Author Topic: Investing for retirement while avoiding usury? (Read 2552 times)

FeeneyFan · « **on:** June 04, 2019, 09:59:44 PM »

I have a 401k that I had from an old job before I converted. I want to rollover this money into investments that would align with the traditional Catholic faith. Unfortunately the “Catholic” mutual funds like Ave Maria Mutual Funds have investments in bank stocks and/or bonds.

I have found a few Moslem firms that offer “Shariah compliant funds” which avoid bank stocks and bonds. However when reviewing the income statement of the companies they invest in they all have interest income listed albeit this is normally not an extremely significant amount.

I really don’t want to have to take the penalty for withdrawing early I would prefer to be able to find an investment that is pleasing to God and not tainted with usurious income but this is proving extremely hard. I have spent much time trying to figure out what to do and it bothers me very much. If anyone could offer some advice it would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Incredulous · « **Reply #1 on:** June 05, 2019, 12:05:50 AM »

       Advice?


         The Jєωs will steal our investments anyway, so focus about your Heavenly bank account.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #2 on:** June 05, 2019, 12:23:28 AM »

If you want to keep your 401k active, you’ll have to invest in some type of fund that’s connected to the markets...which I believe (at least in the US) are headed for a downturn. If you listen to economists like Peter Schiff or Lynette Zang or Jim Willie, they all say we’re headed for huge market problems - high inflation, market losses and economic chaos.

If it were me, I’d take the hit and cash out and I’d use the $ to buy long-term food, silver, pay off your debts and some ammo. Start planning for turbulent times. Plan for food shortages and maybe worse.

Nadir · « **Reply #3 on:** June 05, 2019, 05:54:14 AM »

You say you are a single guy of 30. Do you own a home? Are you looking to marry? I would suggest property of some sort.

I am not American, so what would 401K buy you?

Stubborn · « **Reply #4 on:** June 05, 2019, 06:14:19 AM »

Roll it over into an online account like Ameritrade or Fidelity or ? and control the whole thing yourself. You can invest in whatever you want, and you can add and withdraw (with penalty) funds as you like.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #5 on:** June 05, 2019, 06:59:45 AM »

If it is a 401k (i.e., employer-sponsored fund), there isn't really anything you can do to get away from the banksters.

Leave the money in there and let it grow. When the time comes to receive penalty-free distributions upon retirement, be generous in having Masses said for your deceased family members, priests, and the poor souls. Help the poor.

Going forward, you have the option to cease making future contributions to this fund, and instead, with the money you would have contributed to the 401k, start investing with post-tax dollars in things like real estate (land), physical metals, Gold/Silver IRA's which are backed by physical silver/gold; etc.

PS: Also important to keep in mind the difference between productive and non-productive loans: The former has never been condemned; the latter has been condemned. In other words, one way to invest is to become a financier of ventures (i.e., you finance someone with a good business idea, and receive a percentage of the profits earned). That is called a productive loan, and is distinct from interest. See Dr. Davis Allen White's talk in Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice" for a good discussion of WHY interest/usury was condemned.

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** June 05, 2019, 08:25:42 AM »

You should detach yourself from "the penalty" as well as being different from everybody else. You should happily embrace both.

Just be glad you have a 401K to cash in! Think of all the Gen X and Millennials who don't even have such a nest egg to worry about!

The penalty is a small price to pay considering the BIG CRASH hasn't happened yet -- after that, you'll be left with near nothing. Git while the gittin's good!

Once you cash it in, pay off ANY debts including your mortgage, and invest it in equipment, supplies, and if you have cash left over, keep some in cash and then put the rest in physical gold, which has never been considered worthless since Adam & Eve were created.

Stocks, bonds, and cash have been worthless more times than historians can count.

If the stock market crashed, my 5 acres wouldn't magically shrink to 2 acres, 1 acre, or even 1/4 of an acre! But such reductions in wealth have happened DOZENS OF TIMES with fiat currencies, and stock market crashes.

Be smart.

The stock market is gambling. Consider yourself at Vegas, having won (however much is in your 401K). What do you do? "Let it ride", or cash in your chips and call yourself lucky?

Matthew · « **Reply #7 on:** June 05, 2019, 08:38:22 AM »

And if you are taking comfort that you have this big nest egg -- in the Stock Market or cash no less! -- but have no other "preparations" for the future, you're being a fool to be honest.

Being prepared ("prepped" as it were) for the future takes a lot more than a pile of cash, and certainly more than a bunch of e-cash or stock market 1s and 0s!

How about the 8 Gs?

