Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Sophia on July 15, 2011, 05:35:56 PM
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I'm almost 19 years old. Last year I lost my virginity to my then bf....luckily I'm out of that relationship now, but I'm still struggling with the same temptation. I have a wonderful boyfriend right now...I wouldn't say perfect, but he's just been amazing these past 7 months....the problem is that we've been getting more physical.
Gah, this feels so weird just talking to random strangers I don't even know...but I know I can't do this alone anymore. I need help before I let this get out of hand again. It's so hard...and I've dealt with this temptation all my life, since I was 7...which gives me reason to believe I was molested as a child before I was molested by my brother at 12...it's easy to blame the past....but now is now, and I don't want to go through the pain and suffering again and ruin this relationship. I know this is choppy and probably makes little sense, but I jut can't think straight right now...
Please, is there anyone out there that can help me?
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End this relationship immediately. Pick up your Rosary, right now, and begin to pray it. Our Lady will guide you. :pray:
sheep
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Welcome, Sophia :)
God reward your simplicity for sharing these hard things with strangers.
IMO, unless your bf is in a position to MARRY you, you should consider breaking it off. Dating/courtship only has ONE purpose, and it is not to pass the time or gain "experience."
What is done is done, but do not lose heart, sweet pea -- all things happen for a reason and you can obtain something more important than purity of body: purity of heart. God loves the pure of heart :)
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This guy is the best thing to happen to in a very long time...I don't want to just leave someone who cares for and respects me as much as he does...maybe I should have explained this better.
Even if I was single, I still have massive issues with abstinence. I have since I was about 12 years old. Weather it be masturbating, impure thoughts, feelings, or actions...its still there. The boy I'm dating knows this, and does whatever he can to help me. When I said "physical" I didn't mean we were actually having sex or anything near that....but I'm afraid of letting it get to that point...
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Please, is there anyone out there that can help me?
After Our Lord and Our Lady, you are your own savior.
All of us are subject to the "sting of the flesh", and some more intensely than others. But God gives us the necessary graces, or the opportunities to obtain those graces, that we need to subdue it. Say the whole Rosary everyday without fail, do spiritual reading and read the biographies of the saints to remove your mind from the world, and practice mortification. And by that I dont mean go and scourge yourself to bleeding or anything like that! I mean at least TRY to deprive yourself of comfort in little ways, fast every once in a while by skipping a meal, exercise often, keep yourself occupied with some constructive pursuit/keep busy. Mortification reinforces your will. When you make sacrifices for something, you will be less likely to give it up, and this is especially true when it comes to chastity.
God provides the medicine, but you have to swallow it to beat the sickness.
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I really hope I can stick to that...though mortification might not be the best idea for me at this point...because I've been fighting a whole other battle involving anorexia and self harm...mortification might be too tempting for me to use as an excuse at this point.
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:cry:
I am going to share something with you because I can DIRECTLY relate to what you're saying.
When I was a young girl, a babysitter molested me, and a few members of my family as well on one of the FEW occasions my parents actually left the house. At the time this happened, he was not punished because he was underage at the time, but now, he is currently serving prison time in Washington State for DOING THE SAME THING, and now he's in his 40's. Serial pervert.
Anyway, I had a warped view of relationships when I was a young lady, too...
The reason I'm telling you this is because I don't want you to fall into the same trap I did.
I actually went looking for illicit relations, but ironically it was with the man that is now my husband. This crumbled our relationship in the beginning. I had just turned 18 when it happened, and it was completely my fault.
There was a young man that my parents could not stand (rightfully so,) that I'd known since I was around 14, and he attempted to take advantage of me 4 years before. Stupidly, when I destroyed my relationship with my then future husband, I felt completely worthless, and I gave myself over to this troublemaker for comfort.
Since I was 18, I could "do whatever I wanted" and I made the abhorrent, sinful decision to basically be a concubine to this man. Not long after, nature being as it is, I discovered a week before my high school graduation that I was pregnant.
Needless to say, he didn't want anything to do with it, and he was upset (duh, what did he think was going to happen?). I started calculating my options.
I didn't want him to grow up without a father. I knew he wasn't going to have that if he stayed with me. With tremendous pressure from my extended family to keep him, which made my decision vastly more difficult than it had to be, I gave him up for adoption.
This was something I wouldn't ever had to go through if I had stuck to my morals, and quelled my rebellious inclinations.
Even after that happened, I struggled, thinking no one would want me, because I had done what I had done, and because of what had happened to me when I was a young girl.
Being the totally undeserving person I am, God miraculously sent me my husband, in the most unlikely way.
Right now, my son that I gave up is 15 now, and I pray so hard that someday he will come back to find me. I have been married 13 years, and it is only by the beautiful mercy of God that I was plucked from the clutches of my sin, and placed in the protective hands of my husband.
At the time he felt I was "too young" for him, when we were dating initially, but three years can change things. I was married at 21 to the one that I had so foolishly thrown myself at, and thank God it was someone who had the Faith.
I am glad you've come here to ask for help. Back then, I didn't have many friends because of my outspokenness, and was basically shunned, and starved for attention.
This caused me to leap at any attention I would receive from the opposite sex most especially.
Despite what you think, IF YOU WANT A DECENT MAN, THEY DO NOT WANT SEX FROM YOU, AND WILL RESPECT YOU IF YOU DO NOT!
I am going to link a thread. Tell your boyfriend that you need to take a week break, and read this book, pleasepleaseplease believe me and get a copy of it.
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Modern-women-want-to-have-their-cake-AND-eat-it-too
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Thank you for explaining the issue more clearly. Sins of the flesh is very hard to conquer. I am not the best at advising you but you came to the right forum for guidance and prayers.
...I wouldn't say perfect,
What do you mean by this? You don't have to answer, but how I took it is that you know something is wrong here but can't put your finger on it.
Still, you might want distance yourself from your bf until you study and pray on this issue . It sounds like he will be very understanding and supportive of this idea.
I will keep you in my prayers,
sheep
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I really hope I can stick to that...though mortification might not be the best idea for me at this point...because I've been fighting a whole other battle involving anorexia and self harm...mortification might be too tempting for me to use as an excuse at this point.
Just out of curiosity, are you Catholic? (This is not an attack on you, just a sincere question)
Mortification does not automatically mean depriving yourself of all food. What it can mean is not drinking anything other than water for a day, giving up putting salt on your scrambled eggs for a day, etc. Things like that. It doesn't need to be anything big.
Also, I don't mean to get personal, but if you've had sex with this man that you're currently dating, you need to break it off. In fact, I'd suggest you break it off anyways because it seems as though you're a little bit too confused to be in a relationship anyways. You say that this man is the best thing that's ever happened to you in a while. That's a very troubling statement. If the best thing that's ever happened to you in a while is anything other than finding traditional Catholicism, I'd be very worried. In fact.. I am worried. You have gone through quite a lot, and I personally don't believe a relationship is what you need right now. You need spiritual direction and the sacraments of the Church to get your life in order. Trust in Jesus, Our Lady, the Angels and the Communion of Saints.
You have a lot to worry about, and a relationship should not be one of them. Men will come and go but Christ is forever. Just know that.
I don't doubt that the man you are dating is a good man, truly, I don't. However, at the same time, you might want to think about how your troubles could be affecting him. Love can wait. Blindly trust in Our Lord as St. Gertrude the Great did in her life, and you will never be let down. I promise.
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I really hope I can stick to that...though mortification might not be the best idea for me at this point...because I've been fighting a whole other battle involving anorexia and self harm...mortification might be too tempting for me to use as an excuse at this point.
I understand what you're saying.
