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Offline Immaculata001

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How to Treat Effeminate Men?
« on: October 24, 2013, 09:30:40 PM »
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  • I have been considering the acceptance and promotion of "transexualism" over at FE, and I happened to watch the movie "Infamous," which depicts Truman Capote's life at the time of the writing of In Cold Blood.

    Capote, a famous American writer, was notoriously effeminate -- he was extremely so...

    It caused me to consider how one should treat men who are extremely effeminate?  I think we've all known of sissies from our youth who were very shocking in their behavior, their walk, their voices, and their interests. Some men are so effeminate that they seem to have a feminine build. As a child, and as depicted in the film which was set in the 1960s, I remember effeminate boys causing intense anxiety among both women and men.

    Some men are so effeminate that it's extremely difficult for them to disguise it. What should they do? If they are celibate and not being brazen, how should one behave towards them?

    I have a former coworker who's effeminate. I speak to him and treat him kindly, but I don't discuss romantic relationships with him or anything that might lead him to disclose anything -- I've also taken to praying for his conversion just as I pray for my own conversion.
    "But 'tis strange:
    And oftentimes, to win us to our harm,
    The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
    Win us with honest trifles, to betray's
    In deepest consequence.." Banquo, from Shakespeare's Macbeth

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #1 on: October 24, 2013, 09:39:01 PM »
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  • There was a person at my work who was very effeminate.  I am almost certain he was homosexual.  I stayed far away.  Fortunately, my job doesn't normally put me in a position of interaction with my co-workers.  The only risks were on break or lunch.  It is wise to be not too familiar with people who purport an un-Catholic culture and morals.  This may not be the best approach, but I have found it helpful for my own sanity.
    More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com


    Offline Cantarella

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2013, 09:40:11 PM »
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  • Civil but distant.

    Also, keep this soul in your prayers.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Immaculata001

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #3 on: October 24, 2013, 09:46:35 PM »
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  • I should say that I'm a woman -- it's a little different than a man interacting with an effeminate man. I think most normal men would not consider associating with an effeminate man; IMO, if a man does want to be around an effeminate man he's got some unsavory motive...

    But what should some effeminate do about how it shows up? For instance, some of them have extremely high pitched voices, even when speaking very low. I'm not sure what they can do about it.

    Of course, traditional teaching is that they should be celibate and humble, but the discomfort with what's obvious remains...
    "But 'tis strange:
    And oftentimes, to win us to our harm,
    The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
    Win us with honest trifles, to betray's
    In deepest consequence.." Banquo, from Shakespeare's Macbeth

    Offline s2srea

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #4 on: October 24, 2013, 09:49:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Civil but distant.

    Also, keep this soul in your prayers.


    I agree. There is a man at my work who is effeminate. He does not say he's a homosexual, and honestly I am unsure if he really is or not. I am cordial with him, and he with me. We were both working out in our workplace gym, and even got to discussing the Faith to an extent.


    Offline Frances

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #5 on: October 24, 2013, 10:01:31 PM »
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  • Not all men with feminine traits, ie, a high voice, odd way of walking, are homosexuals.  I have a distant relative in his 20s who has cerebal palsy, developmental delays and a severe speech impediment.  He is often mistaken for being "gay" and finds it very distressing, as he is most definitely NOT!  I'd be kind, polite, friendly unless the man acts inappropriately.  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline StCeciliasGirl

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #6 on: October 24, 2013, 11:06:34 PM »
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  • Some of that is just personality, I think. I know some perfectly hetero married men who just know how to get their girl on, somewhat accidentally.  :facepalm: They're effeminate. One I'm thinking of has a wife who KNOWS he leans effeminate, especially with his girly giggle if he drinks a beer. She's a Baptist convert who tells her husband when he's getting a little "giddy", and that's her code word for him to man it up a little (or stop drinking). And it seems to work. I think she's saving his soul by helping him with his mannerisms. Clearly, he thinks so as well. He's simply more respected when he's acting more manly; he knows it. I think he looks at it as a vice.

    And of course most of us probably know gay men who don't seem effeminate at all.

    My Baptist convert friend (Bible THUMPER, esp since we showed her THE REST of the Bible) says sodomy is a separate sin from being effeminate, but a sin all the same, and that there's really no excuse for a hetero man to act like a flaming Sodomite. —And our priest agreed with her and (to calm her down, I think), then waxed on about the privileged man not being used to toil, and whether or not a man tries to fight back if he's punched. I think it's from St. Thomas' vices opposed to perseverance. Brilliant, but a bit over my head (and I think would be greatly expounded upon if St. Thomas could write about what we have around us today).

