Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Zeitun on May 30, 2014, 06:32:19 AM
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This horrible metrosɛҳuąƖ and effeminate act of men hugging other men upon every meeting and hugging strangers has infected tradition. We have a elderly man who is very nice but he gives hugs to my teenage sons and it's totally gαy (the man is not gαy). I told them to not stand so close to the man when they see him and to offer their hand instead to see if we can curb this gross behavior. It's extremely embarrassing to my sons and it's unmanly to say the least.
Anyone else suffering with this?
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You must not have spent much time around Italians.
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This horrible metrosɛҳuąƖ and effeminate act of men hugging other men upon every meeting and hugging strangers has infected tradition. We have a elderly man who is very nice but he gives hugs to my teenage sons and it's totally gαy (the man is not gαy). I told them to not stand so close to the man when they see him and to offer their hand instead to see if we can curb this gross behavior. It's extremely embarrassing to my sons and it's unmanly to say the least.
Anyone else suffering with this?
Half my friends and family are Eastern Catholic or French. Not only do we hug, we kiss each other on the cheek. Among the Easterners we add "Glory to Our Lord Jesus Christ!"
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Romans 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. All the churches of Christ salute you.
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I am married to a Russian. They are forever hugging each other. And they kiss three times on one cheek then another and again back where they began.
I don't mind it. I try to suppress my inner Englishman.
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I agree with all the replies so far, but I don't think they address the problem. Isn't there a time for teaching children to let others know their personal boundaries? Is it everyone's duty to accept every hug? I think what you're doing is fine, Zeitun.
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Argentinians also kiss each other on the cheeks without having anything to do with their maleness. There are indeed cultural differences that must be acknowledged and respected.
However, it if has become an annoying issue, there is always a way to communicate your wishes without insulting: just politely tell the man not to do it. Simple.
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How to Discourage Men from Hugging Each Other
This is a problem? Who's doing this besides gαys?
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Witnessed this same situation a couple of times.
At one parish we had a homeless man who served as an usher. The head of the ministry at the time told me the priest had dismissed him because he was homeless and the man had left the parish. I brought this up with another friend of mine and got the real story. The ushers were also greaters, typically greeting people and shaking hands as people entered the Church. Well, this homeless man was hugging his kids when they came and they did not like it. So, this guy had politely and tactfully in private asked the homeless guy to please not hug his kids because they did not like it.
The next week the guy hugged his kids again and my friend took the issue to the priest.
I also had this with a brother-in-law. My sisters kids (not his kids btw) were embarrassed because my BIL was running around the Church hugging people and people were obviously put off by it but he was himself too stupid to realize it. I took him aside and told him he was embarrassing the kids and to knock it off. This because the kids had complained to me about it.
Those are your sons and it is your family- get alone with this man and tell him to stop. If he does not stop take it to the next level.
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Just to clarify: we live in the United States, are not of Mediterranean ancestry, and this is NOT a practice in my local community or our parish. I don't see others in our parish accepting hugs from this man but my sons have allowed it out of fear of offending the gentleman.
I just happened to receive a copy of "Catholic Manual of Civility" in the mail late last night and upon thumbing through it, much to my relief, there is a section in the book on banal embraces between strangers. So my question is answered.
Thanks for everyone's input.
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Witnessed this same situation a couple of times.
At one parish we had a homeless man who served as an usher. The head of the ministry at the time told me the priest had dismissed him because he was homeless and the man had left the parish. I brought this up with another friend of mine and got the real story. The ushers were also greaters, typically greeting people and shaking hands as people entered the Church. Well, this homeless man was hugging his kids when they came and they did not like it. So, this guy had politely and tactfully in private asked the homeless guy to please not hug his kids because they did not like it.
The next week the guy hugged his kids again and my friend took the issue to the priest.