If that's the case, then a daily Rosary accompanied by some prayers said to Our Lady for purity in the morning and at night when going to bed will get you started with something to build on. But you will find that a 15 decade Rosary is most effective, (though difficult if you're impatient like me).
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If you do not already, pray the daily Rosary. It is very important to develop a devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary to stay pure in body and soul. God does indeed give the necessary graces to overcome any temptation, also when wounds of the past have to do with it. But it is important to keep praying.
It is also needless to say that you should avoid occasions of sin. Perhaps it is also good to have something to occupy yourself with when the temptations come, to avoid idleness.
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Parentsfortruth:
Thank you for sharing that with me...it means so much that you would tell me your story to help me. After all, one bad thing on our lives can produce a million good thins because of it. I actually had a week long no contact at all break from him for a religious retreat, and he;s going back to college on Monday, a couple of states away from where I live. One of the reasons I actually chose to go out with hi was because of the distance...I discovered since my last bf that i need allot of space, both mental and physical in order for me to think clearly. I also learned that no man deserve my body until he is my husband...so I put up spoken barriers with me and my current bf...its strange how when you don't intend to break rules you end up finding loopholes...which is the source of our problem right now. Also the fact that I've been under the thumb of men so much I don't know how to find my voice when I feel uncomfortable...but I think this time it is more of my own fault than his, because I shut up the little voice in my head that says "you're going to regret this later!" and just keep going. I'm afraid of it escalating....and I think I proved today that if I leave it alone it will continue at this level of physical behavior and eventually evolve...
Sheep:
If you read above, you can see that we will have allot of distance soon because he'll have classes again and so will I. I think then I will be able to focus on my pure of heart goals.
And I don't mind answering your question. I say he isn't perfect because no one is. He does have some points that I'd rather he didn't have...like having a steady faith instead of being agnostic...but that is for him to discover, and I can only encourage him. He comes to church with me, and even attended adoration with me. I constantly talk about God (yeah, I'm a Jesus-freak as many people call me) and he never says anything negative. Just the other night he told me to always be strong in my faith and to never give in to pressure. He has the makings of a true Christian...if only he would see what I see. But now I'm rambling...
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I really hope I can stick to that...though mortification might not be the best idea for me at this point...because I've been fighting a whole other battle involving anorexia and self harm...mortification might be too tempting for me to use as an excuse at this point.
Would it be possible for you to do two things?
1. Say one Rosary every day (15 min.) and
2. One week away from the boyfriend to read some posts.( I am sure one of us can find some good readings to bump up).
Give it a whirl?
sheep
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Its funny you should say that Exilenomore...we've been trying to avoid idleness. The thing is, my parents with all good intentions try and keep us from that very same sin causing occurrence, and end up pushing us into it. I can't go to his house under any circuмstance. No parks, not the library, hiking or anything that involves us being even remotely alone. So we have: my house, the mall, out to dinner, the movies. Because both my parents are usually always working, we have on all days except Sunday: the mall, out to dinner, the movies. Because neither of us have spare money, we have: the mall. I am sick of the mall...and e just end up finding places to be alone anyways, because I hate crowds and you can't hear each other or do...anything actually. Meanwhile, if we could go to the library we could go on his computer and watch movies (with headphones of course) read, find interesting books, and do all sorts of stuff. If we could go hiking.....well, I think it best if we didn't go alone on hikes, but at least we'd have someplace interesting to walk. If i could go to his house, we'd have video games, movies, card games, board games, loud conversations and I could get to know his parents better. We found out we would have more to do everywhere else but the mall...and that's all we have.
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Parentsfortruth:
Thank you for sharing that with me...it means so much that you would tell me your story to help me. After all, one bad thing on our lives can produce a million good thins because of it. I actually had a week long no contact at all break from him for a religious retreat, and he;s going back to college on Monday, a couple of states away from where I live. One of the reasons I actually chose to go out with hi was because of the distance...I discovered since my last bf that i need allot of space, both mental and physical in order for me to think clearly. I also learned that no man deserve my body until he is my husband...so I put up spoken barriers with me and my current bf...its strange how when you don't intend to break rules you end up finding loopholes...which is the source of our problem right now. Also the fact that I've been under the thumb of men so much I don't know how to find my voice when I feel uncomfortable...but I think this time it is more of my own fault than his, because I shut up the little voice in my head that says "you're going to regret this later!" and just keep going. I'm afraid of it escalating....and I think I proved today that if I leave it alone it will continue at this level of physical behavior and eventually evolve...
Sheep:
If you read above, you can see that we will have allot of distance soon because he'll have classes again and so will I. I think then I will be able to focus on my pure of heart goals.
And I don't mind answering your question. I say he isn't perfect because no one is. He does have some points that I'd rather he didn't have...like having a steady faith instead of being agnostic...but that is for him to discover, and I can only encourage him. He comes to church with me, and even attended adoration with me. I constantly talk about God (yeah, I'm a Jesus-freak as many people call me) and he never says anything negative. Just the other night he told me to always be strong in my faith and to never give in to pressure. He has the makings of a true Christian...if only he would see what I see. But now I'm rambling...
Thank you for sharing Sophia, I see now. You are a strong young lady. Hang in there and take it one step at a time, baby steps if you have to.
What do you mean by "agnostic"? Does he call himself that? These can be questions to be answered for later. I was just curious.
sheep
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Sheep:
God brought me here for a reason. I went home from the movies today thinking that there has to be some online group out there that can help me through my faith with these issues....so I went home and searched. I found a couple others, but this one was the most active, so I joined and posted right away.
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Sheep:
He used to call himself atheist, but I told him the difference between Atheism and Agnosticism, and he corrected himself. He doesn't have a specific religion, but he does believe in God. Throughout his life he had massive pressure from his mom to be super religious like she was as a Lutheran. He had questions that were left unanswered, and eventually a faith he didn't believe in. Since highschool he never got involved with it again. He goes to church with his mom still, and with me even, but he doesn't fully participate. If he is called to God, which all of us are, I know he will find his way, and me being involved with him can only influence him in a good way.
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Sheep:
God brought me here for a reason. I went home from the movies today thinking that there has to be some online group out there that can help me through my faith with these issues....so I went home and searched. I found a couple others, but this one was the most active, so I joined and posted right away.
I am glad that you found this site, also. You will find a lot of support, prayers and education on the Faith.
Welcome,
sheep
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Sophia
I do not think it is wise to spend much time alone with him. You have said that you are struggling very much with temptations against chastity, and it is not good to feed those temptations. When I spoke of avoiding idleness, I actually meant when you are alone.
I think it would also be good to ask yourself whether you are looking for a marriage partner to share your life with until death strikes one of you. If this is not the case, then this relationship is injurious to your soul. Also, I think you already know this, but for Marriage, both partners must be Catholic.
Keep in mind that Christ is the most precious Pearl the soul can posess, and no creature is worth giving Him up for.
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Sophia, I'm not sure if you saw my previous post, but are you Catholic?
You should be going to Mass as much as you possibly can. I'm sure you've got free time, and if not, it's likely that you can make some. Go to Mass. You need the sacraments. All of this talk on CI is not going to help if you don't have the sacraments. Not even the Rosary is of much use to those that do not frequent the sacraments.
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Also, I think you already know this, but for Marriage, both partners must be Catholic.
If God will convert him, then that problem would of course be solved.
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Deagus:
Okay, so I tried writing this before in an edit, but it wouldn't send....so here I go again.
I am a Catholic. I don't think I can do mortification because its much too tempting to take it to the extremes and say I'm doing good. Trust me, I'll find an excuse to do harm to myself...I'm in recovery right now, its very easy for me to relapse. I've been staying away from dieting for the very same reasons.
