[Jaynek]

I sometimes see this topic mentioned on other threads, but I do not recall reading a thread dedicated to this topic.  What is the ideal for women when we are involved in forum discussions?

Since women are different from men, it makes sense that there would be differences online and I am trying to figure out what they are.  One idea that I have seen come up is that women should not teach, which is true obviously. How do we tell the difference between teaching, quoting a Church teaching (that's OK, right?), and stating an opinion?

I have seen the opinion that women should not even be in the same discussion forum with men.  Does anyone here think that?  What are the reasons?

[Marlelar]

Women teach their children, in schools, and also teach catechism classes so I don't think "teaching" per se is a problem.  And "teaching" implies having "students" so that is not possible on a forum.  All of us express our opinions, no one on a forum "teaches".

I cannot think of a logical reason why men and women should not be on the same forum, besides how would we really know?  Individuals self-identify as male or female on discussion boards but we have no way to verify it.

[Jaynek]

I was not clear in what I said about teaching.  I was talking about the idea that women should not teach men or have authority over them.  That is a basic principle from Scripture, so I understand why people object to women posting in a way that comes across as doing that.

[TKGS]

I believe men and women should participate in forums in the same way they would discuss similar matters in the parish hall or around the kitchen table.

Does your parish separate the men and women after Mass either and do the men and women have separate conversations in the parish hall?  Of do men and women discuss issues together?

[Jaynek]

I believe men and women should participate in forums in the same way they would discuss similar matters in the parish hall or around the kitchen table.

Does your parish separate the men and women after Mass either and do the men and women have separate conversations in the parish hall?  Of do men and women discuss issues together?

There is a separate men's study group and women's study group, but informal discussions sometimes happen together.  Sometimes, for informal discussions, people automatically separate by sex since they tend to have different interests.

[2Vermont]

We discuss various things including Church and theological issues.  Some women take part; some don't.

[Croixalist]

There aren't any special rules of decorum for females on forums. My only advice is to avoid using some classic feminine debate tactics: shaming, smothering, playing the victim card ad nauseum, etc...

I don't believe women should bar themselves from these discussions, but they ought to be aware of some classic tendencies of their sex. We men have our bad tendencies too, but we are forced to answer for it on a routine basis.  All of society tends to pampers women into a limbo state between teenagers and true adults in terms of accountability... from my own observation, traditional Catholic families are not entirely free from this.  

[Jaynek]

There aren't any special rules of decorum for females on forums. My only advice is to avoid using some classic feminine debate tactics: shaming, smothering, playing the victim card ad nauseum, etc...  

Do you think that direct forceful speech that seems normal for a man can seem pushy when used by a women?

[OHCA]

I was not clear in what I said about teaching.  I was talking about the idea that women should not teach men or have authority over them.  That is a basic principle from Scripture, so I understand why people object to women posting in a way that comes across as doing that.

She finally says something right and gets down-thumbed.  Shame on whoever did so.  I up-thumbed this.  I wonder whether it's somebody who just hates her very soul that much or a full-fledged modernist.  Either way, you need prayer.

[Viva Cristo Rey]

"We've had enough of exhortations to be silent! Cry out with a hundred thousand tongues. I see that the world is rotten because of silence."
St. Catherine of Siena.

[OHCA]

There aren't any special rules of decorum for females on forums. My only advice is to avoid using some classic feminine debate tactics: shaming, smothering, playing the victim card ad nauseum, etc...  

Do you think that direct forceful speech that seems normal for a man can seem pushy when used by a women?

Yes it can.  If a man is trying to advocate against a settled Catholic point, then a woman who knows better should dig in and hold fast to and air the Catholic position.  But on such things as sede vs. R&R or the BOD dispute, which, as much as some like to pontificate that they are, are in fact not settled issues.  I perceive it as unbecoming a Catholic lady chiming in and heatedly getting into the mix of that fray.  Simply ask questions and learn what you can.

The world is in a mess, by freemasonic/Jєω design, in large part because of women usurping the role of men, and men wussing out and stepping aside.

[Croixalist]

There aren't any special rules of decorum for females on forums. My only advice is to avoid using some classic feminine debate tactics: shaming, smothering, playing the victim card ad nauseum, etc...  

Do you think that direct forceful speech that seems normal for a man can seem pushy when used by a women?

Well, there's always St. Joan of Arc as an example! By all means if you have something you need to say forcefully, say it, but be prepared to defend it and not pull the victim card when things get really nasty. My observation has been many ladies don't realize how far their gestures could take them and often aren't prepared emotionally to handle a full-blown disagreement with an average man.

In face to face interactions, women rarely get to see the kind of argumentation that goes on between men because we deliberately try to keep that away from them. I think most guys instinctually know not to bring women into a heated debate because it's almost guaranteed women will try to pull a silencing move. The "shush" card gets played often because it's probably the easiest way for women assert control over men. In the long run, it never resolves an issue.  