I also had this with a brother-in-law. My sisters kids (not his kids btw) were embarrassed because my BIL was running around the Church hugging people and people were obviously put off by it but he was himself too stupid to realize it. I took him aside and told him he was embarrassing the kids and to knock it off. This because the kids had complained to me about it.
Those are your sons and it is your family- get alone with this man and tell him to stop. If he does not stop take it to the next level.
You left out a critical piece of information. Your experience was in the Novus Ordo.
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You left out a critical piece of information. Your experience was in the Novus Ordo.
I wonder if that has something to do with it--the man I'm referring to is somewhat ecuмenical.
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Perhaps this is already what you're reading, but this is a good article on the subject.
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/A032cpManualCivility18_Greeting.htm
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Thank you Mater. That is exactly what I read.
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How exactly has this "infected tradition" when you're apparently the only person who experienced it in this fashion?
Seems to be the definition of an anomaly.
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How exactly has this "infected tradition" when you're apparently the only person who experienced it in this fashion?
Seems to be the definition of an anomaly.
You must be one of the man-huggers.
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How exactly has this "infected tradition" when you're apparently the only person who experienced it in this fashion?
Seems to be the definition of an anomaly.
You must be one of the man-huggers.
On the contrary, I think I've hugged a single man in the last five years and that was at his wedding and I'd had a few.
I'm not against hugging in principle. I'm just withdrawn and Norse-Celt.
So how again is tradition "infected" with this?
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How exactly has this "infected tradition" when you're apparently the only person who experienced it in this fashion?
Seems to be the definition of an anomaly.
You must be one of the man-huggers.
On the contrary, I think I've hugged a single man in the last five years and that was at his wedding and I'd had a few.
I'm not against hugging in principle. I'm just withdrawn and Norse-Celt.
So how again is tradition "infected" with this?
(http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/thdos-trailer01-0361.jpg)
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This horrible metrosɛҳuąƖ and effeminate act of men hugging other men upon every meeting and hugging strangers has infected tradition. We have a elderly man who is very nice but he gives hugs to my teenage sons and it's totally gαy (the man is not gαy). I told them to not stand so close to the man when they see him and to offer their hand instead to see if we can curb this gross behavior. It's extremely embarrassing to my sons and it's unmanly to say the least.
Anyone else suffering with this?
I believe you are overeacting to what is probably a spontateous and sincere gesture from an outgoing gentleman. Is the man particularly offensive or is it just your "inner Englishman" as ggreg called it? (Of course, Russians are prone to giving bear like hugs, and good luck to them!)
Just did a search for metrosɛҳuąƖ and each of the first four definitions varied slightly from the others. They all seem to have the connotation that this is citified behaviour. Well my husband lived for years in the bush, and hates cities but is not averse to giving an occasional hug to a person to whom he feels particularly warmly, eg our sons and friends. There is nothing of what you call "gαy" about it. (I wish people would use the appropriate word).
I would certainly agree with you about the perversity of hugging strangers, but it seems to me that if you share the Faith and both you and he have just participated in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and you do that regularly and the man is, as you say, "very nice", then you are not truly strangers.
Youngsters are very easily embarrassed by the actions of older people because of their own immaturity, and maybe the gentleman is not aware that he is embarrassing your sons. I wouldn't call the action itself "unmanly". It might just be that your sons will mature and the problem will go away.
I think that your advice to put their hands forward in order to shake his hand, and so intercepting any more unwanted hugging, is a good one, and a manly response for them. But I don't think you should put ideas in their heads that are merely your cultural prejudices.
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As coming from a 30-40 yr old man, I agree that I would prefer shaking hands to "hugging" but there are differences between a business and social context. I've never "hugged" in a business context; sometimes in a social context…but why is that wrong?
The fact that this is brought up, is effeminate to me…grow up and get a hobby.
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I believe you are overeacting to what is probably a spontateous and sincere gesture from an outgoing gentleman. Is the man particularly offensive or is it just your "inner Englishman" as ggreg called it? (Of course, Russians are prone to giving bear like hugs, and good luck to them!)
