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Author Topic: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?  (Read 3066 times)

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Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2021, 07:07:33 AM »
 
Another consideration is relevancy.  Does it matter one way or another the way space works or the distant past of the earth?  In my opinion pretty much no, anything that is not working towards the salvation of souls is ancillary at best and totally irrelevant at another end of the spectrum.

Let me put it to you Durango another way: Does it matter what way God created the universe?
Does it matter what God revealed about His universe in the Bible?

Does it matter what Cardinal Bellarmine said in his 1615 Letter to Foscarini?

Second. I say that, as you know, the Council of Trent prohibits expounding the Scriptures contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. And if Your Reverence would read not only the Fathers but also the commentaries of modern writers on Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Josue, you would find that all agree in explaining literally (ad litteram) that the sun is in the heavens and moves swiftly around the Earth, and that the Earth is far from the heavens and stands immobile in the centre of the universe. Now consider whether in all prudence the Church could encourage giving to Scripture a sense contrary to the holy Fathers and all the Latin and Greek commentators. Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter (ex parte objecti), it is a matter of faith on the part of the ones who have spoken (ex parte dicentis). It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the prophets and apostles.’

Does it matter that a geocentric creation cannot be made evolve naturally whereas the heliocentric one can and became the first evolution theory that eventually led to millions losing faith in a divine Creator?

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2021, 07:44:52 AM »
.
Oh no.  Not GEOCENTRISM again and the "INFALLIBLE" decree of Pius V.
Haven't we had enough of this ?

No, but I think we've heard enough from you on this subject.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2021, 07:53:46 AM »
Let me put it to you Durango another way: Does it matter what way God created the universe?
Does it matter what God revealed about His universe in the Bible?

Does it matter what Cardinal Bellarmine said in his 1615 Letter to Foscarini?

Second. I say that, as you know, the Council of Trent prohibits expounding the Scriptures contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. And if Your Reverence would read not only the Fathers but also the commentaries of modern writers on Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Josue, you would find that all agree in explaining literally (ad litteram) that the sun is in the heavens and moves swiftly around the Earth, and that the Earth is far from the heavens and stands immobile in the centre of the universe. Now consider whether in all prudence the Church could encourage giving to Scripture a sense contrary to the holy Fathers and all the Latin and Greek commentators. Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter (ex parte objecti), it is a matter of faith on the part of the ones who have spoken (ex parte dicentis). It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the prophets and apostles.’

Does it matter that a geocentric creation cannot be made evolve naturally whereas the heliocentric one can and became the first evolution theory that eventually led to millions losing faith in a divine Creator?

I'll have to ponder your statement that a geocentric creation cannot be made to evolve naturally.  Of course, God can do whatever He wants, but I guess from the perspective of the naturalist/rationalist scientists, they would certainly be at a loss to explain how a geocentric reality could have evolved by chance.  Of course, they haven't really explained how the complexity of life could have evolved by chance either, but that doesn't stop them from asserting it anyway.

More important than the question itself (ex parte objecti) of whether the earth moves are the principles behind Scriptural interpretation.  If the unanimous interpretations of the Fathers could be wrong on this point, then they could be wrong on other points.  If certain things are just story or allegory vs. literal historical accounts, then anything could be read that way.  Next step is that the entire Genesis account is just non-scientific, non-historical ... just a story made up to illustrate some unknown theological point.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2021, 07:58:29 AM »
I can see the argument that expressions like the "rising" and "setting" of the sun are simply descriptions based on perspective from earth.  Even heliocentrists today still use those terms.

But the key to geocentrism lies in the fact that Genesis clearly explains that God created the earth BEFORE He created the stars.  There's simply no talking around that.  Either that is true, or the entire Genesis account is just a "nice story".

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2021, 09:12:25 AM »
I've been wanting to add one comment to this thread since I first saw it:

What does it MATTER what position a single, private, lay CathInfo member holds on a given topic?

I really don't like threads which call out members by name. And I'll explain why:

Can't we discuss ideas, and not worry so much about individuals and personalities? Isn't focusing on this or that individual -- especially non-clerics, who really don't have much influence and don't matter in the scheme of things -- the exact opposite of what we should be doing ideally?

I'm the owner and sole moderator of this forum -- there might be a couple other forums "about as popular/large" in the English speaking world but there are none larger. Nevertheless, I'd be the first to say that my opinion doesn't mean jack squat. As a lay nobody, I restrict myself to regurgitating CATHOLIC DOCTRINE and when I occasionally spout my opinion, I make it clear that it's my opinion and that everyone is free to agree or disagree.