God - your spiritual house in order, this would also count having a chapel nearby that you have supported for missionary priests to say Mass, spiritual books, etc. Your home should be a mini church of sorts
Gold - Financial resources - includes silver, some physical cash, and barter items
Guns - any means of security and self-defense. Besides things bought at a gun shop, there's cinder blocks, plywood in storage in case you need to cover windows, etc.
Grain - food, water, and medicine
Goods - supplies to produce more of these by hand - water filters, garden equipment, wood chipper, composting equipment, survival books, etc. Plus repair supplies to maintain everything by yourself -- including your family, house, garden, vehicles, etc.
Ground - owning land. This includes moving to and/or living in the right geographic location, and being debt-free wherever you are.
Grasp - Knowledge and hands-on experience of practical things. Not just a stack of books, but internal, tested knowledge and muscle memory. They can never take knowledge from you. Invest money in training, not just physical stuff. 1000 rounds in storage and 9000 rounds put downrange* is better than having 10K rounds in storage that will do you no good!
Group - getting to know your neighbors, forming relationships and groups BEFORE the collapse. Working with others will be vital in any collapse scenario. Even a Bingo club would be better than having no pre-existing social net.

*Note: I haven't gone to the range yet myself, but I just learned this and it's certainly true.

FeeneyFan · « **Reply #8 on:** June 05, 2019, 10:03:24 AM »

Thanks everyone for your advice... I think it’s clear now that I should cash it out so as to avoid making money through usury. Thank you Matthew for your advice too I think your post pushed me over the edge to stop worrying about the penalty and what others will think. God bless you all.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #9 on:** June 05, 2019, 10:59:39 AM »

Quote from: FeeneyFan on June 05, 2019, 10:03:24 AM

Thanks everyone for your advice... I think it’s clear now that I should cash it out so as to avoid making money through usury. Thank you Matthew for your advice too I think your post pushed me over the edge to stop worrying about the penalty and what others will think. God bless you all.

Epic imprudence!!

May I advise you to speak with a priest before squandering 40% of your savings based of armchair advice???

Foolish!!

Incredulous · « **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2019, 11:32:12 AM »

Somebody call a priest!

(just not a neoSSPX one) :farmer:

"Ah my dear faithful FeeneyFan... we could use your 401K funds to help the Society save the Catholic Church"

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** June 05, 2019, 11:38:59 AM »

Even the moral implications here that seem to be taken for granted are probably wrong.

Are you a formal or merely material participant in usury simply by investing your money in a mutual fund that sometimes buys bank stocks?

You can probably find funds that do not hold bank funds (that are specialized in certain ways).

Unless you are personally loaning out money to people and extracting interest, your participation in usury would only be material, and material participation can be justified morally under certain conditions.

So, you absolutely need to speak with a priest here.

Matthew, isn't this the same mentality that you've rebuked as the people who refuse to shop at certain retailers because they support immoral causes?

Quo vadis Domine · « **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2019, 12:17:54 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 05, 2019, 06:59:45 AM

If it is a 401k (i.e., employer-sponsored fund), there isn't really anything you can do to get away from the banksters.

Leave the money in there and let it grow. When the time comes to receive penalty-free distributions upon retirement, be generous in having Masses said for your deceased family members, priests, and the poor souls. Help the poor.

Going forward, you have the option to cease making future contributions to this fund, and instead, with the money you would have contributed to the 401k, start investing with post-tax dollars in things like real estate (land), physical metals, Gold/Silver IRA's which are backed by physical silver/gold; etc.

PS: Also important to keep in mind the difference between productive and non-productive loans: The former has never been condemned; the latter has been condemned. In other words, one way to invest is to become a financier of ventures (i.e., you finance someone with a good business idea, and receive a percentage of the profits earned). That is called a productive loan, and is distinct from interest. See Dr. Davis Allen White's talk in Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice" for a good discussion of WHY interest/usury was condemned.

Do you have a link to “David Allen White's talk in Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice"”?

Matto · « **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2019, 12:32:05 PM »

I really don't understand the whole usury debate. So many conflicting thoughts. Apologists say things. But anyway is it okay to have a savings account, or is that usury? I have a savings account. Right now I have about a thousand dollars in the savings account. So far this year I have received 2 pennies in interest payments. Pretty soon I will be rich. The Jєωs who own my bank are so generous.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #14 on:** June 05, 2019, 12:38:24 PM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on June 05, 2019, 12:17:54 PM

Do you have a link to “David Allen White's talk in Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice"”?

So far as I am aware, it is only available here:

http://stmarcelinitiative.com/bookstore/products/The-Christian-Comedy-of-Shakespeare%27s-The-Merchant-of-Venice-%252d-Part-I.html

Author Topic: Investing for retirement while avoiding usury? (Read 2552 times)

FeeneyFan

Investing for retirement while avoiding usury?

Incredulous

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Pax Vobis

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Nadir

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Stubborn

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SeanJohnson

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Matthew

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Matthew

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FeeneyFan

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SeanJohnson

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Incredulous

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Ladislaus

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Quo vadis Domine

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Matto

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SeanJohnson

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