She is over-reacting to a guy hugging her teenage sons and her sons don't like it ?
Personally, I think the man is pathetic.
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Hugs are done, and expected after a hockey goal.
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I do not like hugging anybody outside my own parents, husband and kids. I find it cringy and intrusive. Something has happened in the last number of years where a fad has developed and my friends and extended family when I meet them or leave them do the hug. Two of my bil are Italian and they kiss on both cheeks which I am comfortable with because theirs and your arms are not wrapped around you which I find to close for comfort.
If I spontaneous hug for some reason like good news or comfort hug for sad news it is completely genuine whereas the greeting hug I find fake. I am a very warm person and very friendly so its not a sign of coldness when you don't want your personal space invaded by people.
Also man hugging man makes me cringe inwardly.
Guess I am just not so cultured :)
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I don't see anything in the Manual on Civility on how to avoid an unwanted hug. Would people here agree that seeing it coming and keeping some distance and offering our hand instead is civil? I think so.
Against very persistent people, who will back you up against a wall, you might be able to turn your body sideways.
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I don't see anything in the Manual on Civility on how to avoid an unwanted hug. Would people here agree that seeing it coming and keeping some distance and offering our hand instead is civil? I think so.
Against very persistent people, who will back you up against a wall, you might be able to turn your body sideways.
Yes, I think so too. They have every right to set boundaries for their family, especially if their boys are made uncomfortable by it.
My only concern would be perhaps to change the tone regarding hugs. The boys should not be taught that this is necessarily gαy or effeminate (although it certainly can be, depending on the context and the type of hug).
Sometimes here in America we take on a John Wayne style stoicism that isn't healthy either yet that's what is touted as "manly". But imo that backfires and contributes to men being disconnected from the people around them.
Boundaries vs not being stoics or individualists, it's a tough line to keep sometimes.
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The op said:
"This horrible metrosɛҳuąƖ and effeminate act of men hugging other men upon every meeting and hugging strangers has infected tradition."
The OP confuses the issue by adding "hugging strangers." These are two totally different situations. Hugging strangers is well, strange.
Hugging a friend, whether male or female, is just a hug. I sincerely wonder about the emotional well-being of someone who thinks of a simple hug after Mass as "horrible . . . metro-sɛҳuąƖ ....and effeminate." According to Holy Scripture, Romans 16:16: Douay-Rheims translation:
"Salute one another with an holy kiss. All the churches of Christ salute you."
So if a simple hug sends some people over the edge, what do they think of the holy kiss?
Hugs and kisses,
Cera
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Good news everyone--the gentleman in question must have read this thread because he didn't come near my children when we saw him today.
:applause:
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:dancing-banana:I
I have no problem with men hugging or such if it is a normal social greeting between friends in a shared culture. I do think it common courtesy to refrain from greeting strangers or their children in like manner when you see that they do not share your culture or that it has made others uncomfortable. Unfortunately, not all, men especially, are able to pick up on social cues. The best thing to do is to kindly but firmly inform the person of your discomfort and instruct him as to how he should greet you or your children. Demonstrate if necessary. If he is charitably inclined, as he should be, if a fellow Catholic, he will comply with your request. The only time I'd go to priest is if the unwanted mode of greeting continues after you have made very clear your discomfort, or, of course, if you suspect impure motives. In the latter case, I would hope the husband or father would take the creep outside for an "attitude adjustment."
Another suggestion, if you know a person does NOT have evil intent, and you're merely uncomfortable with his culture's manner of greeting, why not endure the disliked greeting as a matter of charity for a fellow Catholic? Train your children to do the same. I was raised in a home where all manner of outward affection or even strong emotional expression was strictly taboo. But I grew up in an international setting among persons of many cultures. I now live and work in a place where this is even more the case, and have learned to adjust myself accordingly for charity's sake. I bow to parents of Asian students, shake hands with others, and yes, even accept hugs and kisses on the cheek from the parents of my Russian student. Do as St. Paul when he became "all things to all men" for the Gospel's sake.