I have not had sex with this man, and we don't plan to. I say he's one of the best things to happen to me in awhile, because he is- as far as dating is concerned anyway. The best thing to happen to me was going on a mission trip last week and finding God again. Building my relationship with God has actually grown since I started dating my bf. He's respectful of my body, family, faith, views, flaws, imperfections, and everything...He's the one who makes sure I believe I'm beautiful...everyday without fail. Besides that, he's a true friend, and a friend before a lover...always. I don't want to give up on this relationship unless i really truly have to...and if it comes to that, he will understand and step back so I can get my life in order. I try to be as independent as possible, and he respects and encourages that. He's more of a best friend who happens to be a really good kisser than anything else.
I understand exactly what you're saying and where you're coming from...I wish I knew it all before I lost my virginity to the previous fellow who used me. But that's why I am who I am right now, and I am getting through it. Because of it, I was able to connect with a girl I thought I had nothing common with...when really we were exactly the same. Good things come from the worst.
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Exile:
When I was first dating him, I was not looking for any kind of marriage partner because I had no idea bout that part of dating as a Catholic. Only after I discovered it (which as recently) did I begin wondering if he would be a good husband and father. At this point, of all that I've learned about him, I think he is potentially a very good match for me, and I think God is leading me in the right direction with him.
Deagus:
I attend mass every week, and confession once a month. If I could spend more time at my church, I would...which is why I want to be a Youth Minister for my Youth Group this year.
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Exile:
When I was first dating him, I was not looking for any kind of marriage partner because I had no idea bout that part of dating as a Catholic. Only after I discovered it (which as recently) did I begin wondering if he would be a good husband and father. At this point, of all that I've learned about him, I think he is potentially a very good match for me, and I think God is leading me in the right direction with him.
In any case, you can't date or marry him since he is not Catholic because mixed marriages are forbidden by the Church.
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Samuri:
Correction, they are not encouraged.
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Exile:
When I was first dating him, I was not looking for any kind of marriage partner because I had no idea bout that part of dating as a Catholic. Only after I discovered it (which as recently) did I begin wondering if he would be a good husband and father. At this point, of all that I've learned about him, I think he is potentially a very good match for me, and I think God is leading me in the right direction with him.
Deagus:
I attend mass every week, and confession once a month. If I could spend more time at my church, I would...which is why I want to be a Youth Minister for my Youth Group this year.
Just out of curiosity.. You said this man was an agnostic. I hope you know the Church's traditional stance on mixed (interfaith) marriage.. It may seem like he'll convert in the long run but we all know how things aren't always what they seem :gandalf:
Anywho.. Another question. Do you go to a TLM (Traditional Latin Mass)/Tridentine Mass or a Novus Ordo Missae (Mass in the vernacular). If it is the latter I suggest you stop going and find a TLM in your area. If you really want your faith to flourish, the Novus Ordo will simply not do it for you. Look for FSSP, SSPX or perhaps even a CMRI parish to go to and see how that works out if you haven't.
Also.. Go to confession more than once a month if you can. You may want to read up the lives of the saints in your spare time (when I say this, I'm not actually presenting you with an option. I am telling you to do it) and ponder upon their lives. Pray the Rosary as was suggested. Do all of the other things. Deeply consider whether or not your relationship is worth it, so that, if he tries to douse the flame of Faith you may have, you will cut it off. Etc..
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God works in mysterious ways....
Check out this forum more in depth, you will find amazing threads... like gold sparkling out of every crevice in a mine, just dig out as much as you can. You will feel like a million bucks too after realizing following truth (which I already see you are doing) is the best feeling ever.
I'm probably not much older than you (Im 23) and if I could go back and get my virginity again, and strive for a pure heart back then instead of 'cash, money, ho and blow'... I would be more ahead today than I am and have avoided much heartache.
ALAS... back to my first sentence of this post ... "God works in mysterious ways"... all things work for the greater good of God. This relationship you are in with this particular person has probably helped you develop in certain ways and kept you safe for now. Now maybe its time to be with yourself, with God, and with Mary (YES, MARY IS KEY HERE! Trust me, she saved me from almost making the worst decision of my life, right when I finished doing the True Devotion consecration to her... PM me if you want THAT story).
You're in my prayers, sophia. :)
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I don't think some of you understand...
I'm a very faithful, and very strong practicing Catholic. I was homeschooled by a Catholic organization and my parents. I have read plenty on the saints...I go to confession only once a month because sometimes thats when I can make it because I can't drive, nor do my parents have the time to take me to church whenever I ask. My bf is not trying to interfere with my faith, he encourages it. Please guys, I came on here to ask for help...not to be judged.
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Please guys, I came on here to ask for help...not to be judged.
And we (and I) are sincerely trying to give it to you. No one is judging you. We're trying to help you identify and correct anything that is going to be detrimental to your salvation.
I'm just concerned, because you say that you are Catholic, but at the same time your dating an Agnostic (as good a guy as he is), and are considering marrying him. Think carefully, aside from the fact the Church does not give it's blessing to such a marriage (and USED to condemn them until recently), what guarantee do you have that this man will not raise your children up to be agnostics like himself, or at the very least influence them? You will then be responsible for your children's loss of the faith.
Can't you see we only have your best interests at heart here?
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The thing is, I'm not getting married until I complete my schooling (another six years from now) and land a steady job. That's a long time from now. I believe that this young man is good for me and I may possibly marry him one day. I believe in raising my children as my parents have...answering every question they ask with honesty and raising them in the faith through the Sacraments and love of God. If I'm not meant to marry him, then I'm not. When my parents met, my dad was a drunk and my mom was struggling with her faith. Now my dad has long debates with my parish priests on the tradition of the faith, and my mom doesn't go a day without thanking God, and they have raised me and my five siblings to grow richly in God's love for us. Me being with an Agnostic doesn't make me any less Catholic than anyone here. Part of being Catholic is being accepting...forgiving, caring, loving one another despite our differences. He's only 20 years old and he has all the time in the world to find God, and if you take me away from him there is less of a chance of that.
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Hi Sophia,
I am 16 years old and I understand how hard it is to stay chaste. A few summers ago when I was 14, I was home alone and I got curious about porn (I am a male by the way and don't mean to go into too much detail), so I logged onto the computer got onto a porn website and just started watching it. This was probably the first time I saw a nude female. My heart was beating quickly, I was sweating, and everything else that happens to a male when watching sex. I was still curious so I started masturbating and I just have to say I thought it was well worth it. It was my first time masturbating also. After that I would say I was addicted, not to much to porn, but just masturbating. I used to never go 1 day without masturbating.
This really messed with me and I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder about a year later. I was still masturbating for about thrice a week. I actually felt like going to ask a girl out just to have sex with her, that's how bad my chastity was. I had been praying the Rosary because I saw how bad my masturbation had been. This really helped me to resist Satan's temptations to masturbate for about 1 week at a time.
One day, April 2 of this year to be exact, I had masturbated and felt really bad about it, mostly because I have been discerning the sacred priesthood and couldn't stand looking at myself as a masturbating priest, so I went to confession that night. Since that Confession, I have not masturbated. That is about 3 1/2 months without masturbating, and for me, that's a miracle.
Anyway, what I did to cure my obsession was Confession and a lot of praying to Our Most Chaste and Immaculate Mother. Also, belief that Satan exists is a key to overcoming temptations. Without darkness, how do we know what is light? Liberals tell us that Satan doesn't exist or that he is only a "code name" for the evil in the world, but without a belief in Satan, our belief in God vanishes.
