Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: TheJovialInquisitor on May 05, 2018, 12:47:40 AM
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I'm currently having trouble with this. I live in America, and naturally, every workplace I have a job at is chock-full of people who are not only nonbelievers, but actively revel in promiscuity, drugs (mostly weed), petty theft, ect. I know I'm supposed to behave cordially with them, but I feel like if I get too "chummy" with them it will not only further legitimize their life-styles in their eyes, but will also be an affront to justice to treat an unrepentant sinner as you would treat a penitent. How are you to act, typically, in everyday interactions with these people?
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I try to keep in mind the sayings of Jesus, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
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I'm currently having trouble with this. I live in America, and naturally, every workplace I have a job at is chock-full of people who are not only nonbelievers, but actively revel in promiscuity, drugs (mostly weed), petty theft, ect. I know I'm supposed to behave cordially with them, but I feel like if I get too "chummy" with them it will not only further legitimize their life-styles in their eyes, but will also be an affront to justice to treat an unrepentant sinner as you would treat a penitent. How are you to act, typically, in everyday interactions with these people?
Welcome! You sound quite young, and have probably not acquired the ability of walking the fine line between "behaving cordially" and "getting too "chummy" with them".
The first step is to daily pray for these people. Then treat them with reserved politeness, remembering that many of them have never been given the same chance to learn virtue as you most probably have. Don't be concerned about making friends in such an environment and remember why you are in that environment: to earn a living by doing your work to the best of your ability.
It is not your place to judge their behaviour, just pray and be a good example. Being polite is not to legitimise their behaviour. Your different behaviour will be noticed by them and may make them feel uncomfortable and may cause the to keep their distance or even resent or ridicule you, but don't be deterred by that. It may bear good fruit
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Sounds like you work in a call center :)
But Nadir's right, especially about setting an example. Don't laugh at their crimes, don't revel in their indecency. That doesn't mean you need to scowl at them. Those are just some basic, interpersonal tactics for avoiding giving an impression of approval. And to really do some good, lead by example as much as you can, and yes, pray for them.
As someone who's worked in similar environments, I'd also add: get out! As soon as you're able, of course.
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Just do your job and stay away from conversations that can lead to more. Bad company, they are. Prays are strong for them. My husband got into conversing with people in the hospital. Of all places you would think they would all be busy! It brought him to mortal sin. So, stay away from conversation, stick to job and go home.
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Sounds like you work in a call center :)
But Nadir's right, especially about setting an example. Don't laugh at their crimes, don't revel in their indecency. That doesn't mean you need to scowl at them. Those are just some basic, interpersonal tactics for avoiding giving an impression of approval. And to really do some good, lead by example as much as you can, and yes, pray for them.
As someone who's worked in similar environments, I'd also add: get out! As soon as you're able, of course.
With my generation, it's hard to "get out", because they all act like this to some degree. I have yet to meet a single person my age that doesn't openly revel in porn, or going to strip clubs, or "smoking that weed, dude!", ect. Even many of the older guys do it too.
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With my generation, it's hard to "get out", because they all act like this to some degree. I have yet to meet a single person my age that doesn't openly revel in porn, or going to strip clubs, or "smoking that weed, dude!", ect. Even many of the older guys do it too.
It's nothing new, been the same since the 1960's. The sɛҳuąƖ promiscuity was worse than today in the late sixties and 70's, nobody young needed to go to a strip clubs.
Nadir's advice is perfect. The only thing I will add, is that when they talk about drugs and porno, you can make a joke of it, like dismissing it as idiotic. They will not understand the religious aspects, so speak to them from uncommon wisdom of the world, while making a laughing matter out of the whole affair:
Weed - "I do not have the time to confuse my mind and get knocked out by weed, I don't even waste my time watching television or playing video games or texting all day. I have studying to do and things to learn to make a good living. This is the time to get ahead, while I am young, all the older weed heads I see are all poor bums."
Porn - "I do not understand why a young healthy man would want to watch porn, what's it good for? It just gets you frustrated. I'll use my time to improve myself and learn about what life is all about and how women behave, so I can have a good wife for life, rather than an illusion in strip clubs and video."
sɛҳuąƖ promiscuity - "Any girl that is easy, is easy with everybody, so don't think that you are something special. Promiscuity means herpes for life or worse. No, I seek the girls that no one can approach."
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With my generation, it's hard to "get out", because they all act like this to some degree. I have yet to meet a single person my age that doesn't openly revel in porn, or going to strip clubs, or "smoking that weed, dude!", ect. Even many of the older guys do it too.
I notice that in certain industries and locations do have a determination on the level or degree of vulgarity. For example, you will hear more bad language working at the inner-city construction site than you would at the inner city dentist or insurance office. So maybe you can try to find an industry or location where the people are typically more civil and polite.
Also, ask other Catholic men, where do they work and how is the work environment, if it is good, then ask if there are any job openings.
And if all else fails, move to Saint Mary's Kansas and work at Onyx, at least the environment is very good, and you get good pay and health insurance.