Not every set of hugging men are gαy metrosɛҳuąƖs. Usually, it is quite obvious when this is the case by their clothing, hairstyle, Jєωellery, and conversation. I think it highly unlikely those of this persuasion would go to a traditional Catholic Mass.
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Argentinians also kiss each other on the cheeks without having anything to do with their maleness.
Chileans, too. Also, some eastern European cultures practice this greeting.
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Argentinians also kiss each other on the cheeks without having anything to do with their maleness.
Chileans, too. Also, some eastern European cultures practice this greeting.
So what ?
The person we are talking about is none of the above is he ?
If a Chilean came here he would learn to keep his mouth off of people real quick.
The OP and her family wanted to go to Church to worship God, not to get creeped out by some middle age man who should know better.
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(http://cdn.hifipanda.com/519c5173f046916799.jpg)
(http://jordanmonge.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/bros3.jpg?w=440)
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/f8/a3/9a/f8a39a9433806c890f91acc95bb56634.jpg)
(http://www.brainpickings.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/dearfriends5.jpg)
These would probably be considered fαɢɢօty pictures now, but they weren't then. Men today are so obsessed with NOT looking fαɢɢօty, that men don't know how to just BE A NORMAL MAN.
A man wants people to know how manly he is by watching what he does, but he doesn't even know how to act manly anymore (I'm not talking about most people here, I'm talking about men in general nowdays) because there's this artificial construct that's been made that says, "Men who show emotions must be fαɢɢօts."
You can show your emotions without looking fαɢɢօty, and the people who think it's fαɢɢօty to give a hug, or to cry when some tragedy happens, DOES NOT REDUCE YOUR MANHOOD. It makes you a human being capable of strong, raw feelings.
I have a relative that keeps all his emotions inside, and he's aged way past his years because of it. I witnessed a "Pandora's box" once, when he confided in me (to be clear, he was not directing anger at me or anything, but more of a release of wound up thoughts and feelings, and confusion and heartache), and the men that do this to themselves suffer so much internally, it would feel better to sustain a gaping wound than restrain emotions for that long. I was glad I could be there for him. I just wish he wouldn't hold it in as much as he does. He would be a more peaceful person for it, and most likely, a better man.
My opinion/advice to the men from a lowly woman: Do not let society's obsession with sex dictate your manliness. You know how manly you are. You know you're not fαɢɢօty. Quit worrying about what everyone else thinks about you and be yourself.
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Men today are so obsessed with NOT looking fαɢɢօty...
Probably because it's a real problem these days.
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I guess some people here are having a difficult time understanding something.
We are not talking about family pictures, men in combat, a father hugging his son, or someone from a different culture are we ?
We are talking about a family with two teenagers being hugged by a near stranger they go to Church with and they do not like it and the near stranger cannot get a clue.
If the man in question did read this thread, he very much had it coming, think of how those kids felt.
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Just to clarify: we live in the United States, are not of Mediterranean ancestry, and this is NOT a practice in my local community or our parish. I don't see others in our parish accepting hugs from this man but my sons have allowed it out of fear of offending the gentleman.
I just happened to receive a copy of "Catholic Manual of Civility" in the mail late last night and upon thumbing through it, much to my relief, there is a section in the book on banal embraces between strangers. So my question is answered.
Thanks for everyone's input.
If you don't mind my asking, where are you from and from what ethnicity ? I was surprised at the absolute tone of your post. Is the opposition to men giving hugs to one another a Southern US thing ?
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Argentinians also kiss each other on the cheeks without having anything to do with their maleness.
Chileans, too. Also, some eastern European cultures practice this greeting.
So what ?
The person we are talking about is none of the above is he ?
If a Chilean came here he would learn to keep his mouth off of people real quick.
