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Author Topic: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?  (Read 1852 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
« on: April 19, 2021, 07:02:57 PM »
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    • Just asking, because I know he considers the encyclical Providentissimus Deus to be a “post-Galileo U-turn” which taught error to the universal Church.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #1 on: April 19, 2021, 07:49:18 PM »
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    • Sean, this thread may help answer your objection to the Galileo question:

    http://strobertbellarmine.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1683&p=17125&hilit=Galileo#p17125
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    Offline Matto

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #2 on: April 19, 2021, 07:51:18 PM »
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    • I remember him not being a sedevacantist. He would argue with them and say that according to their principles they would have to reject all the popes since 1820 instead of 1958, so they are inconsistent.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #3 on: April 19, 2021, 07:57:40 PM »
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    • I'm hoping he will address my question.  I don't want to argue with him.  I find him an interesting character, to be honest.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #4 on: April 19, 2021, 08:00:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on April 19, 2021, 07:49:18 PM
    Sean, this thread may help answer your objection to the Galileo question:

    http://strobertbellarmine.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1683&p=17125&hilit=Galileo#p17125
    Thanks QVD.  I look forward to reading this thread after the kiddies get to bed.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #5 on: April 19, 2021, 08:13:10 PM »
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    • Just took a quick peek at the thread referred to by QVD, and John Lane's initial response contains this nugget, which, at first glance, seems reasonable to me:

    "One can see, in the light of these observations, the great disservice to truth and to the credibility of the Church which is done by those who go to extremes in their comments and interpretations of this matter. Those who insist that the Church defined the matter when she condemned Galileo create an impossible conundrum, and likewise those who blithely accept that the common interpretation of the Fathers can be tossed aside create a crisis of confidence in the Church and in the truth of Holy Writ. And I think equally problematical are the extreme commentaries which find at the bottom of all modern ills the Heliocentric theory. These commentaries essentially argue that the faith has been destroyed by a theory about which the Church remains silent. That notion is inadmissible, obviously."
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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #6 on: April 19, 2021, 08:15:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 19, 2021, 07:02:57 PM
    Just asking, because I know he considers the encyclical Providentissimus Deus to be a “post-Galileo U-turn” which taught error to the universal Church.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Cassini is Sungenis-- both are Dogmatic Geo-centrist... :popcorn:
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #7 on: April 19, 2021, 08:23:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: roscoe on April 19, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
    I wouldn't be surprised if Cassini is Sungenis-- both are Dogmatic Geo-centrist... :popcorn:

    I'm a geocentrist, and I agree with Sungenis about ALMOST everything.  

    But Cassini's notion that PD taught error to the universal Church brings sedevacantism back to the 1800's.  

    We just need a couple more Cassini's to get back to Ibranyi (no pope since 1000).  

    And of course, there can never be another pope again, since the whole church has defected (lest there be a lone bishop in the woods).

    All that said, John Lane's previously quoted comment seems to be the most reasonable.  

    Strange that he does not apply it to sedevacantism itself.

    But let's keep the conversation on Cassini's theory.
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    Offline PAT317

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #8 on: April 19, 2021, 10:01:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 19, 2021, 07:57:40 PM
     I don't want to argue with him.  I find him an interesting character, to be honest.
    I also find him interesting.  I value his posts. 
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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #9 on: April 19, 2021, 10:36:51 PM »
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    • I would also be very surprised if 'Cassini" did not recognise the anti-pope Frank... :jester:
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 10:37:21 PM »
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    • edit
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #11 on: April 20, 2021, 12:30:39 AM »
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    • The talk about geocentrism brought to mind a catechism class that I downloaded from SSPX Asia at least 10-12 years ago (relevant clip attached below). Fr. Scott gets upset that anyone would consider geocentrism true.

    I think it is an example of why we need to examine the beliefs that we have picked up from the world, especially "proven science".
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #12 on: April 20, 2021, 05:20:42 AM »
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    • I don’t believe Cassini holds that the Church actively taught error, just that it tolerated it.  Those are two different things.  I disagree with Lane’s contention that the toleration of error is not possible.

    I believe that the toleration of Molinism was also a mistake, and so were some of the things tolerated by Pius XII.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #13 on: April 20, 2021, 05:39:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 19, 2021, 07:02:57 PM
    Just asking, because I know he considers the encyclical Providentissimus Deus to be a “post-Galileo U-turn” which taught error to the universal Church.
    Why don’t / didn’t you message Cassini discretely?
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Is Cassini a Sedevacantist?
    « Reply #14 on: April 20, 2021, 06:04:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 20, 2021, 05:20:42 AM
    I don’t believe Cassini holds that the Church actively taught error, just that it tolerated it.  Those are two different things.  I disagree with Lane’s contention that the toleration of error is not possible.

    I believe that the toleration of Molinism was also a mistake, and so were some of the things tolerated by Pius XII.
    It seems that others in the Canonization thread are saying that the Church actively taught error with respect to Geocentrism (ie. actively taught error before Vatican II).  

    Knowing the Catholic Church can not universally teach error in faith and morals, can you speak more to this "toleration" here or there?
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