I hope this helped. Sorry if it didn't.
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ajpirc....you just described my life. I'm suffering from my addiction nearly every single day...which starts the violent cycle of self harm as punishment for masturbating, and anorexia as punishment for self harm, and impure thoughts to relieve the stress of everything, to porn, to masturbating, to self harm, to anorexia...I stopped with anorexia (hopefully for good) and I'm working on self harm...but the more I masturbate and look at porn, the harder it is to stay chaste with my boyfriend...it seems that being with God at the church only once a week isn't enough.
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Sophia,
Do as you will, is truly what we all here feel. Forcing someone beyond their will is never of God, just as the true Church has never forced anyone to conversion not of their will (even though history paints it the opposite way).
The advice many members give here is actually not of their own , but out of Charity and what God has spoken by His trumpet, the Church. No one here for the most part, I believe, does it to "change you" by force, guilt, or any other flesh reason. Its all just about the soul and being saved, if you know what I mean (which I am sure you do by your background you have given us).
I do echo what a previous poster has said , in keeping in mind that satan is real... not that I can clearly say if he is having any hand with your circuмstances right now, but knowing the dark it is much clearer in being able to see, and seek! the light.
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Sophia, you are making excuses. It sounds to me like you have a masochistic personality and are giving into despair. You will twist around any solution that someone gives you in order to create more pain for yourself. In your last post, you talk about "suffering from addiction," as if you have a disease you can't control. No. You don't have a disease, you have the same pangs of the flesh as all of us. You are simply giving into mortal sin. Look at it for what it is, and maybe when you see how ugly it is it will stop you.
You strike me as a very depressed person, but like many if not most depressed people, you don't seem to want to do anything to change your situation. Everything is exaggerated. You can't do works of penance ( mortification ) because it will lead you to cut yourself; you have to have your boyfriend or you will die. You know very well you won't die without your boyfriend. Come on.
Listen to the advice of Daegus, it is the best advice in the thread. You must do works of penance. No one is asking you to whip yourself or cut your flesh when they talk about mortification. Mortification can be as simple as not eating a donut when you're really craving one. The reason you should do this is to learn to do God's will instead of your own. Because whenever someone tells you what God's will is, you go "But... but... but..."
You say you don't want to marry for six years. I don't know your situation -- maybe you should marry earlier than that, maybe you shouldn't. But if what you're saying is true, if you are determined to finish college before marrying, there is no reason whatsoever for you to be dating at all. Period. End of story. You're stringing this guy along. Do you really expect him to wait for you that long? It's almost impossible.
From reading your posts, although you are a homeschooled Catholic, it sounds to me like your faith is very weak. You were raised that way, but it doesn't seem like true appreciation for God has "hit" you yet. God is not just someone who imposes a burden on you, He is someone who will love you forever, which no mortal can do, and who suffered horribly to give you the possibity of eternal life. Why do you speak so slightingly of this love while going goo-goo-ga-ga over your boyfriend? He's just a man, and trust me, he's not the only one of his kind or the only one you'll ever meet. He's not even a Catholic.
Parentsfortruth tried to give you an example of how some people have to ruin their lives, or come very close to it, to appreciate the gift of faith that they've been given. Hopefully that isn't you. If you are a traditional Catholic, where is your appreciation for having the truth in a time when almost the whole world is deceived and in danger of eternal hell?
But you sound almost dismissive about the fact that you're a Catholic. Daegus had to grill you to find out if you were a Catholic at all. That was what I was wondering when I first read your posts.
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Thank you Party...
and I know that there are some great people here, but I feel belittled by this website in general. As a woman and as a young Catholic in a modern world...I know all of you have been really great in trying to help me, and truly I thank you all....but I've been to different boards and the like today, and at every turn it feels like you're turning your backs to anything new or changing or different. I was taught that God loves you and me no matter what... no matter how we worship Him, or how we don't worship Him.
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Thank you Party...
and I know that there are some great people here, but I feel belittled by this website in general. As a woman and as a young Catholic in a modern world...I know all of you have been really great in trying to help me, and truly I thank you all....but I've been to different boards and the like today, and at every turn it feels like you're turning your backs to anything new or changing or different. I was taught that God loves you and me no matter what... no matter how we worship Him, or how we don't worship Him.
The reason being is because God is never changing, as He always has, was, and will be. Truly God cares about how we worship Him, because THAT is what will determine how close we will be to Him, and weather we will throw ourselves in hell or climb to be with Him for eternity.
Christ said I AM THE WAY. The world said "There are many ways to God".
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He's more of a best friend who happens to be a really good kisser than anything else.
That's already a mortal sin, you know. You grew up Catholic and you don't know that you can't make out with guys?
You say "If I do mortification, trust me, I'll end up in self-harm." Another excuse. Only if you want to. This is like if I said, "If I don't kill puppies I might kill people." There are some things you just don't do because you know it's wrong, and you pray to have the strength to stop.
What you need to do is pray for more faith. That is the main thing I can say. When we pray in the Rosary for "faith," it may seem redundant, since we already have the faith, right? But it's about more than that. Faith is not just believing that God exists, it's believing that He really does change our lives and works through us and in us, that He will carry us and protect us.
For instance, I am a very slothful person, but I have confidence that God will change me and give me a very good work ethic. I don't know how long it will take but I don't doubt for a second that He can turn me around completely. I am not going to make an excuse and say I'm naturally lazy or have a sleep disorder or anything like that. I will simply ask God for more strength to keep myself busy.
How many people who say they have faith really have this kind of living relationship with God? Too often we try to control everything ourselves and are afraid to let ourselves go, to have total confidence in His design and His providence. We say "I can't do this because of that," or "I can't do that because of this," forgetting that God can make anything happen.
Like so many unfortunate women these days, you clearly have major self-esteem issues. You are talking about how your boyfriend always lets you know you're beautiful. You're looking for approval from mere humans, instead of concentrating on your relationship with God.
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I was taught that God loves you and me no matter what... no matter how we worship Him, or how we don't worship Him.
Though technically correct -- God wants all men to be saved, which is a form of love -- He does send those who disobey Him or disbelieve in Him down to hell.
What you're saying here is religious indifferentism straight from the Novus Ordo. No wonder you are confused. To love God, you have to know Him; and what you have been taught does not sound right. Stick around on this website and see what you learn.
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The thing is, I'm not getting married until I complete my schooling (another six years from now) and land a steady job. That's a long time from now. I believe that this young man is good for me and I may possibly marry him one day. I believe in raising my children as my parents have...answering every question they ask with honesty and raising them in the faith through the Sacraments and love of God. If I'm not meant to marry him, then I'm not. When my parents met, my dad was a drunk and my mom was struggling with her faith. Now my dad has long debates with my parish priests on the tradition of the faith, and my mom doesn't go a day without thanking God, and they have raised me and my five siblings to grow richly in God's love for us. Me being with an Agnostic doesn't make me any less Catholic than anyone here. Part of being Catholic is being accepting...forgiving, caring, loving one another despite our differences. He's only 20 years old and he has all the time in the world to find God, and if you take me away from him there is less of a chance of that.
Let me try some analogies, to help explain what the good people are saying here.
The stewardess gives instructions on how to use the emergency oxygen masks before the aircraft takes off. She instructs that the parent places the mask on his/herself before placing it on his/her child. This is important so that if an accident were to occur the parent would have stability to help the child.
So, what we are saying is end the relationship, study and pray, get a secure and solid faith (have your mask securely in place) than go back and assist your bf.
If you do this there isn't less of a chance to help him, there is MORE of a chance to help him get closer to God.