The OP and her family wanted to go to Church to worship God, not to get creeped out by some middle age man who should know better.
You, too : where are you from and what culture or ethnicity do you represent ? I don't understand why you are so adamant about this issue. I am not familiar with your culture.
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I do not know why everybody is so adamant that the op should not be squeamish about this. The op is uncomfortable with casual acquaintances hugging her sons and I would be too.
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I do not know why everybody is so adamant that the op should not be squeamish about this. The op is uncomfortable with casual acquaintances hugging her sons and I would be too.
That's not all that the OP said. She also said that it's perverted for men to hug one another as a way of greeting, and that with some fairly strong language.
OP and crossbro, could either of you please explain what region of North America you come from ? I am trying to understand your positions, respectively.
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This horrible metrosɛҳuąƖ and effeminate act of men hugging other men upon every meeting and hugging strangers has infected tradition. We have a elderly man who is very nice but he gives hugs to my teenage sons and it's totally gαy (the man is not gαy). I told them to not stand so close to the man when they see him and to offer their hand instead to see if we can curb this gross behavior. It's extremely embarrassing to my sons and it's unmanly to say the least.
Anyone else suffering with this?
PereJoseph said:
OP and crossbro, could either of you please explain what region of North America you come from ? I am trying to understand your positions, respectively.
Regions of North America meaning little to me, I'd be more interested in what are their respective cultural heritages. Thank you.
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Interesting article
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/01/straight-men-cuddle-guys-study_n_5241953.html
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Interesting article
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/01/straight-men-cuddle-guys-study_n_5241953.html
I find what that article says to be very strange and concerning, but I don't see how it's related to men greeting one another with a hug if this is the traditional custom in many Catholic cultures. By the way, you never answered either Nadir or myself regarding what cultural background you call your own. I know you are from the US, but you could be more specific. What ethnicity are you (Scotch-Irish, English) ? Are most of the people from your area of the same ethnicity ? I am curious.
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She's not going to answer your questions.
You'd think people who put their foot so far into their mouth would be eager to offer clarifications. Maybe that's another regional or cultural thing? Being content with stupid remarks and enjoying the confusion that follows them, rather than clarifying what you meant.
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Maybe she is simply not interested in irrelevant cultural ethnical garbage having nothing to do with the fact her kids are creeped out by mr stranger danger invading their space with his body physically.
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In my life, hugging (men and men and men and women) is done between family members and close friends. I realize that avoidance of physical contact and exaggeration of personal space are peculiar traits of WASP culture, but I would be disconcerted as well if I were in the situation Zeitun describes, of an almost unknown man wanting to hug me or my children in greeting. Would that really be considered perfectly normal in some cultures? I have traveled a fair amount and never seen anything quite like that. I would probably advise them to try for a handshake instead.
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Maybe she is simply not interested in irrelevant cultural ethnical garbage having nothing to do with the fact her kids are creeped out by mr stranger danger invading their space with his body physically.
I don't care about the stranger. As far as I'm concerned that's an irrelevant side issue. I agree that I would not want strangers giving me or people close to me hugs, especially children. And I am sure that Graham's assessment is most likely correct that this is the instinct of most cultures worldwide. But that's neither here nor there.
I am more interested in Zeitun's expressed intense disgust with any men hugging each other, close friends or no, and her assertion that men simply don't hug men in her community. You, crossbro, likewise said that a Chilean who kisses on the cheek would learn "real quick" not to put his "mouth" on people (or something like that) if he came to the US. I find these attitudes to be stronger than any I would have expected in people with whom I have spent much time, so I was wondering if they were regional or ethnic, maybe a Southern, WASP, or German thing. I don't see why my asking simple questions has to be made so difficult.
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Maybe she is simply not interested in irrelevant cultural ethnical garbage having nothing to do with the fact her kids are creeped out by mr stranger danger invading their space with his body physically.
