Author Topic: I firmly believe that.... (Read 1055 times)

spouse of Jesus · « **on:** November 22, 2009, 06:29:04 PM »

Catholicism is good even if you are not to be saved.
agree?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2009, 06:34:16 PM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

Catholicism is good even if you are not to be saved.
agree?

Why do you say that?

If a Catholic isn't saved he is squandering graces and is guiltier of a greater fault than non-Catholics.

Lybus · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2009, 06:35:48 PM »

If God is Goodness, and Christ is God, and Catholicism was founded by Christ, then yes, Catholicism is good.

That doesn't mean that a pope in hell will be any better off than an atheist, in fact, he will probably suffer much worse.

Vladimir · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2009, 07:25:16 PM »

Quote

That doesn't mean that a pope in hell will be any better off than an atheist, in fact, he will probably suffer much worse.

The saints are unanimous on this matter -- in Hell, those lost souls that were Catholics on earth will suffer infinitely more than a pagan soul that never knew about the True Faith.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2009, 01:58:39 AM »

But this religion has many natural aspects that are overlooked in favor of supernatural ones. Many deists who have no faith in The Church, love to study her because of her Art, Music, history and her great influnce on man and civilization etc.
Just consider the fact that many problem of the society could be solved if people were catholic.

Lybus · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2009, 05:59:59 AM »

Well, as Catholics, that's the idea :smile:

I've heard that we had a lot of intellectual monks in the scientifiic realm. I'm just not sure who they were exactly. I think a priest or a friar invented musical notes.

Belloc · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2009, 07:24:18 AM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

But this religion has many natural aspects that are overlooked in favor of supernatural ones. Many deists who have no faith in The Church, love to study her because of her Art, Music, history and her great influnce on man and civilization etc.
Just consider the fact that many problem of the society could be solved if people were catholic.

Hopefully, said studies will lead them to the Church......natural law would apply only if reason/grace were absent, ie the fellow on the jungles aor island that never heard the Gospel...the more you see/hear, less ignorant one is....though in end God knows the heart and mind of the individual.....

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2009, 09:26:34 AM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

But this religion has many natural aspects that are overlooked in favor of supernatural ones. Many deists who have no faith in The Church, love to study her because of her Art, Music, history and her great influnce on man and civilization etc.
Just consider the fact that many problem of the society could be solved if people were catholic.

To be Catholic means to really be Catholic: to have Faith. The graces that the Church brings us can only come to those who have the Faith. Those who have lost the Faith but try to manipulate the Church end up being a source of corruption: that is how we have the Novus Ordo.

Modernists going through the motions out of appreciation for the moral and artistic greatness of Catholicism cannot gain from it, unless they are truly converted.

Lybus · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2009, 09:35:33 AM »

I think she's aware of that, but it's also good to notice that Europe civilized itself quite quickly and prospered under the Catholic Church, so it's nice to know that there are exterior benefits (art, philsophy, etc) as well as interior (salvation of soul).

Telesphorus · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2009, 09:48:56 AM »

Quote from: Lybus

I think she's aware of that, but it's also good to notice that Europe civilized itself quite quickly and prospered under the Catholic Church, so it's nice to know that there are exterior benefits (art, philsophy, etc) as well as interior (salvation of soul).

Yes, of course. That is why one must support the Social Doctrine of Christ the King.

Lybus · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2009, 10:02:46 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Lybus
I think she's aware of that, but it's also good to notice that Europe civilized itself quite quickly and prospered under the Catholic Church, so it's nice to know that there are exterior benefits (art, philsophy, etc) as well as interior (salvation of soul).

Yes, of course. That is why one must support the Social Doctrine of Christ the King.

Indeed :)

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2009, 11:35:43 AM »

Great evils happen in a society that labels people as "worthy" and "worthless" accoreding to their college degree or social statues. I think that every human being is born with a keen desire to be loved and respected. If any man can't satisfy this need in a lawful way, he may try to gain it illegally. For example: if a man is denied love and respect because of his lowly job or simply because he can't have a MA, he may try to gain respect by making a fraud MA certificate. (it happens!)
If a sterile person is told that s/he is not a man/woman, if such a one is mocked and teased on this account, he may try to conceive at any price, even if it means disobeying God, just to gain people's respect.

Catholicism puts an end to all this stuff, when she says that the main thing about man is his immortal soul, when she canonizes so many poor and illiterate persons, and those who suffer from any physical disored including barrenness....

Lybus · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2009, 02:24:43 PM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

Great evils happen in a society that labels people as "worthy" and "worthless" accoreding to their college degree or social statues. I think that every human being is born with a keen desire to be loved and respected. If any man can't satisfy this need in a lawful way, he may try to gain it illegally. For example: if a man is denied love and respect because of his lowly job or simply because he can't have a MA, he may try to gain respect by making a fraud MA certificate. (it happens!)
If a sterile person is told that s/he is not a man/woman, if such a one is mocked and teased on this account, he may try to conceive at any price, even if it means disobeying God, just to gain people's respect.

Catholicism puts an end to all this stuff, when she says that the main thing about man is his immortal soul, when she canonizes so many poor and illiterate persons, and those who suffer from any physical disored including barrenness....

:applause: My priest would be proud.