Another analogy to help explain what happened to your parents. Think of your mother like a house. The house must have a firm foundation or the slightest wind will blow it away. It sounds like your mother had this foundation or their marriage would have never worked, the house would have blown away. Your father would not have been saved. We are asking you here and for the sake of your bf to first build the foundation to your house so when the wind blows and blow it will you and your bf will survive and have a wonderful married life.
I know this is very hard to do, but you have support here and it sounds like your father will be a great help too.
Ask him if he is willing to convert to Catholicism? This is a very important question for you to get the answer to.
Hang in there with us now, we really care about your soul. Pray one Rosary before you go to bed tonight. Our Lady is more a help then we ever will be.
sheep
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Sophia
The truth is that no one is belittling you. Almost the whole world now teaches what people like to hear, not what they need to hear. The faith does not change because the Essence of God is immutable. The Word assumed a human nature, not to encourage us to sink deeper into our sins, but to liberate us from them.
This message is not popular today, but it is still, after many centuries, the true one. The Truth will set you free.
Vices must be overcome with much prayer. You cannot permit your past wounds to enslave you. You must not give into despair, because no sin is too strong to be overcome by divine grace. To say otherwise would be an insult to the omnipotence of God, because God is infinitely stronger than our sins.
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I hope you see that people are sincerely trying to help you. You must understand that it is feigned charity to try and please people without warning them for the things that can place their souls in peril. God loves us all, but not our sins. He died a horrible death to save us from them. So no, He does not love our sins.
If you suffer from anorexia, fasting might be a bit imprudent. 'Fasting' with the objective to harm and destroy your body is not piety. But there can be absolutely no excuse for looking at vile images to incite your lower passions. You must stop this immediately. The core solution is obviously to submit yourself to God's will, and this is the greatest mortification. Mortification of the will.
Despite what the devil tells you, you do have free will and power to stop defiling yourself. We are not animals, but human beings endowed with the gift of reason. The workings of the lower passions must be subdued by the soul, aided with divine grace.
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Okay, I can't reply to everyone separately, so from what I've read I'm just going to try and make it clear from where I stand.
You are all trying to help me, and I love that...I appreciate what most of you are saying. However, almost all of you are making very quick assumptions of me, my beliefs, where I come from, how I practice my faith ext. I gave you very brief parts of who I am and what I'm about, and those small parts are not what entirely define me. I'm not going to explain my life in one post though, but please just keep in mind I'm more than just what I've posted last night and what I am going to right now.
I left crying last night because I felt misunderstood, hurt and judged. I don't want to be depressed forever, and I'm not making up excuses at every turn. This post was about how I need help preventing what happened last summer with my ex-boyfriend from happening again and ruining the relationship I have with a wonderful guy ho means allot to me, but not everything. I am not "goo-goo-ga-ga" over him, and I can definitely live without him. The most important thing in my life right now is God, my family, my passion (Art) and my education. My boyfriend is like a very close friend- he's very important to me, but not to the point where I need him or his approval of anything. Yes he calls me beautiful everyday, like any good boyfriend, husband or fiance should. It is something I like about him...that he takes the thought to tell me something like that JUST BECAUSE. Anyways, I'm not here to defend my boyfriend all night. I'm not breaking up with him because strangers told me to do so without even knowing who I am or who he is. I have a healthy (not like a "sɛҳuąƖ" healthy that society says you must have, but a spiritual and emotional healthy) relationship with him right now, and I'm not just about to give that up when there isn't a major problem there. He's not taking away from my faith, not taking me away from my family, school work, art, friends or any part of my life.
My issues with self-harm (NOT CUTTING) and anorexia are being dealt with right now, and I'm working on that. The only reason why I said no to mortification was because I don't know how I can handle it at this point. I've spoken to my priest about it many times, and I'm searching for solitude with prayer. I haven't hurt myself for about two weeks now, and its been about three since I even so much as skipped a meal. This is not why I'm here, I wish you would please leave it out of this because it is a problem I'm already dealing with.
I'm not getting married for six years because I don't need to do that right away. If a guy waits that long for me, then he is worth keeping around. You would be surprised how long people wait to get married without any sɛҳuąƖ contact.
I said a good kisser. I did not say we make out all the time. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with kissing someone before marriage.
I can call masturbating and porn an addiction because all sins are addictions. I'm not trying to single myself out as having special problems and needs.
If someone tells me I'm not a good Catholic because I think more contemporary, that's fine. Honestly it's just your opinion. If I'm not being a good Catholic by being a part of my youth group, being an active member of the church, singing contemporary (not full out Christian rock, just contemporary...calm yourselves) music in my choir, studying the bible, recognizing and trying to correct my sins... then I guess I am nothing but a sinner, and Christ shall be my Savior.
Again, I came here for help with abstinence because I obviously have trouble remaining chaste. It's not my boyfriend's fault, he is just as human as I am. We aren't going around having sex every day, nor do we even think of or plan to. What I meant by "physical" in the first post, is that we are heading down that road (not ON that road, just driving towards it) and luckily we caught it before it could get worse. He's a good man and I want to try and work this relationship out through God...which is why I came here, to ask for help to keep us from falling into that sin. I have received lots of feedback...and not all of it positive. But what I learned here is that I need to have my relationship with Mary strengthened through the rosary...and that through prayer and meditation I can find a direct answer.
Two more things before I end this post...
1.) would it kill you guys to be a little more accepting and understanding when someone comes to you for help?
2.) why can't I access my private messages?
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1.) would it kill you guys to be a little more accepting and understanding when someone comes to you for help?
2.) why can't I access my private messages?
Hi, I am so glad you returned. I had a feeling you were going to come back and let me tell you why after I answer the second question first.
The second question put a smile on my face because I had the same question when I joined. It was explained to me that you must be an established member. It takes about a week and then you will be able to receive your pms.
The reason why I thought you would come back is because you have looked into the faces and eyes of the people that surround you (home, choir, priest, bf, etc) and you know deep down they will NOT be able to give you the TRUTH. In other words they DO "accept and understand" you as you are right now and this is not helping your abstinence.
And you are right we DO NOT "accept and understand" the position you hold right now and never will.(except the part about Our Lady)
However, we do have what you are longing for and what the others you are with will never give you and it is TRUTH.
And this TRUTH will help you with your abstinence.
You are simply not used to hearing the truth and you have mistaken it for judgment.
It was the will of God that you came to this site, so because you may not have liked what I said please do not go away, Hang in there with us. And yes, keep close to Our Lady.
sheep
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You have to be a member for a week before you can access your private messages. That's just the forum rules.
Just to let you know.
And what Sheep is saying is true. We are NOT judging you. We are trying to get you to know what the truth is about things.
One thing you can count on from this site, is that people are genuinely concerned about the welfare of your soul, and not simply being "chummy" with you so that you can feel good. Catholics want to bring people to the knowledge of the truth in order to save their souls, not just to "get along, and accept and be friends." Being friends with someone without helping them save their soul is not being a friend at all.
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But what I learned here is that I need to have my relationship with Mary strengthened through the rosary...and that through prayer and meditation I can find a direct answer.
Hello Sophia,
May I also recommend that you say 3 Hail Marys every morning and every night asking Our Lady to protect your purity and to preserve you from all sin? The practice of the 3 Hail Marys is very ancient and perhaps you have already heard about it. Many of the saints have advised Catholics to cultivate this practice to Our Lady. It is simple and yet there are many stories of the great power of this devotion in preserving the faithful from sin.
Sincerely,
ora pro me
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You may wish to re-read the postings. Raoul76 has given you the most sound counsel on the topic.