Women hold tremendous sway over men in some areas, and getting in the middle of an argument because they don't like conflict is one of them. Sometimes a fight needs to be broken up, but sometimes sides need to be taken and actively defended. Women are famous for their ability to "break it up", but their ability to be solid fellow combatants does not come naturally.

This isn't to say men don't use these tactics either. It's just more noticeable when we do it... and we are pretty good at making the other guy pay for their mistakes!

My best advice is to try to be subtle without being contradictory or manipulative. Be honest about your true intentions! Be careful to respect the importance of what is being argued and make it a priority once you decide to enter into a discussion (with a man at any rate). Shaming does not work well over an impersonal medium like this one. The counterpart for men is when we try to sound threatening, aka GaJєωski when he was calling me out like he wanted to fight me. Doesn't help the argument, and it sounds completely out of place.

Just make sure that whatever you do, this doesn't become a huge emotional/spiritual drain. Men can detach themselves more easily in this regard. Ladies ought to be mindful of that and they are disadvantaged because of it from the outset. That being said, all of us need to know when to walk away. I'm not a complete emotionless slab!

[Jaynek]

There aren't any special rules of decorum for females on forums. My only advice is to avoid using some classic feminine debate tactics: shaming, smothering, playing the victim card ad nauseum, etc...  

Do you think that direct forceful speech that seems normal for a man can seem pushy when used by a women?

Yes it can.  If a man is trying to advocate against a settled Catholic point, then a woman who knows better should dig in and hold fast to and air the Catholic position.  But on such things as sede vs. R&R or the BOD dispute, which, as much as some like to pontificate that they are, are in fact not settled issues.  I perceive it as unbecoming a Catholic lady chiming in and heatedly getting into the mix of that fray.  Simply ask questions and learn what you can.

The world is in a mess, by freemasonic/Jєω design, in large part because of women usurping the role of men, and men wussing out and stepping aside.

That is a very helpful distinction. It makes a lot of sense that settled Catholic teaching should be treated differently.  Thank you.

[Jaynek]

There aren't any special rules of decorum for females on forums. My only advice is to avoid using some classic feminine debate tactics: shaming, smothering, playing the victim card ad nauseum, etc...  

Do you think that direct forceful speech that seems normal for a man can seem pushy when used by a women?

Well, there's always St. Joan of Arc as an example! By all means if you have something you need to say forcefully, say it, but be prepared to defend it and not pull the victim card when things get really nasty. My observation has been many ladies don't realize how far their gestures could take them and often aren't prepared emotionally to handle a full-blown disagreement with an average man.

That fits my experience.  I can't handle it very well.  

Do you have suggestions about what a woman can do if she inadvertently gets into that situation?  I see what you mean about not playing the victim card, but is there some way to surrender?

[Croixalist]

That fits my experience.  I can't handle it very well.  

Do you have suggestions about what a woman can do if she inadvertently gets into that situation?  I see what you mean about not playing the victim card, but is there some way to surrender?

Surrender is a loaded term! Don't concede a point unless you've been convinced. You don't want to jump into something haphazardly, but you also don't want to roll over just for a tummy rub.

I'll start with myself. If I get too angry, I just stop posting. Some topics require more of a cool down than others.  My personal limit is probably way higher than most, admittedly!

There's no point trying to announce it while it's happening. No point in conceding something I'm not about to concede. If I feel I said something out of turn, I'll admit to it where I can. If not, I'm content remaining in open disagreement. I'm not perfect and I have gone over the line from time to time. I do try to stay objective and not to harbor grudges or long term hatreds. The goal of my rhetoric is mostly just to break down what I believe is wrong but not wanting to utterly destroy someone.

I'll admit it doesn't quite look like that at times!

As much as I would like to get people to agree with me, I can't make them. It's useful to set my limits before I get involved. I say what I think needs to be said and move on.

So my advice can be summed up like this: whenever you get too emotionally invested, immediately disengage and get away from the PC. It might be useful to examine why exactly it is that got to that level in the first place. How much you need people to agree and/or acknowledge your point? If you are truly secure in your position, you'll be able to let go of outside validation. The need for someone to agree with us can often make us feel like we're developing a better argument than the one we actually have.

Give yourself room away from the argument to do some more research before stepping back in. Give yourself permission to be wrong and learn from it. The best time to walk away is when arguments begin to repeat. If nothing new is being said, it's not worth continuing. As long as you're satisfied your view has been well represented, all that's left are deep seated beliefs which may or may not need a minor miracle to change no matter how obviously wrong it may seem to you.

And hey, if you find that you were wrong don't be ashamed to admit it, but be careful not to over-apologize!