Author Topic: How to Treat Effeminate Men? (Read 8179 times)

Zeitun · « **Reply #45 on:** November 10, 2013, 11:32:52 PM »

Summa Theologica II-II, 154, 11:

Quote

I answer that, As stated above (A6,9) wherever there occurs a special kind of deformity whereby the venereal act is rendered unbecoming, there is a determinate species of lust. This may occur in two ways: First, through being contrary to right reason, and this is common to all lustful vices; secondly, because, in addition, it is contrary to the natural order of the venereal act as becoming to the human race: and this is called "the unnatural vice." This may happen in several ways. First, by procuring pollution, without any copulation, for the sake of venereal pleasure: this pertains to the sin of "uncleanness" which some call "effeminacy." Secondly, by copulation with a thing of undue species, and this is called "bestiality." Thirdly, by copulation with an undue sex, male with male, or female with female, as the Apostle states (Rm. 1:27): and this is called the "vice of sodomy." Fourthly, by not observing the natural manner of copulation, either as to undue means, or as to other monstrous and bestial manners of copulation.

Nadir · « **Reply #46 on:** November 11, 2013, 12:40:25 AM »

I was about to say, "but this topic is about effeminacy" then Zeitun came up with that quote. Very interesting. I had only thought about it terms of outward mannerisms. The definition is much wider.

I did a search and came up with this from the Summa http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3138.htm :

Quote

Article 1. Whether effeminacy is opposed to perseverance?
Effeminacy: Mollities, literally 'softness'
Objection 1. It seems that effeminacy is not opposed to perseverance. For a gloss on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind," expounds the text thus: "Effeminate--i.e. obscene, given to unnatural vice." But this is opposed to chastity. Therefore effeminacy is not a vice opposed to perseverance.

Click the link and read on for the answer.

Trad guy: A real man can show, and control, his emotions.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #47 on:** November 11, 2013, 07:53:55 AM »

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

Quote from: Mithrandylan
Our Lord cried at Gethsemane. The Jєωs laughed at Him. See?

Our Lord cried because of the burden and sorrow of the sin of the world and because of the massive task that had to be accomplished because of original sin (i.e. being nalied to the Cross). It had nothing to do with a trivial concern like not winning a trophy for some championship or because your parents yell at you.

Which is exactly why I said that your quote makes no sense without further qualification.

Mama ChaCha · « **Reply #48 on:** November 11, 2013, 12:11:01 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Our Lord cried at Gethsemane. The Jєωs laughed at Him. See?

Our Lord cried because of the burden and sorrow of the sin of the world and because of the massive task that had to be accomplished because of original sin (i.e. being nalied to the Cross). It had nothing to do with a trivial concern like not winning a trophy for some championship or because your parents yell at you.

Which is exactly why I said that your quote makes no sense without further qualification.

I get what you're saying traditional guy. It is unmanly to weep into hysterics over trivial matters. And a good bit of your grandfather's wisdom is due to cultural adherence as well. No men in my family ever cry. They're just not excessively emotional. They do have emotions which run very deeply, but they'd prefer to find a solution to it, or deal with it privately than to make a display of it. That's just their way. I don't think it has a whole lot to do with manliness except from a cultural perspective.

I have to admit that I dig the strong, silent type. A man who just does what needs doing, isn't overly chatty or frivolous, and for heaven's sake knows how to take care of his family without constantly complaining about it. There's where I think you and I see eye to eye. We both agree that a man should be tough, observant, resourceful, knowledgeable and shrewd in dealing with others.

Not speaking strictly on effeminate men, but my great grandmother used to say "Better to be silent and though a fool than to open one's mouth and confirm it." So I think maybe when it comes to effeminate men, a lot of their problem is that they tend to advertise the fact. It's just mannerisms, and those are changeable. If a man doesn't want to be perceived as ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, don't act like a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ.

bowler · « **Reply #49 on:** November 11, 2013, 02:11:46 PM »

Quote from: BitDudeX

I have a better question:

How to treat overly MACHO guys. They are almost worse then extremely effeminate men.

How do you describe an overly macho guy? How can they be worse than extremely effeminate men? At the very least, it is a mortal sin of scandal and bad example to be an extremely effeminate man. At worst it is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.

I see an extremely effeminate man at my church and I'm instantly on the alert for mine and all the children and young adults around me.

(P.S.- are you a man or a woman?)