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I am not saying that you are doing this, but it is what usually happens:
When two wonderful people meet, it is the girl who is really overjoyed at finding a unique guy and afraid of losing him. So she does anything in her power, do anything he says, just to keep him. After a while the guy realizes it, knows well how the girl is attached and learn a very bad thing: that he can ask for anything he wants, and none of his demands will be refused. Males have an instinct that tells them when a woman reaches this degree of fear of loss.
But it is just when the girl loses all her individuality and personal boundaries that the guy leaves her for a one that is a challenge. Then the girl feels empty, as if someone has sucked all her energy and then threw her away. Just the way you treat a bottle of cola: drink the juice, throw it in the bin.
If a guy really loves, he will respect her boundaries.
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1.) would it kill you guys to be a little more accepting and understanding when someone comes to you for help?
Dear Sophia,
I know there has been plenty of great posts to go through here with sound advice. I believe however, and as this sentence of yours points out, you may not be really looking for help but acceptance.
I suggest, as others have, to turn to true and humble prayer, and not random Catholic message boards. You are most welcome here, however, I don't see this as being what you need. God is not keeping any answers from you- he only wants you to ask and listen. You then have the power to accept or reject what he says.
Please know everyone here cares for you, but this is probably the last place you will find a means to your desire of unconditional acceptance. We will only lead you towards a higher and harder, and therefore, a more holy life- one that is at odds with where you may be now, and where the world and your lower intellect wants you to stay.
You will remain in my prayers.
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This thread was posted when I was without internet.
I'm surprised no one pointed out the absurdity of the young woman saying she had to keep her boyfriend and that he would have to wait six years for her to be ready for marriage.
These are the absurd convolutions that occur when a composite value system of feminism and Christianity is taught and pharisaically imposed by double-minded parents and clerics.
It's no wonder the young woman was so confused. - her fundamental beliefs about what she was supposed to do with her life were hopelessly conflicting.
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I read the first post again and a rather general question came to my mind: does experiencing carnal temptations from very a young age mean one is molested in the past?
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I read the first post again and a rather general question came to my mind: does experiencing carnal temptations from very a young age mean one is molested in the past?
No. If you're a five year old boy and you see a nude woman because your mother took you through the women's changing room at the pool it has a powerful effect.
Such things don't depend on having any knowledge of the matter, they are instinctive.
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I read the first post again and a rather general question came to my mind: does experiencing carnal temptations from very a young age mean one is molested in the past?
It doesn't necessarily, but when kids are exposed to sɛҳuąƖ things at a much younger age than they should be, it certainly creates an unhealthy understanding of sɛҳuąƖity. If that is joined with a lack of good moral formation, the consequences can be especially devastating.
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I read the first post again and a rather general question came to my mind: does experiencing carnal temptations from very a young age mean one is molested in the past?
It doesn't necessarily, but when kids are exposed to sɛҳuąƖ things at a much younger age than they should be, it certainly creates an unhealthy understanding of sɛҳuąƖity. If that is joined with a lack of good moral formation, the consequences can be especially devastating.
Sigismund, it was someone else named Sigismund who created an incredibly influential system of "psychology" that encouraged people to believe they experienced sɛҳuąƖ molestation but blocked it out of their memories. He encouraged such paranoid beliefs.
The only correct answer to SoJ's question is No.
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+JMJ+
Friends of Our Lord and the Holy Family,
I have been away for a while, and I have been back to read but not post lately, but I felt it was necessary to offer some advice upon reading the questions and comments in this thread.
First, to Sophia: It can be very difficult to come to a forum like this one, where there are so many people who are passionate about their traditional Catholic faith, and feel understood and accepted. Many people who post here have been through incredibly trying times spiritually and emotionally due to the collapse of the leadership in Rome. These posters are trying to help you, but they are also very afraid for you because most of what you consider your Catholic upbringing may have done as much harm as good. Please be patient with those who are trying to help you and don't leave because you might feel "judged". Medicine sometimes doesn't taste good, but it is necessary.
Second, to the rest of the posters, esp. those who are younger in age/experience and male: PLEASE, for the sake of your own purity, Sophia's purity AND the modesty of the other readers here, refrain from addressing your or anyone's sɛҳuąƖ sin in any sort of detail. These things should NOT be discussed between males and females UNLESS the male is the woman's husband, priest-confessor or other spiritual authority. We must all guard our chastity so as to honor Our Lord and imitate Our Lady. If there are older, mature Catholic WOMEN on the forum who would like to communicate with Sophia, I am sure Matthew can make an exchange of contact information possible privately. Anyone else would do well to offer spiritual advice on prayer, good reading and other healthy spiritual practices and to stay far away from specifics. We are dealing with the care and well-being of a young, single woman, not our daughter or sister or relative; even in those cases, modesty and holiness would best be served by encouraging her to seek a traditional priest for confession and spiritual formation.
Sophia, I will ask God for the graces to remember you daily in prayer and I offer an intention for your purity and growth in faith even as I am typing this.
St. Gemma Galgani, holy and devoted virgin, pray for Sophia and for us.
O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.
Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
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I read the first post again and a rather general question came to my mind: does experiencing carnal temptations from very a young age mean one is molested in the past?
It doesn't necessarily, but when kids are exposed to sɛҳuąƖ things at a much younger age than they should be, it certainly creates an unhealthy understanding of sɛҳuąƖity. If that is joined with a lack of good moral formation, the consequences can be especially devastating.
Sigismund, it was someone else named Sigismund who created an incredibly influential system of "psychology" that encouraged people to believe they experienced sɛҳuąƖ molestation but blocked it out of their memories. He encouraged such paranoid beliefs.
The only correct answer to SoJ's question is No.
I am sorry, but that is simply absurd. It has nothing to do with Freud. If a kid of ten, say, experiences sɛҳuąƖ assault, and sɛҳuąƖ feelings he or she would not otherwise have experienced at that age, can you seriously suggest that this is not going to create havoc with the child's sɛҳuąƖ feelings? Do you think this will simply go away? Do you think a child exposed to pornography is not going to have sɛҳuąƖ thoughts about it that he or she would not otherwise have had?
And my screen name is Sigismund, not Sigmund. :smile:
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The man's name was Sigismund Schlomo Freud.
This is what Spouse of Jesus asked:
does experiencing carnal temptations from very a young age mean one is molested in the past?
There's only one answer to that that's logical. No.
It was Freud who suggested that molestation was nearly universal (although he might have eventually renounced that insanely paranoid belief) and blocked out repressed, because he was a typical Jєωιѕн maniac.
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Tele,
You are right. I didn't read the question carefully enough. My apologies. Spouse asked about apples, and I replied with oranges.
And I learned something about Freud's real name.
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:pray: :pray: :pray:
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:reading:
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I was homeschooled by a Catholic organization and my parents. I have read plenty on the saints... Please guys, I came on here to ask for help...not to be judged.
Sophia, this is a very minimalist and dismissive response to excellent and very worthwhile counsel (to study and build a relationship with the saints). Do you have one whom you find attracts you?
I hope you will stay with us, as there is much to be learned here about courting and preparation for a Catholic marriage.
Telesphorus took the words out of my mouth (I have been away too and am new to this post). It is not good for you to have a boyfriend - that is a special and exclusive relationship with a young man of 20, when you have no intention whatsoever of marrying for another 6 years, and especially in view of the fact that he is not Catholic.
You have said you are looking at pornography (I pray you have ceased that by now) and that he is a good kisser. I presume that you mean that a kiss is more than a chaste peck on the cheek. If it is more than that, your desire for chastity will require that you no longer allow such behaviour.