There's more to it. If there weren't, she would have simply said: there's a strange man making us uncomfortable with unwanted hugs, what should we do? Instead she made a case out of hugs/physical contact being objectively "gαy" and effeminate, to the point of now posting an article about men cuddling in bed, which is not what people here are talking about and only serves to needle other posters unnecessarily.
I don't have a problem with them being uncomfortable with this man's hugs, I have a problem with the mentality that is being displayed while explaining the situation. I think that's the general problem, not this one circuмstance.
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Maybe she is simply not interested in irrelevant cultural ethnical garbage having nothing to do with the fact her kids are creeped out by mr stranger danger invading their space with his body physically.
Remarkable that you can have a post on nearly every page of this thread and still not figure out that no one is arguing the merits of strange and older men hugging strangers.
The OP made an equal claim of "horrible, metrosɛҳuąƖ and effeminate" toward men hugging "every time they meet." She has made no effort to clarify that she meant something else, and is content to offer Pablo-esque crypticisms in place of an actual explanation, defense or retraction/withdrawal.
I'm still wondering just exactly how either instance (whether total strangers hugging each other or the vastly and dramatically different case of friends or acquaintances hugging each other) has "infected" Tradition. I think the OP may be suffering from a little case of "center of the worldism."
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Maybe she is simply not interested in irrelevant cultural ethnical garbage having nothing to do with the fact her kids are creeped out by mr stranger danger invading their space with his body physically.
There's more to it. If there weren't, she would have simply said: there's a strange man making us uncomfortable with unwanted hugs, what should we do? Instead she made a case out of hugs/physical contact being objectively "gαy" and effeminate, to the point of now posting an article about men cuddling in bed, which is not what people here are talking about and only serves to needle other posters unnecessarily.
I don't have a problem with them being uncomfortable with this man's hugs, I have a problem with the mentality that is being displayed while explaining the situation. I think that's the general problem, not this one circuмstance.
I'm sorry, wallflower. I accidentally gave your post a down-thumb. Your explanation of what is the real issue being contended is excellent. I am becoming increasingly frustrated that it isn't obvious to everybody, because it seems painfully obvious to me. Crossbro, it seems that it would help the peace of the forum if you and Zeitun just answered the questions.
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Since many good and serious points have already been discussed I will propose an alternative. You could wrap yourself in fly paper. This will also take care of any fly issues that you may encounter, and might also reveal that the man hugging you is not a man at all!
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How about you creeps learn to respect the space of others ?
Despite the garbage being speweld here, the OP is not the one running around hugging people like a creep.
You are the same kind of freaks who run around hotel hallways in their undies and get offended when people complain.
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How about you creeps learn to respect the space of others ?
Despite the garbage being speweld here, the OP is not the one running around hugging people like a creep.
You are the same kind of freaks who run around hotel hallways in their undies and get offended when people complain.
I've been accused of a lot, but never of being "a kind of freak who [runs] around hotel hallways in [my] undies."
This thread has taken an unfortunate turn, though I find it amusing. What does one do having witnessed undie running in hotel hallways? Besides complain, of course.
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Maybe she is simply not interested in irrelevant cultural ethnical garbage having nothing to do with the fact her kids are creeped out by mr stranger danger invading their space with his body physically.
There's more to it. If there weren't, she would have simply said: there's a strange man making us uncomfortable with unwanted hugs, what should we do? Instead she made a case out of hugs/physical contact being objectively "gαy" and effeminate, to the point of now posting an article about men cuddling in bed, which is not what people here are talking about and only serves to needle other posters unnecessarily.
I don't have a problem with them being uncomfortable with this man's hugs, I have a problem with the mentality that is being displayed while explaining the situation. I think that's the general problem, not this one circuмstance.
I'm sorry, wallflower. I accidentally gave your post a down-thumb. Your explanation of what is the real issue being contended is excellent. I am becoming increasingly frustrated that it isn't obvious to everybody, because it seems painfully obvious to me. Crossbro, it seems that it would help the peace of the forum if you and Zeitun just answered the questions.