Immaculata001 · « **Reply #50 on:** November 11, 2013, 06:13:13 PM »

I also don't understand what an "overly macho" guy would be? I'm guessing it would be someone who is boastful or prideful and/or brags about sɛҳuąƖ sins with women? That's a different kind of sin than effeminacy, I guess?

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: BitDudeX
I have a better question:

How to treat overly MACHO guys. They are almost worse then extremely effeminate men.

How do you describe an overly macho guy? How can they be worse than extremely effeminate men? At the very least, it is a mortal sin of scandal and bad example to be an extremely effeminate man. At worst it is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.

I see an extremely effeminate man at my church and I'm instantly on the alert for mine and all the children and young adults around me.

(P.S.- are you a man or a woman?)

BitDudeX · « **Reply #51 on:** November 11, 2013, 06:24:39 PM »

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: BitDudeX
I have a better question:

How to treat overly MACHO guys. They are almost worse then extremely effeminate men.

How do you describe an overly macho guy? How can they be worse than extremely effeminate men? At the very least, it is a mortal sin of scandal and bad example to be an extremely effeminate man. At worst it is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.

I see an extremely effeminate man at my church and I'm instantly on the alert for mine and all the children and young adults around me.

(P.S.- are you a man or a woman?)

Quote from: Immaculata001

I also don't understand what an "overly macho" guy would be? I'm guessing it would be someone who is boastful or prideful and/or brags about sɛҳuąƖ sins with women? That's a different kind of sin than effeminacy, I guess?

Quote from: bowler
Quote from: BitDudeX
I have a better question:

How to treat overly MACHO guys. They are almost worse then extremely effeminate men.

How do you describe an overly macho guy? How can they be worse than extremely effeminate men? At the very least, it is a mortal sin of scandal and bad example to be an extremely effeminate man. At worst it is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.

I see an extremely effeminate man at my church and I'm instantly on the alert for mine and all the children and young adults around me.

(P.S.- are you a man or a woman?)

I am a man.

MACHO = The kinda guy who is afraid of anything even slightly feminine and trys way tooooo hard to be "manly".

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #52 on:** November 11, 2013, 10:48:43 PM »

Scriptures are CLEAR on men who are "disobedient, vain talkers,..seducers" and other untamed, uncivilized, and ungodly men. Flip open to almost any page: WHAM! "Don't be THIS" or "DO be that".

I just flipped to Titus, and while it's talking about elders of the Church, the positive qualities men should strive for are "not proud, not subject to anger, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre: But given to hospitality, gentle, sober, just, holy, continent: Embracing that faithful word which is according to doctrine, that he may be able to exhort in sound doctrine, and to convince the gainsayers. For there are also many disobedient, vain talkers, and seducers: especially they who are of the circuмcision: Who must be reproved, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of them a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slothful bellies. This testimony is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jєωιѕн fables and commandments of men, who turn themselves away from the truth. All things are clean to the clean: but to them that are defiled, and to unbelievers, nothing is clean: but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess that they know God: but in their works they deny him; being abominable, and incredulous, and to every good work reprobate." (St. Paul's Epistle to Titus, ch. 1)

There's more of course, but it's fairly clear that revilers (the one I was looking for and can't FIND, of course) and braggarts, the "overly macho" men, aren't of God.

Unless they're prophets or something like Samson, who God fashions for a reason (in that case, I suppose to take out a bunch of Philistines.)

ggreg: yes I know that effeminate is quite a card. Maybe it's some kind of cultural ...no, I can't explain it. He's very devout during Mass, but at coffee hour...? At a party? Woah. I definitely pray for him. I might be reading him all wrong though and I'm the one in sin for ...well, a man shouldn't jump on a chair and leave the women and children to fend for themselves. This is a hard case for us. I can imagine him becoming a grumpy old man and losing some of his "affectations."

Sigismund · « **Reply #53 on:** November 14, 2013, 05:33:01 PM »

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

Quote from: Sigismund
I am trying to take this seriously, becasue i generally want to show emotion by cheering your posts on politics,

That seems rather strange since I thought a few people on here consider me an evil fascist, nαzι, racist, reactionary, homophobe, etc. who is just so cold and uncaring and hateful towards everyone in the world and would never get married. :wink:

Oh come on now. You are only one or two of those things. Or maybe three. Perhaps four on a bad day. :smile: :wink: