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Author Topic: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration  (Read 1801 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2023, 01:07:10 PM »
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  • I trace this all to Sean desperately carrying water for Bishop Williamson to justify his statements regarding the NOM "Eucharistic" "miracles" and other statements about why it might be OK for people to attend the NOM.  Sean kept arguing about how the NOM could be valid and could confer grace even though it's harmful and bad.  So I see this point about NO Orders as dovetailing with it.  If the NO priests are invalid, then the purported NO miracles would have to be fraudulent.

    But, yes, he is on a trajectory toward justifying +Fellay's attitudes toward the Conciliar Church ... albeit certainly unwittingly, to the point that he quotes an article here that bases much of its argument on the "infallibility" of Vatican II and cites much Vatican II text as if it were of any value.  This article promotes precisely the +Fellay-ite view of Vatican II being "95% good".  But Sean doesn't care what principles are behind the argument, as long as the conclusion is the same.  He would cite Beelzebub himself if he happened to agree with him.

    These are from the opening words of the article he posted:
    I've argued this exact point against Sean for untold thousands of words, where he was REJECTING the notion that the Holy Ghost guides the Church to avoid serious error.  Author of the article says that he "respects" the Council.  Yet this doesn't stop Sean from citing it, despite having fought tooth and nail against these very notions when I was promoting them.  He didn't even bother to distance himself from these bad principles.  By posting it without comment as if it were definitive, he implies his endorsement of its entire contents, including the stuff that I KNOW he rejects.  So it's completely dishonest and disingenuous.

    It's similar to what Sean does with Siscoe & Salza, where he continues to promote them against SVism despite the fact that they apply the same principles to condemn ALL Traditional Catholics as in schism and outside the Church.  S&S consider Sean Johnson to be outside the Church, and yet that doesn't stop Johnson from continuing to support them.  We SVs pointed out the errors in S&S's principles right out of the gate, but we were ignored.  Then Salza turns on all Trad Catholics, including the ones who had been promoting their work.

    I have to assume that Sean does not endorse the positive remarks about the Council in the linked article. It seems to be the other remarks that are being referred to. Just like some SV's here point out that the Bruthas (Stubborn's word for them, which seems appropriate) have good things to say, but they are wrong about some issues.  

    I don't see that Sean is supporting S&S by posting this article. You have indeed pointed out the errors of S&S; yes, but you are in agreement with them about R&R as being outside the Church, correct?  In that sense, SVism and S&S are on the same page. 












    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline magdalena

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    Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
    « Reply #16 on: September 03, 2023, 04:17:25 PM »
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  • By the way, I can't seem to find Fr Cekada's position on the New Rite of Priestly Ordinations.  I know there is plenty out there about the NREC, but I can't find his position/writings on the NRPO.  Anyone have a link?
    I don’t know if this will post successfully.  For some reason, pdfs don’t post for me.  It’s the letter “m” in the word docuмent that seems to give me trouble.

    http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/NewEpConsArtPDF2.pdf
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline magdalena

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    Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
    « Reply #17 on: September 03, 2023, 04:27:57 PM »
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  • A YouTube of Fr. Cekada’s Work of Human Hands can be found here.

    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline magdalena

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    Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
    « Reply #18 on: September 03, 2023, 04:32:47 PM »
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  • Michael Davies on the problems with the New Rite of Ordination

    http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/ordinal.htm
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline magdalena

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    Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
    « Reply #19 on: September 03, 2023, 06:07:48 PM »
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  • Michael Davies on the problems with the New Rite of Ordination

    http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2
    Purging the Priesthood in the Conciliar Church
    Fr. William Jenkins SSPV

    https://novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/purging-priesthood.pdf
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline Deipara

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    Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
    « Reply #20 on: September 04, 2023, 04:50:39 AM »
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  • SSPX's Fr. Calderon Study on Episcopal Consecrations

    https://www.scribd.com/docuмent/270396261/Consagraciones-Episcopales-de-Pablo-VI-P-Calderon


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
    « Reply #21 on: September 04, 2023, 06:08:35 AM »
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  • I don’t know if this will post successfully.  For some reason, pdfs don’t post for me.  It’s the letter “m” in the word docuмent that seems to give me trouble.

    http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/NewEpConsArtPDF2.pdf
    Hi magdalena,

    That link is Father's writings about the New Rite of Episcopal Consecrations, not Priestly Ordinations.  However, I'll take another look at it because perhaps he does mention the NRPO in passing.

    Also, your other post is his/a video regarding his book Work of Human Hands.  That is about the New Mass, not the NRPO.  I do have it, so I could also double-check in there to see if he mentions something about it in passing.

    Offline magdalena

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    Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
    « Reply #22 on: September 04, 2023, 08:34:37 AM »
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  • 2Vermont, my mistake.  I noticed it after I posted it.  I have the book, “Work of Human Hands” as well.  I don’t think it’s in there either.  My mistake again.  Much hinges on “a valid Pope can’t give us an invalid  Sacrament”.
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline magdalena

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    Re: In Defense of the New Rites of Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration
    « Reply #23 on: September 04, 2023, 08:51:29 AM »
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  • 2Vermont, my mistake.  I noticed it after I posted it.  I have the book, “Work of Human Hands” as well.  I don’t think it’s in there either.  My mistake again.  Much hinges on “a valid Pope can’t give us an invalid  Sacrament”.
    Once again there’s this: 

    https://novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/purging-priesthood.pdf
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42