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Author Topic: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel  (Read 7514 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2018, 03:00:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croix de Fer on June 30, 2018, 02:40:40 PM
    Wrong. You're not even properly catechized in the Faith as a convert.

    "For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins." ~ Matthew 26:28

    Christ didn't say "for all". The word "many" isn't the same as "all", nor does it mean a majority. It can mean a sizable minority, such as those who are Catholic. Being Catholic means you are a member of Christ's Mystical Body. A person is married to Him through the Church. However, as we know by His own words, few of these Catholics will be saved, while most of the others, due to lukewarmness & sin, will be cast into everlasting perdition, even those who call upon His Name at Judgement. Read Matthew 7:21-23; Luke 18:8; Matthew 7:14; Revelation 3:16.

    His Sacrifice redeems ONLY the faithful who are without stain of mortal sin, and who are baptized with water & Spirit. This proves the Lord God has boundaries. His salvation is for only the elect - the Catholic faithful who die without mortal sin, which is why He gave us the Sacraments.

    Man is permitted by God to have boundaries when dealing with a disobedient wife. Her disobedience shows a lack of love for him. One of these boundaries can be a prenup, if the unfortunate case arises that the wife turns against the husband through a "divorce".

    You lose, again.
    Council of Trent:

    "But, though He died for all, yet do not all receive the benefit of His death, but those only unto whom the merit of His passion is communicated. "

    He died for all, but not all will benefit.  Christ knew beforehand that there would be those who will disobey and not love him.

    You're still wrong Croix.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #16 on: June 30, 2018, 06:04:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Carissima on June 30, 2018, 11:37:25 AM
    Prenuptial agreement and financial stability be damned, it is the soul of the spouse and their eternal destiny, that is what matters.

    Well put.  Croix has imbibed so much of the world that he's completely forgotten this Catholic perspective.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #17 on: June 30, 2018, 06:55:33 PM »
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    Prenuptial agreement and financial stability be damned, it is the soul of the spouse and their eternal destiny, that is what matters. 
    Your idealism is nice, but it has no practical application.  Explain to me how a husband has ANY influence on his wife's salvation, if she is incentivized by the State to destroy the marriage, steal the children and get paid for it?  Once she's gone, you have ZERO influence on her life and VERY LOW influence on your children's as well.  All you're left with is prayer (which prayers, no matter how good, cannot affect free will, which your wife used to destroy the marriage).  So all your spiritual sentiments sound lovely, but they are meaningless, practically speaking.

    The purpose of the whole prenup debate is to ADD PRACTICAL, REAL-LIFE CONSEQUENCES to DIS-INCENTIVIZE a wife from leaving.  (The husband already has dis-incentives to leave, because he'll lose his children and most of his money).  Without any consequences, all a husband can do is "hope and pray" his marriage doesn't end due to a frivolous or emotional reason by his wife.  Prayer alone does not solve every problem.
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #18 on: June 30, 2018, 08:06:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Carissima on June 30, 2018, 11:37:25 AM
    Sorry, but you are dead wrong.

    And you have most definitely proved that it would not be prudent for you to marry until your error is corrected.

    Christ delivered Himself up for souls..the husband and wife deliver themselves up for each other.
    Both the husband and wife have a spiritual duty to get each ones soul to Heaven. It is a Life’s Mission in the Marriage State.
    If one of the spouses fails and turns to a life of sin (or minor faults/overall weakness) it is the responsibility of the other spouse to obtain the grace on behalf of the failing one to merit their conversion back from error.

    This is a very simple fact of Catholic Marriage, and for you Croix it is completely missing from your sense and understanding of the Sacrament of Matrimony and the Marriage State.

    Prenuptial agreement and financial stability be damned, it is the soul of the spouse and their eternal destiny, that is what matters.
    .
    It's because he's a teenage who thinks he knows everything.
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #19 on: June 30, 2018, 08:09:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on June 30, 2018, 06:55:33 PM
     Prayer alone does not solve every problem.
    .
    You need more Faith.  Prayer CAN solve every problem.  
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #20 on: June 30, 2018, 08:20:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croix de Fer on June 30, 2018, 06:12:52 PM
    Sounds all pious, brah, but the Lord God gave us physical works to be done on earth, too, to help build His Social Kingship. It's not all about the spiritual, but the temporal work is necessary, too. How can man contribute to building what God wants on earth when his tapeworm wife has "divorced" him and stolen his equity and life-savings? This is why a prenup is most prudent. You're opposing me out of some cognitive compensation because you've castrated yourself by not getting a prenup and not avoiding a state marriage license.
    What a way to very cavalierly dismiss a CATHOLIC perspective on marriage.

    I wasn't calling for your banning before, but at this point, you've become a full-blown Protestant. 

    Two things. A) submit to the Catholic teaching on marriage and B) stop using the word "brah" every three sentences like a child.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #21 on: June 30, 2018, 08:24:41 PM »
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    You need more Faith.  Prayer CAN solve every problem.  
    Prayer ALONE does not always.
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #22 on: June 30, 2018, 08:27:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on June 30, 2018, 08:24:41 PM
    Prayer ALONE does not always.
    It can...  God can do all things.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #23 on: June 30, 2018, 09:32:03 PM »
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    God can do all things.
    Except He will not (and cannot) violate a person’s free will.  In the scenario we’re talking about, of a bad willed spouse, even prayers are limited by the person’s disposition.  God can give grace but He cannot force a person to accept this grace.  Look at Judas.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #24 on: June 30, 2018, 09:47:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croix de Fer on June 30, 2018, 03:20:31 PM
    No, you're wrong. The Catholic Mass of Trent even says His Blood is shed for "many", not "all".