    I think that effeminate behaviors in men offend God and should be harshly ignored, though I do sign a cross in my palm as a prayer for any strangers who pirouette by me on the streets.

    (Of course, as Frances points out, conditions like cerebral palsy might tend to demonstrate effeminate behaviors, but I think we're clear that we're talking about 100% pinky-in-the-air and womanly-Sodomite talk, like, "Girlfriend, love your shoes... Louboutin?" No man should know what a Louboutin is unless he's paying for an extravagant purchase his wife made and needs to yell at her about it.)
    Legem credendi, lex statuit supplicandi

    +JMJ

    Offline Immaculata001

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #7 on: October 24, 2013, 11:50:08 PM »
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  • Quote
    says sodomy is a separate sin from being effeminate


    Does being effeminate lead to someone becoming a sodomite? I think of effeminancy (sp?) as a kind of character defect. Some people are prone to rash judgments and wrath; other people are gluttons, for instance. If you take a character defect to its terminus, it leads to something. Wrath can lead to murder, in its extreme...

    I have a hard time reading some scholarly Church teachings, but I was wondering if someone could explain it in lay terms? Aquinas is too hard for me...
    "But 'tis strange:
    And oftentimes, to win us to our harm,
    The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
    Win us with honest trifles, to betray's
    In deepest consequence.." Banquo, from Shakespeare's Macbeth


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #8 on: October 24, 2013, 11:58:00 PM »
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  • Effeminate behavior is a vice.

    Men should not be that way.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #9 on: October 25, 2013, 12:35:11 AM »
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  • First, in the instance of those born as such:

    Immaculata, effeminacy is condemned in the Scriptures. However, there are remedies and it can be minimized. Certainly, if hormonal in origin, the man cannot be held "responsible" for the condition anymore than for the color of his hair.

    While, objectively and from a great remove, I might imagine that some of these poor creatures live an agonized life, bereft of real friends and making up for it by gathering any sort of attention they may. In short, even looking, sounding or behaving foolishly matters less than receiving some sort, almost any sort, of attention from others. It might be, for many of them, a terribly lonely existence.

    Contrary to socialist dogma, God did not make men equal or even terribly similar. In better times, all men knew implicitly that it was the duty of the strong to protect the person and, as well, the good name of the weak. Whence, the sacred oath of knighthood.

    It would seem most un-chivalric to consider that a true knight would mock or terrify some poor soul deficient in his normal attributes, even long before modern hormonal medical advances were developed.

    Beyond all that, there are men who cannot enter combat or perform impressive physical feats, from their childhood. They may have any number of other skills of use to society, however, and in which they may justly take pride for their accomplishments.

    Now, as to those who adopt such characteristics and behaviors as a result of homosexualism, the matter is altogether different. They may even be chaste but willful in the manner of how they present themselves. It might be an emotional or even an ideological "game" for them wherein they deliberately seek to outrage others. These, I can only suggest, deserve ostracization, full stop. If possible, making it clear that one is neither interested in their views or in social interaction with them must be accomplished or, in some cases, they may seek to raise the emotional stakes and coerce others into "accepting" them, which is impossible.

    And that is where the tension is greatest. As E. Michael Jones put it some years back, the queer is now the ideal citizen in fallen America, and Europe as well (save, thank God!, for Russia).

    Despite the propaganda, the population of homos is probably less than 2% in most countries. It might be a bit higher in the West today, as a result of immigration from more repressive, non-Western cultures. However, these creatures do not in any way constitute a sizable portion of the population, as much as some of them would like to otherwise convince everyone.

    Thus, being polite but distant, prudently avoiding settings where the risk of having to openly deal with an effeminate individual (who probably has any number of new civil procedures at his command if anyone antagonizes him) and, as others said, praying for yourself - first! - and then for his conversion may be, as far as possible, the only practical steps to take.

    My remarks are only very general but I hope helpful to you. I have had zero encounters in my lifetime with such people and am trying to pass along what seems reasonable for a Catholic to do. I've seen very few effeminate men and it was always out in a general public setting.

    I would hope good manners and being a gentleman or lady would most times carry the day even in an uncomfortable situation.

    To close, I've seen quite a number of heterosexual men who were dolts, jerks, creeps and ne'er-do-wells of other descriptions not fit to describe in mixed company. But, they too, and most fortunately, have been a minority.

