Author Topic: How do I know who is right? About converting  (Read 987 times)

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Offline Maciej11

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How do I know who is right? About converting
« on: February 25, 2014, 05:35:33 PM »
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  • Hello Everyone,
    I was slowly rediscovering Christianity during last few years and I’ve decided to make a really informed and intellectually satisfying choice about a Church to join. After months of reading official documents, apologetic and theological books, and finally of hundreds of forum discussions and flame wars, my only reflection is that the choice of a denomination is essentially epistemological. I tried to build some sort of meta-argumentation which might help in my quest for faith and I failed. I am wondering whether anyone might help me to find any flaw in it. Here is my reasoning:
    1.The Bible was written in a precise historical context and its final form was sanctioned by specific authorities in well defined circumstances. Even though I recognize the essential role of the Scripture, there is no doubt it is a part of the Holy Tradition. I need the Holy Tradition not only to interpret the Bible (one’s reason is not sufficient) but simply to believe that it is really the Word of God. In other words I feel there is a logical fallacy in Sola Scriptura of Protestants. Therefore, when considering which “Church” is right, I rejected all forms of Protestantism.
    2. Ok, the Holy Tradition is great. There were 7 ecumenical Councils in the first millennium explaining Christ’s message and what heretical beliefs are. And then came Photius and the subsequent schism. I have read hundreds of orthodox-catholic polemics. The arguments of both groups were VERY convincing and I couldn’t decide who is right. I realized that not only I am not able to interpret the Bible but that the Holy Tradition also needs to be explained. Aha! Here is a point for Catholics because what I needed was the Magisterium. Cardinals and Popes interpreting and explaining the teaching of the Bible and of the Holy Tradition. I love orthodox theology but I just feel that in the Orthodox Church there is no consensus on some issues only because for the last 1000 years there was no authority capable of imposing any consensus. In other words it is sometimes quite difficult to discern what the Orthodox Church really teaches from what is an individual theologian’s opinion. Not to mention that the administrative chaos of different overlapping jurisdictions does not encourage conversions.
    3.So far so good. So I am in the Roman Catholic Church. I believe that Pope Francis is a fantastic leader. To understand better the Church I went back to the documents of the SVII. I read, among others, “Dignitatis humanae” and I felt it is a beautiful and wise document. And then it started. All my Catholic friends who treat religion seriously (I know many people who attend the Catholic mass but their faith is very superficial) are traditionalists. Even if not all of them are openly Lefebvrists, all of them believe that the sin of modernism is more and more omnipresent in the Church and that Pope Francis is actually a terrible pope. More importantly even, they believe the Latin mass is much more powerful and more beautiful that the modern one (I actually agree) and that many SVII documents and especially Dignitatis humanae are contrary to the not-so-old teachings of the Holy Magisterium. Their arguments are pretty much solid. One of my friends told me: “well, here you have all the evidence, use your reason and you’ll see we are right”. Wait what? I decided that I am not able to interpret the Bible on my own, that my reason is not sufficient to decide which tradition (orthodox or catholic) is right and now I am expected to use reason to decide whether the modern teachings of Magisterium are conform with the older ones? My trad friends do not seem that to understand that if I agree with them, I would undermine the whole reasoning that brought me to the Catholic Church. How am I supposed to interpret teachings of the Magisterium if the Magisterium is presumed to change its own teaching? I could as well use the reason to interpret the Bible on my own or perhaps I should have chosen to join the Orthodox Church. Or maybe the Anglican one (it was C.S Lewis who brought me back to Christianity, so it would be a reasonable choice) Honestly, I am at loss. Is there any flaw in my logic?
    I would be eternally grateful (perhaps literally) to any person who actually reads this and may help me in any way.
    Best,

    Offline TKGS

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    How do I know who is right? About converting
    « Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014, 05:58:50 PM »
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  • I won't be answering your questions because, frankly, I'm not sure what they really are.

    If you are serious about learning about the Catholic faith, and by that I mean the Catholic Faith that has been taught by the Church since her foundation on the first Pentecost Sunday, I would suggest you continue to research the faith.

    For starters, go to Restoration Radio online and listen to some of their online broadcasts (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/restorationradio).  Call a traditional Catholic priest and discuss the both the faith and the crisis in the Church.  Read the Catechism of the Council of Trent (also called the Roman Catechism).  But, most importantly, begin to pray the Rosary.

    If you are serious, you will do these things and more.  

    If you aren't, then you'll probably just continue to troll about various forums.


    Offline Matto

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    How do I know who is right? About converting
    « Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 06:02:37 PM »
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  • If you think “Dignitatis humanae” is "a beautiful and wise document" and you think Pope Francis is a great leader, then you are not a traditionalist yet because traditionalists think Vatican II is dangerous and good for nothing but burning and they think Pope Francis is good at leading the world nowhere but to hell. I hope you become a traditionalist in time because I think it is the truth and where salvation is and I hope everyone comes to know the truth and achieve salvation.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    How do I know who is right? About converting
    « Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 06:10:40 PM »
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  • We will pray for your conversion to Catholicism.
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    How do I know who is right? About converting
    « Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 06:15:25 PM »
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  • Pray the Rosary.  
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline songbird

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    How do I know who is right? About converting
    « Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014, 07:11:35 PM »
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  • the Douay Rheim Bible is translated by theologins.  The Commentaries.  Haydock.

    Offline Cantarella

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    How do I know who is right? About converting
    « Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 07:49:38 PM »
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  • Welcome to the Roman Catholic Church! Be grateful that God has guided you into the ONLY way of salvation amidst this time of great apostasy and massive diabolical disorientation. I suggest you to adhere to what is has been taught by the Church INFALLIBLY since Christ Lord walked among us. Infallible dogmas proclaimed by Holy Mother Church cannot err or be contradicted because they are truly of divine origin. Get to really know them, accept them and pray much. Also, try to separate the Divine Faith from the human "politics" and opinions. Once you really grasp an understanding on Catholic DOGMAS and you start practicing the Faith humbly and striving to be a righteous Catholic in good faith, you may find yourself in a better position to judge what is right from wrong within the Church as a human organization. The most important thing is not to lose perspective of the Church being Heaven - made, not man - made. The first and most important business for any Catholic should be the salvation of hos / her own soul through the supernatural life of grace.  
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    How do I know who is right? About converting
    « Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 08:09:36 PM »
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  • Welcome to the One True Faith. I'd recommend you find a traditionalist Catholic parish and find out what the Church teaches without error in regards of faith and morals. You'll see "Catholic" parishes around your town and city, but those are what they call "Novus Ordo". They've been deprived of authentic Catholicism in favor of ecumenical, heretical garbage.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca


    Offline johnb104

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    How do I know who is right? About converting
    « Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 08:55:13 PM »
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  • For sure do what a previous poster said. Pray the Rosary.

    I had no faith before Mary started tugging on my hardened heart. She will lead you to the truth. Say the Rosary even if it's just a few decades.

    Get St. Louis de Montforts book "Secret of The Rosary" - SECOND TO NONE!
    St. Joseph the Worker, pray for us!

     

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