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Just do your job and stay away from conversations that can lead to more. Bad company, they are. Prays are strong for them. My husband got into conversing with people in the hospital. Of all places you would think they would all be busy! It brought him to mortal sin. So, stay away from conversation, stick to job and go home.
What is your age?
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Me? I'm 22.
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From the Fathers of the Desert;
The same lawgiver who said, "Thou shalt not fornicate." also said, "Thou shalt not judge."
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From the Fathers of the Desert;
The same lawgiver who said, "Thou shalt not fornicate." also said, "Thou shalt not judge."
I'm not sure which "Father of the Desert" you're talking about, but I believe the doctrine is to judge justly, not refrain from judging at all.
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From the Fathers of the Desert;
The same lawgiver who said, "Thou shalt not fornicate." also said, "Thou shalt not judge."
The "not judge" commandment is terribly misunderstood and abused nowadays.
Most people rather take sides with the one in the left here, instead of Jesus Christ:
(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21687478_471500326554633_398750420236211064_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a8fbc895e2c26e9a4f0b7faa6a3f5240&oe=5B946D4B)
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We are not to "judge" people, only God is allowed to do that. But, we are allowed to use discretion about how we interact with individuals based on their actions and whether we believe them likely to damage our faith or our body. It's difficult to be on friendly terms with co-workers who are obviously reveling in various sinful behaviors without seeming to condone their sins. And, if they sense you disapprove, then you're branded a snooty prude or religious-fanatic-weirdo.
It's kind of a no-win situation. You can park your workstation on the driest edge of the mud-hole, but you're still inside the pigpen. Stay there too long and you might find yourself sprouting a curly tail of your own. You're young, it would be worthwhile to get whatever training you need to work for yourself - or in a more upscale environment where those types at least keep it to themselves for the most part.
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You're young, it would be worthwhile to get whatever training you need to work for yourself - or in a more upscale environment where those types at least keep it to themselves for the most part.
I'm working on it. That's not going to start for at least a couple of months though.
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I'm not sure which "Father of the Desert" you're talking about, but I believe the doctrine is to judge justly, not refrain from judging at all.
We can discuss the goodness and evil of objective behavior but only God sees into the inner dispositions of the heart.
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We can discuss the goodness and evil of objective behavior but only God sees into the inner dispositions of the heart.
You don't need to see into the inner dispositions of the heart to judge their outward actions as sinful.
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The "not judge" commandment is terribly misunderstood and abused nowadays.
Most people rather take sides with the one in the left here, instead of Jesus Christ:
(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21687478_471500326554633_398750420236211064_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a8fbc895e2c26e9a4f0b7faa6a3f5240&oe=5B946D4B)
Thanks! That's a great image.
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I'm currently having trouble with this. I live in America, and naturally, every workplace I have a job at is chock-full of people who are not only nonbelievers, but actively revel in promiscuity, drugs (mostly weed), petty theft, ect. I know I'm supposed to behave cordially with them, but I feel like if I get too "chummy" with them it will not only further legitimize their life-styles in their eyes, but will also be an affront to justice to treat an unrepentant sinner as you would treat a penitent. How are you to act, typically, in everyday interactions with these people?
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This is a great question!
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Most workplaces in America, it seems, have this problem.
Some are full of evangelical Protestants, others with Mormons or 7th Day Adventists or whatever.
Some are full of atheists, some are full of satanists, and I kid you not.
But in most cases, you have a whole lot of simply WORLDLY people, in your case, they smoke dope, drink alcohol, watch sports.
The petty theft part is another story, but I don't know what to say about that.
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There is a recent article in the latest Fatima Crusader (not yet online) that applies here:
It's by Monsignor Perez, and it's titled: Be A Duck.
I think you would really appreciate it. I highly recommend it.
If I can find my copy, I'll post some excerpts. It's something like 15 pages long.
It ends with 15 meditations for the Rosary centered on the theme of the article, which is don't be afraid to show your Catholicity.
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I have personal experience with this problem from years ago when my workplace was getting me down, when every day I woke up in the morning dreading the day when I would have to face non-stop occasions of sin at work. All the men cajoled with each other in prurient jokes, salacious news stories, and personal anecdotes of sɛҳuąƖ impropriety. It was really depressing. I had utterly nothing to say to them, nor did I laugh at their filthy jokes, so they started to EXPLAIN the jokes to me presuming that if I didn't laugh at them it MUST be because I didn't GET it. Even the superintendent of that particular project was caught up in the dirty joke habit.
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So I embarked on a program to collect and tell clean jokes.
This took a lot of effort. I had to search far and wide for clean jokes.
But I got some together, and tried to tell them in similar situations.
If someone at work was carrying on with a dirty joke about someone in a bar, I would tell a clean joke about someone in a bar.
How do you find a clean joke about someone in a bar, you ask?
One goes like this.
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A panda walks into a bar and orders some food. The bartender brings the food from the kitchen, and the panda eats it.
When he's finished eating, he gets up and shoots his Colt .45 into the ceiling.
The bartender comes over and yells at him, "Hey, you can't do that!"
Another customer sitting at the bar says, "Who do you think you are?"