    Offline poche

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #10 on: October 25, 2013, 01:01:06 AM »
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  • I think you should be circumspect in judging other people. There are some men who may appear effeminate who are married with children and anything but 'gay.' Then there are other men who are very rugged and masculine who are very attracted to other men. I say be charitable and also be prudent.
     :cool: :cool: :cool:


    Offline soulguard

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #11 on: October 26, 2013, 07:52:06 AM »
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  • Effeminate men seem to be numerous among the conciliar church and their religious orders. Some of them you would swear they were homos, but then logic kicks in, and you know that Jesus is portrayed as a feminine personality, and that modern society punishes men who act like men, because violence and assertiveness is "shocking". I don't see why people who have criminal records or who got into other trouble, or whom society drove mental, should be barred from religious life, but that is just a personal gripe. but Religion and its do no evil philosophy makes some religious men think that they are paralysed and can never get angry or fight for anything, even though true religion is the opposite. We must Fight. Our souls depend on it.
     :boxer:

    Offline Immaculata001

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #12 on: October 26, 2013, 08:38:30 AM »
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  • We had a situation with an effeminate priest at my NO parish and it was the reason I left the NO.

    Many parishioners were uncomfortable with his manner. He would talk to men and husbands in an overly familiar way and would ignore wives who would speak to him or even greet him. He was also often late or not present in church functions and wouldn't perform his duties. People went to the Bishop about his manner and other issues and the Bishop did nothing.

    Well, eventually a scandal involving him and another man made statewide news; the scandal involved drug use and impurity and he was also embezzling money from our parish building fund (we didn't have a permanent church yet).

    The put him into therapy and simply transferred him to my sister's parish in another city. The parish is poor and minority.

    We tend to laugh at external manifestations of certain vices and sins, but this was a case were it was a sign of a grievous sin. Many parishioners fled the parish, myself included... It reminds me to consider my own sins and how they are manifest and how I minimize them or presume God's mercy.



    Quote from: soulguard
    Effeminate men seem to be numerous among the conciliar church and their religious orders. Some of them you would swear they were homos, but then logic kicks in, and you know that Jesus is portrayed as a feminine personality, and that modern society punishes men who act like men, because violence and assertiveness is "shocking". I don't see why people who have criminal records or who got into other trouble, or whom society drove mental, should be barred from religious life, but that is just a personal gripe. but Religion and its do no evil philosophy makes some religious men think that they are paralysed and can never get angry or fight for anything, even though true religion is the opposite. We must Fight. Our souls depend on it.
     :boxer:
    "But 'tis strange:
    And oftentimes, to win us to our harm,
    The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
    Win us with honest trifles, to betray's
    In deepest consequence.." Banquo, from Shakespeare's Macbeth

    Offline StCeciliasGirl

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 03:46:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anthony Benedict

    And that is where the tension is greatest. As E. Michael Jones put it some years back, the queer is now the ideal citizen in fallen America, and Europe as well (save, thank God!, for Russia).

    Despite the propaganda, the population of homos is probably less than 2% in most countries.


    I think sodomy is a choice one makes, except in the case of rape of course, so I never liked those numbers. 2%, 10%, or 50%, they're certainly not "born that way". Born fallen, we all are except the necessary few in history, but I'd guess most people today don't get Baptised anymore, so they stay fallen. And then it doesn't even matter what they do: sodomy, necrophilia, bestiality, adultery, it's all bad and that society is toast.

    I know of people who practice all sorts of evil, but don't "self-identify" that way. They say they don't want to be pegged down with a label. Kids say they're not sure yet, as if they're planning to try everything on for size. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they teach that attitude in public schools. But whatever has happened, this mystery of iniquity, it has far eclipsed that 2% figure.

    The best I can say is, this All Hallow's Eve, most people in Western "civilization" would not NEED a costume to portray themselves as the living dead.  :sad:
    Legem credendi, lex statuit supplicandi

    +JMJ

    Offline Hyperdox Nick

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    How to Treat Effeminate Men?
    « Reply #14 on: October 26, 2013, 04:13:11 PM »
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  • How to treat effeminate men? As you would anyone else made in the Image and Likeness of God.

    Every one of us has their own cross to carry as we try to become like Christ. Homosexuals should see God's Goodness, Love and Mercy in each of us, and then we can in time introduce them to God's Holy Church, the hospital for all of us sinners. Shunning them reflects a Pharisaical hardness of heart incompatible with Christ and His Kingdom.

     

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