That's ok! It makes up for those I have deserved along the way and didn't get. :)
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What does one do having witnessed undie running in hotel hallways? Besides complain, of course.
You stick your leg out suddenly so they trip, or you go to the ice machine for ice bombardment. (they are most likely headed to the ice)
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What does one do having witnessed undie running in hotel hallways? Besides complain, of course.
You stick your leg out suddenly so they trip, or you go to the ice machine for ice bombardment. (they are most likely headed to the ice)
:laugh1:
I have yet to see these people. Crossbro must stay at interesting places.
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What does one do having witnessed undie running in hotel hallways? Besides complain, of course.
You stick your leg out suddenly so they trip, or you go to the ice machine for ice bombardment. (they are most likely headed to the ice)
Does one's reaction to undie-runners in hotel hallways depend in part on their cultural background and regional custom?
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Some people use the term faggy or gαy when what they literally mean is something like fey. I've done this myself, and I don't apologize for it.
When it comes to this, I think where we happen to live is quite irrelevant, considering what a mobile culture we are living in. But since some are interested in that topic, maybe they could start a poll or a new thread, since the OP seems to consider this thread resolved.
Let's try to outdo one another in charity, not in continentalism.
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What does one do having witnessed undie running in hotel hallways? Besides complain, of course.
You stick your leg out suddenly so they trip, or you go to the ice machine for ice bombardment. (they are most likely headed to the ice)
Does one's reaction to undie-runners in hotel hallways depend in part on their cultural background and regional custom?
I think it offends people who didn't graduate from Ivy League colleges the most.
Let's face it: Does a Yale man care if we see him in his undies?
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This thread has taken an unfortunate turn,
I reckon it's getting better. Haven't had such a good laugh for a long time. Very therapeutic.
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How about you creeps learn to respect the space of others ?
It's not clear why you're becoming so upset over this issue, but I feel compelled to point out that it seems to be a disproportionate response to the posts addressed to you.
And, as far as I can tell, the obsession with one's "space" is a WASP thing. Even then, I have encountered people who are uncomfortable with hugging but greet one another with kisses on the cheek. French people from France are often like that.
Yet, you seem to be opposed to both hugging and to kissing on the cheek. I can understand if one was raised in an environment where one only shakes hands. I suppose Mohammedan cultures might be that way, but what I can't understand is why you and Zeitun seem to have a visceral reaction at the thought of somebody kissing you on the cheek or giving you a hug.
What makes this thread even more bizarre is that everybody in it acknowledges that hugging strangers is undesirable. Yet, when we ask why you are opposed to the idea of male relatives or male friends hugging one another as a greeting -- or even a Chilean in the US greeting people in the way to which he is accustomed -- both you and Zeitun react defensively and snarl back some weird -- even though unintentionally very funny -- answers ("you must be a man-hugger," "you're like somebody who runs around hotel hallways in his underwear," "'Merica," etc.).
How about just saying something along the lines of, "I was raised with the understanding that grown men shake hands and never hug, even if they are close friends or relatives. Perhaps this is because my parents were both only third-generation immigrants in a place and culture historically shaped by Protestants. Their first-generation immigrant grandparents did not benefit from an ethnic enclave and therefore tried very hard to have their families be accepted by the locals. Furthermore, my father was in the military, and my mother came from a military family as well. This would explain their absolute adherence to the surrounding culture's customs, specifically from X time period, an observance that was passed on to me. I understand that this is different than the typical Catholic experience, whether in the United States or anywhere else in the world, but I try to understand more how this might affect me."