The panda replies, "I'm a panda. Look it up." Then the panda walks out the door.
So the customer asks the bartender, "Do you have a dictionary?"
The bartender reaches under the bar and gets one out.
They look up "panda" and find the following definition:
.
panda n. a bear native to China; eats, shoots and leaves.
.
If the joke needs any explanation you can say that this is what can happen with a misplaced comma in the dictionary.
(You say, "eats, comma, shoots and leaves.")
.
Long story short, after a few weeks of this, the other men started to laugh at my clean jokes.
I had to keep upbeat and cheerful the whole time. I had to make myself scarce whenever dirty jokes were told, and I had to enter a scene prepared to tell my clean joke quickly, and like the panda, make a hasty retreat. I had to be pleasant, yet persistent, and not leave any room for ridicule -- if they wanted to complain about me, they'd have to do it behind my back, and that tends to get old.
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One day a particular man was trying to be disrespectful toward me and I consistently made light of it. As I was leaving the room he asked me, "Hey Neil, where did you get your sense of humor?" I replied to his face as I walked by him out the door, "Why, do you want to get one too?" He had absolutely no come-back to that, it caught him 100% off guard.
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Like I said it took a few weeks, but one day, quite to my surprise, when I had arrived early in the morning, the superintendent was there and no one else. He told me, "You know, Neil, I'd like to thank you because you've shown me that a joke doesn't have to be dirty in order to be funny."
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I was amazed to realize that a grown man would have to be given this lesson, or else he wouldn't have otherwise known it to be true.
.
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This is a great question!
.
Most workplaces in America, it seems, have this problem.
Some are full of evangelical Protestants, others with Mormons or 7th Day Adventists or whatever.
Some are full of atheists, some are full of satanists, and I kid you not.
But in most cases, you have a whole lot of simply WORLDLY people, in your case, they smoke dope, drink alcohol, watch sports.
The petty theft part is another story, but I don't know what to say about that.
.
There is a recent article in the latest Fatima Crusader (not yet online) that applies here:
It's by Monsignor Perez, and it's titled: Be A Duck.
I think you would really appreciate it. I highly recommend it.
If I can find my copy, I'll post some excerpts. It's something like 15 pages long.
It ends with 15 meditations for the Rosary centered on the theme of the article, which is don't be afraid to show your Catholicity.
.
I have personal experience with this problem from years ago when my workplace was getting me down, when every day I woke up in the morning dreading the day when I would have to face non-stop occasions of sin at work. All the men cajoled with each other in prurient jokes, salacious news stories, and personal anecdotes of sɛҳuąƖ impropriety. It was really depressing. I had utterly nothing to say to them, nor did I laugh at their filthy jokes, so they started to EXPLAIN the jokes to me presuming that if I didn't laugh at them it MUST be because I didn't GET it. Even the superintendent of that particular project was caught up in the dirty joke habit.
.
So I embarked on a program to collect and tell clean jokes.
This took a lot of effort. I had to search far and wide for clean jokes.
But I got some together, and tried to tell them in similar situations.
If someone at work was carrying on with a dirty joke about someone in a bar, I would tell a clean joke about someone in a bar.
How do you find a clean joke about someone in a bar, you ask?
One goes like this.
.
A panda walks into a bar and orders some food. The bartender brings the food from the kitchen, and the panda eats it.
When he's finished eating, he gets up and shoots his Colt .45 into the ceiling.
The bartender comes over and yells at him, "Hey, you can't do that!"
Another customer sitting at the bar says, "Who do you think you are?"
The panda replies, "I'm a panda. Look it up." Then the panda walks out the door.
So the customer asks the bartender, "Do you have a dictionary?"
The bartender reaches under the bar and gets one out.
They look up "panda" and find the following definition:
.
panda n. a bear native to China; eats, shoots and leaves.
.
If the joke needs any explanation you can say that this is what can happen with a misplaced comma in the dictionary.
(You say, "eats, comma, shoots and leaves.")
.
Long story short, after a few weeks of this, the other men started to laugh at my clean jokes.
I had to keep upbeat and cheerful the whole time. I had to make myself scarce whenever dirty jokes were told, and I had to enter a scene prepared to tell my clean joke quickly, and like the panda, make a hasty retreat. I had to be pleasant, yet persistent, and not leave any room for ridicule -- if they wanted to complain about me, they'd have to do it behind my back, and that tends to get old.
.
One day a particular man was trying to be disrespectful toward me and I consistently made light of it. As I was leaving the room he asked me, "Hey Neil, where did you get your sense of humor?" I replied to his face as I walked by him out the door, "Why, do you want to get one too?" He had absolutely no come-back to that, it caught him 100% off guard.
.
Like I said it took a few weeks, but one day, quite to my surprise, when I had arrived early in the morning, the superintendent was there and no one else. He told me, "You know, Neil, I'd like to thank you because you've shown me that a joke doesn't have to be dirty in order to be funny."
.
I was amazed to realize that a grown man would have to be given this lesson, or else he wouldn't have otherwise known it to be true.
.
Maybe you should focus on being a good example. Who knows, your good works and your prayers could be what brings these people to God.