    Unbeknownst to you, this comment only supports my argument that those people who reject Christ, even those in the Church, through lukewarmness & sin, and those outside the Church due to schism, unbelief & heresy, don't receive the award of Heaven. The award gained by Christ delivering Himself up doesn't extend to these people outside the Church and unrepentant sinners. By parallel, the awards of a man's sacrifices shouldn't extend to a faithless, unloving, disobedient wife. God has boundaries, and so man is permitted to have boundaries. A prenup can be such a boundary to a predatory, scheming, unloving wife who "divorces" him in order to steal what he owns and built.

    You lose, again.
    This is where you completely miss my original point.  Christ delivered Himself up knowing full well that not all would believe and obey him...in fact if we are honest  none of us remain faithful to Him.  And yet He still got on the Cross.

    When you demand a prenup because you want to protect yourself from a disobedient and unfaithful wife, you do not act as Christ acted. Christ acted selflessly, concerned about saving souls.  You act out of selfish worldly concerns.

    You need to grow up...in more ways than one.  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #25 on: June 30, 2018, 10:05:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on June 30, 2018, 09:32:03 PM
    Except He will not (and cannot) violate a person’s free will.  In the scenario we’re talking about, of a bad willed spouse, even prayers are limited by the person’s disposition.  God can give grace but He cannot force a person to accept this grace.  Look at Judas.
    .
    True.  But He can soften the heart of the bad willed person, He can make the bad willed person's life miserable. He has so many ways of handling things we cannot even begin to imagine His ways.
    .
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #26 on: June 30, 2018, 10:36:19 PM »
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    • No, it's YOU who needs to stop listening to that bumbling pissant "Pastor" Dowell, and adopt the Catholic faith, Iron Cross.

    I can assure you that it will do you good to stop heeding his advice.

    If you're going to take the advice of a bumbling, rambling non-Christian pissant with the emotional maturity of a 30-year-old basement dweller who hasn't seen daylight or a girl since the Van Buren administration over centuries of Catholic doctrine, then shame on you! Go to the Hebrew Israelite church, then!

    Find whoever introduced you to this bumbling, anti-Christian (if he's a Christian, so is Karl Marx) weasel and sock them in the mouth, please.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #27 on: June 30, 2018, 10:42:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croix de Fer on June 30, 2018, 10:11:29 PM
    No, you miss the point. Continue below to see how...

    When you demand there not be a prenuptial agreement, you act selfishly and for worldly interests, while you subject the man to potential ruin, if the time comes where you decide to turn your back on him by getting a "divorce" and using the courts to steal everything he built and earned by his own sweat.

    You, also, act worldly in demanding a State marriage license which shows your lack of Faith in God's grace to help ensure a harmonious marriage conferred by the Church. You need your state marriage license for validation as if the Sacrament of Marriage isn't valid enough... and even more, the State marriage license gives you the power to use the courts to steal the man's home, assets, savings, etc, simply for deciding you want a "divorce" with no other reason given. The courts are heavily biased in favor of women regardless of reasons for "divorce". Why shouldn't a man protect himself by getting a prenup?  

    You need to grow a brain and become properly catechized in the Faith in more ways than one.

    You can set double standards about worldly ways and selfishness, and you can move the goal post to make yourself appear right, but the truth is against you. You're a deceiver, and you know what I'm talking about...
    The only one trying to deceive others here is you.  You keep posting that we DEMAND no prenup and a state marriage license when that is a complete and utter lie.

    I am sick of your childish, prideful comments.  

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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #28 on: June 30, 2018, 10:50:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on June 30, 2018, 10:42:28 PM
    The only one trying to deceive others here is you.  
    Negatory. Failed projection.


    Quote
    You keep posting that we DEMAND no prenup and a state marriage license when that is a complete and utter lie.
    Why is the default on the side of female privilege? Understand? Why do you (women) demand that there be no prenup and demand a state marriage license? You have just as much selfishness as the man wanting a prenup and wanting to avoid a license. Does female privilege always get effected? I see you can't address my point about needing validation from the state which is an affront to God because you obviously don't think the Sacrament of Marriage conferred by the Church is enough...


    Quote
    I am sick of your childish, prideful comments.
    Can any goy be as prideful as the stiff-necked Jєω?
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himsel
    « Reply #29 on: June 30, 2018, 10:52:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croix de Fer on June 30, 2018, 10:50:52 PM
    Negatory. Failed projection.

    Why is the default on the side of female privilege? Understand? Why do you (women) demand that there be no prenup and demand a state marriage license? You have just as much selfishness as the man wanting a prenup and wantiing to avoid a license. Does female privilege always get effected? I see you can't address my point about needing validation from the state which is an affront to God because you obviously don't think the Sacrament of Marriage conferred by the Church is enough...




    Can any goy be as prideful as the stiff-necked Jєω?
    Are you doubting her conversion? At that point, you've crossed the line.
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