I'm not sure how close I was to the mark, but at least some explanation for your very strong beliefs on this subject would be appreciated. Obviously, I don't know you, so I was merely trying to come up with a plausible explanation. If I was completely wrong in my admittedly completely fabricated hypothetical explanation, set me straight. If you won't give any answer, why not ? I just don't get it. If most other Catholics think that your opinion is different than what they would expect from a Catholic, it seems an uncharitable response on your part to accuse them of being perverts or of being deranged simply for disagreeing with you in the first place and trying to understand your position's origin.
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Pere Joseph's continued erudition in this thread indicate to me that he has either been drinking too much, or not enough.
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Pere Joseph's continued erudition in this thread indicate to me that he has either been drinking too much, or not enough.
I think you're right. Some alcohol and a nap should fix it.
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Pere Joseph's continued erudition in this thread indicate to me that he has either been drinking too much, or not enough.
I think you're right. Some alcohol and a nap should fix it.
:laugh1:
The other hot topic!
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I'm sorry that I haven't continued to post on the thread. The issue was resolved for my family so I didn't see the need to continue.
Let me clarify--I grew up in California where hugging has replaced handshakes BETWEEN STRANGERS. My husband has complained frequently about the social pressure men are under to go along with this. Even in the workplace one might see male co-workers hugging. I left California to get away from that sick culture and I'm upset that I'm finding it in my new place even among Catholics.
The situation I presented in the OP was lacking details that I realize now might have changed how others interpretted it. I was in a hurry when I wrote the post. The incident that spawned the thread was an evening where an elderly man sought out and hugged my son against his will THREE TIMES. In less than 2 hours. It happened in my own home when my husband was not here and my son and myself were very very upset. This man is NOT family--we barely know him. I have nothing against male family or even friends hugging. That is NOT what this thread is about.
Again, I apologize for not providing enough details in the OP. I don't come from a culture where touching is sinful nor do I teach that to my children. I'm not angry at the hugging man or anyone who has disagreed with me on the issue. :sign-surrender:
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Just wondering, why was a man who you describe as not family and barely knowing, in your home in the evening while your husband not home?
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Just wondering, why was a man who you describe as not family and barely knowing, in your home in the evening while your husband not home?
He was picking up his wife who had come over to pray with us.
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Perhaps the best thing to do is to just be up front to him. Give him a call on the phone, and say, "Hello Mr. ____, do you have a moment to chat?" And then after exchanging pleasantries, just say, "It was so nice to have your wife come and visit the other day. There was something I wanted to bring up, though. My son is not comfortable with exchanging hugs with people he doesn't know. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, or anything. It's just the way he is." Or something to that effect.
It's so sad that everyone has to walk on eggshells when sometimes, just coming out and saying it is so easy, after you look back on it, you wonder what you were even worried about in the first place.
Just my two cents anyway.
Take with a grain of salt.
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I am going to throw a wobbler here but
'elderly man sought out and hugged my son against his will THREE TIMES. In less than 2 hours'
HE IS A PERVERT....there is something very odd about his behaviour.
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Ah! but she also said, "The issue was resolved for my family".
It seemed to me that this man was hugging her boys at the church, and she eventually corrected that impression. What she is talking about is men hugging men, in general. And this affectionate (or is it perverted?) gentleman is just one example among many.
Nobody here agrees with strangers hugging each other. The title of this thread is "How to Discourage Men from Hugging Each Other". Personally I find that very strange. If any man has a problem I believe he will pretty soon sort it out. :boxer:
Parents suggestion is a good one.
Anyway I'm glad that's sorted. Phew!
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This horrible metrosɛҳuąƖ and effeminate act of men hugging other men upon every meeting and hugging strangers has infected tradition. We have a elderly man who is very nice but he gives hugs to my teenage sons and it's totally gαy (the man is not gαy). I told them to not stand so close to the man when they see him and to offer their hand instead to see if we can curb this gross behavior. It's extremely embarrassing to my sons and it's unmanly to say the least.
Anyone else suffering with this?
I agree with Zeitun. Unless it is a special occasion, shake hands instead, if you really have to. PLEASE.
:gandalf: