen to the exact same song 1000s of times, then 10000 x 100000s of times for years and years you hear it over and over as you hum it or sing it or in some way remember it.  

    Then multiply this fact times the number of different songs you listen to and it is easy to see why it kills your Interior Life. . . . . note that we are not even talking about the influences the songs' beat, words, and tunes have on you after a life time of listening to them over and over again.

    Again, it is addicting. Feel free to prove me wrong though.    



     
    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline MrYeZe

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    Is Heavy Metal Inherently Sinful
    « Reply #14 on: August 16, 2015, 11:58:48 AM »
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  • Quote
    It it objectively beautiful and harmonious,or objectively ugly, distorted and discordant (appealing only to badly-formed modern aesthetics)?


    Well.....some of it is, such as songs like this:  A lot of it isn't though, no. I guess I see your point.  Pretty much the entire genre of thrash/death metal fits under the latter categorization.

    Eh, that's not a problem. Pretty much the only death metal band I actually liked was one that was literally supposed to be a parody of death metal bands, all the rest just sounded like crap that I could barely understand the lyrics to.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

       -Thomas Aquinas

    "Even if my own father were a heretic, I would gather the wood to burn him"

    -Pope Paul IV

     

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