You are truly loved here, because the people here want, not to prevent a few tears here and now, but for you to be happy in your remaining life on earth, and for you to enjoy the beatific vision in eternity. There is no greater thing to be achieved.
My husband has never told me that I am beautiful, but he does show that he loves me. It is nice to be told that, but it really is not so important in the long run. Beauty is only skin-deep and can easily be marred by sinful activity.
It is more important that your soul be beautiful, and it will be if you humbly accept the wisdom that is being so lovingly dispensed here on this forum.
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Hi Sophia,
You have been given very good advice in this thread. Please read it again and also look at the post by Sede in this Modern World forum.
When I was younger I also had an eating disorder. I was exposed to a lot of cruelty growing up. I'm older now and more conscious of my feelings. What I find clouds my judgement is feeling recognized, familiar, feeling like I'm special to someone. This familiarity isn't specific to romantic love. It's dangerous though when it comes from a man I am not married to. Feeling special to someone after being ignored or devalued for 19 years is powerful thing. The idea of running from temptation or I think Catholics teaching calls it an occasion of sin is a good one. For me that at times has meant not even meeting for lunch in public or something that would seem very innocent.
A man that respects you and want to marry doesn't meet so many of your emotional needs while you are dating him. You said he says you are beautiful daily, that is for marriage. I suspect he may be more aggressive than what you perceive him to be.
Why do you not want to marry now? You could be looking forward to the joy of married life and being a mother.
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I don't think some of you understand...
I'm a very faithful, and very strong practicing Catholic. I was homeschooled by a Catholic organization and my parents. I have read plenty on the saints...I go to confession only once a month because sometimes thats when I can make it because I can't drive, nor do my parents have the time to take me to church whenever I ask. My bf is not trying to interfere with my faith, he encourages it. Please guys, I came on here to ask for help...not to be judged.
Have you considered that 19 is too young to be in ANY kind of relationship? Most people should find out who they are as individuals before they start thinking about sharing themselves (meaning marriage) with another. You have a lot of years ahead of you but now is the time to develop yourself as a person (intellectually, emotionally, spiritually) including getting an education.
I always encourage my "young" friends to only see members of the opposite sex in group settings as exclusivity is for courtship and courtship is for marriage.
In these modern times it is my personal opinion that few individuals are ready for marriage before age 24/5 for women, 26/7 for men. Men in particular must be able to provide for a family before they start even considering looking for a wife and they have no business spending time alone with a young lady unless they are courting.
But even young ladies must "do" something vis a vis their daily work. God did not make wo/man to be idle. I'm not a feminist and I don't believe that women should "conquer" the corporate world but I do believe that God has a particular "job" for each one of us and we must seek out His will in our lives in this area.
If you invest the time and energy NOW in becoming the woman God wants you to be you'll be in a better position to recognize the man God wants you to spend your life with.
Marsha
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Marsha this is not Catholic teaching at all. I believe a man should wait until he can provide for a family as far as that I mean having a car, a dwelling space, some type of skill, not necessarily earn a set dollar amount or live in the suburbs. We should not teach young women to wait but encourage them to marry or enter the convent.
I agree with not being idle but that does not mean leaving her father's home or seeking employment.
Motherhood is a great opportunity for a young woman to mature if her personal development is the concern.
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It doesn't seem like Sophia posts her anymore, but there have been many good points made. My heart hurts for every young girl who has been brainwashed into thinking that college and dating men who pander to emotions is the answer.
I don't think some of you understand...
I'm a very faithful, and very strong practicing Catholic. I was homeschooled by a Catholic organization and my parents. I have read plenty on the saints...I go to confession only once a month because sometimes thats when I can make it because I can't drive, nor do my parents have the time to take me to church whenever I ask. My bf is not trying to interfere with my faith, he encourages it. Please guys, I came on here to ask for help...not to be judged.
Have you considered that 19 is too young to be in ANY kind of relationship? Most people should find out who they are as individuals before they start thinking about sharing themselves (meaning marriage) with another. You have a lot of years ahead of you but now is the time to develop yourself as a person (intellectually, emotionally, spiritually) including getting an education.
I always encourage my "young" friends to only see members of the opposite sex in group settings as exclusivity is for courtship and courtship is for marriage.
In these modern times it is my personal opinion that few individuals are ready for marriage before age 24/5 for women, 26/7 for men. Men in particular must be able to provide for a family before they start even considering looking for a wife and they have no business spending time alone with a young lady unless they are courting.
But even young ladies must "do" something vis a vis their daily work. God did not make wo/man to be idle. I'm not a feminist and I don't believe that women should "conquer" the corporate world but I do believe that God has a particular "job" for each one of us and we must seek out His will in our lives in this area.
If you invest the time and energy NOW in becoming the woman God wants you to be you'll be in a better position to recognize the man God wants you to spend your life with.
Marsha
I know these suggestions are well meaning and motivated by love, but I find the advice to be really discouraging. I would have been so much better off if I had married right out of high school. At that point there still could have been time to save me from so much of the world. Maybe not everyone is ready at that age, but I really think most are. If you are old enough to live in a dorm with strangers and be exposed to modernism 24/7...even academically, then certainly you are old enough to be a wife and mother under the protection and guidance of a strong husband.
God designed women to be able to become mothers a long time before the 24/5 age suggested. Why would he do that if that it was so wrong? Yes, to some degree, cultural norms should be recognized and emotional maturity usually doesn't happen until the late teens, but a 20 year old woman like Sophia is more than ready to be married if she finds the right man.
Waiting until mid twenties (or sadly and all too often even later) not just on purpose, but for reasons such as education (which is almost always an occasion of feminist indoctrination) and "finding themselves" is an unnatural extension of adolescence. Far to many will lose their souls in that time. It is one thing if you just don't meet someone or you aren't sure if marriage is your calling in the first place, but society needs to stop pushing this idea that marriage should be delayed unnaturally.
Girls who have too much time in their lives to become independent (both financially and emotionally) will have a harder time submitting to the level of dependence that is required for a properly ordered marriage.
I know I sound like a broken record on this topic, but it is personal pain that has made me feel so strongly about it. I can't help but be passionate. It isn't enough to reject just the most obvious parts of feminism. The roots run so much deeper than we want to admit.
Sophia, if by some miracle you ever come here again, God Bless you. You are in my prayers. You are still young enough to turn it all around by turning it over to God. Tiffany had a great suggestion for you on the other thread for your artistic aspirations. If you wish to be married (which it sounds like you do) then marriage and motherhood will be your highest calling. No matter where your life has taken you since you posted this, please message me if you ever need a friend.
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In these modern times it is my personal opinion that few individuals are ready for marriage before age 24/5 for women, 26/7 for men. Men in particular must be able to provide for a family before they start even considering looking for a wife and they have no business spending time alone with a young lady unless they are courting.
As a Catholic, you statement has the implication that young women must not allow themselves to be courted, to keep clear from men until they are nearly 24. Trying to impose such a rule is totally unnatural and unrealistic and at some level shows willful self-delusion about human nature.
And this really is an extremely serious, grave problem, because some trad priests have said similar things. They don't say it because they believe it's natural for women to wait, or that women are really incapable of marriage at younger ages. No, they say it to please bourgeois parents, who if they are really are seriously Catholic are seriously deluding themselves about human nature when they send their daughters out into the modern world alone.
These liberal minded priests are incredibly perverse and probably even wicked in their support for the customs of this corrupt society. They DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to teach such things from the pulpit. It is a right of Christians to marry - their natural rights MUST be taken into account by priests. Priests who believe in such unnatural delays and use their power to try to impose pharisaic delays seem to be motivated by some sort of deep seated malice and contempt for innocent love, which they rationalize by claiming it's necessary to delay to prevent divorce. This is of course false, based on a liberal conception of the human person.
What was good enough in the past regarding these customs is good enough for REAL TRADITIONALISTS. When past customs are derided it's because we're dealing with people playing Sunday dress-up and role-playing, and engaging in extreme and willful self-delusion.
It is extremely disrespectful, insulting and manipulative to young women and to young men, to tell them they must wait until the age of 25 to marry. It deprives men of brides in the bloom of youthful innocence and beauty. wait is a temptation to sin. It deprives young women of their RIGHT. A Right that DOES NOT depend on parents or priests, but on their own choice. That is Catholic teaching, and those who deny it or systematically try to suppress it are departing from the religion.
Readiness for marriage doesn't depend on what's considered acceptable among professional suburbanites. Bourgeois people tend to disapprove of marriage before those ages and it has absolutely nothing to do with maturity or immaturity. It has to do with the customs of a feminist society, which bourgeois people slavishly follow.
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I know these suggestions are well meaning and motivated by love
I don't believe that they are. They are motivated by a desire for conformity, and to impose conformity. I suspect there is often some jealousy and malice involved too. That is why young lovers are disparaged.
Older women see a young woman who marries as being "tricked" into committing her best years. Subconsciously, at least, there is a bad motivation behind the scorn.
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I have to agree with PW. I believe Sophia should be 20 years old by now or just about to be 20 years old. She can, if she has the right man, indeed start getting ready for marriage.
Lord knows I've had my past with sɛҳuąƖ sins but Sophia is at the right age for marriage.
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I agree with you Tele as well. 25/26 and 27/28 is too late to start having children. Women should marry young so that there can be large families. Also having to wait is unnatural anyway and it eventually forces women (and men) into "shacking up" like white trash, if you will, with unmarried couples living together.
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It's absolutely clear what the Catholic position is on this.
"It is better to marry than burn."
A young woman who is by nature by God's design ready for marriage had better marry or alternatively live a chaste life.
But the liberal, presumptuous, phony position is this:
"It's better to wait until you're ready. If you fall, or go through a "rebellious phase" or an "exploratory phase" - that's part of learning "maturity." You can always go to confession and change your life when you're ready for marriage, and in our modern society it's customary to wait until the age of 25, that's what educated, upper middle class women do."
Can anyone doubt that is the thought process?
And the poor gullible fathers! Who delude themselves, until it's too late, then sheepishly accept the hard reality - and make excuses for themselves and their daughters.
I think at some level, when it comes to socially acceptable paths, that critical thinking and rationality completely collapses and is replaced with a totally irrational view that encourages mindless conformity.
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I've noticed this prejudice among fathers at Church that they want the man to have money so that their daughter doesn't "have to have a hard life." With that philosophy it is just as hard to marry a "Trad" woman as a secular woman.
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I've noticed this prejudice among fathers at Church that they want the man to have money so that their daughter doesn't "have to have a hard life." With that philosophy it is just as hard to marry a "Trad" woman as a secular woman.
Many would rather that their daughters not marry when they're young, because they have a perverse jealous of a male suitor, and see his existence as an insult and infringment. Many are seriously affected by indifferentism and would rather their daughter marry someone with money who is nominally Catholic than marry a man who is serious about the Faith. And not just fathers. It would not surprise me to find such an attitude among clergy.
And of course the worst thing of all is the delusional pedestalizing they engage in. Such behavior only deprives devout men of opportunities for marriage, it doesn't change their daughter's nature, it does nothing that can seriously hinder the bad men. If they deride and shut out the good men who seek to court their daughters, and if the devout men out of false scruples imposed in the confessional accept that rejection, then only men who don't care about morality will be seeking after your daughter.
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It's absolutely clear what the Catholic position is on this.
"It is better to marry than burn."
A young woman who is by nature by God's design ready for marriage had better marry or alternatively live a chaste life.
But the liberal, presumptuous, phony position is this:
"It's better to wait until you're ready. If you fall, or go through a "rebellious phase" or an "exploratory phase" - that's part of learning "maturity." You can always go to confession and change your life when you're ready for marriage, and in our modern society it's customary to wait until the age of 25, that's what educated, upper middle class women do."
Can anyone doubt that is the thought process?
And the poor gullible fathers! Who delude themselves, until it's too late, then sheepishly accept the hard reality - and make excuses for themselves and their daughters.
I think at some level, when it comes to socially acceptable paths, that critical thinking and rationality completely collapses and is replaced with a totally irrational view that encourages mindless conformity.
We can't forget the yearly trip to the gynecologist for The Pill Rx too. I'm not saying all these young women are fornicating but often the parents will often make sure she is on the pill and she will go right along with them taking it.
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We can't forget the yearly trip to the gynecologist for The Pill Rx too. I'm not saying all these young women are fornicating but often the parents will often make sure she is on the pill and she will go right along with them taking it.
The doctors can think up medical pretexts to get the girls on them.
I'm afraid you're right there are many parents who will reject the religion when push comes to shove with the modern world. There's a reason the Church and traditionalism is in this bad of straits.
This post of Angelia gives us a hint at how bad things are in her part of the world, and while the appearance might be better in America, one can doubt that the reality is so much better.
what Fr. Chazal say about Modernism in the chapels is very true. In my own chapel we have regular faithfuls that comes to Mass not dressed properly. Women wear slacks and no sleeves and no veils. Even their daughters do not wear veils. We have people that comes because their parents comes. You can find young man sitting in the sacristy away from public sight, either texting on hp or dozing off during sermons.
Fr. Couture told me that our chapel has the most number of children in the Asia Region. You think that is great news..until you know that there is one 1 family with 10 kids and the rest of the family are mostly 1 or 2, the closest is a 5.
Fr. Couture had said to me personally that what we want is quality not quantity. No wonder we barely have any families having big families. It is simply not encouraged.
The coordinator told me to seek the advice of the priest for having so many kids. Her comment was, we don't have to be like rabbits.
Well, in Phillipines even wives of Knight of Our Lady has their tube ligated.
Like what Fr. Chazal says people are not having kids anymore. This is not people in general but in Traditional Catholic Circles.
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We can't forget the yearly trip to the gynecologist for The Pill Rx too. I'm not saying all these young women are fornicating but often the parents will often make sure she is on the pill and she will go right along with them taking it.
The doctors can think up medical pretexts to get the girls on them.
I'm afraid you're right there are many parents who will reject the religion when push comes to shove with the modern world. There's a reason the Church and traditionalism is in this bad of straits.
This post of Angelia gives us a hint at how bad things are in her part of the world, and while the appearance might be better in America, one can doubt that the reality is so much better.
what Fr. Chazal say about Modernism in the chapels is very true. In my own chapel we have regular faithfuls that comes to Mass not dressed properly. Women wear slacks and no sleeves and no veils. Even their daughters do not wear veils. We have people that comes because their parents comes. You can find young man sitting in the sacristy away from public sight, either texting on hp or dozing off during sermons.
Fr. Couture told me that our chapel has the most number of children in the Asia Region. You think that is great news..until you know that there is one 1 family with 10 kids and the rest of the family are mostly 1 or 2, the closest is a 5.
Fr. Couture had said to me personally that what we want is quality not quantity. No wonder we barely have any families having big families. It is simply not encouraged.
The coordinator told me to seek the advice of the priest for having so many kids. Her comment was, we don't have to be like rabbits.
Well, in Phillipines even wives of Knight of Our Lady has their tube ligated.
Like what Fr. Chazal says people are not having kids anymore. This is not people in general but in Traditional Catholic Circles.
I don't mean to say large family equals no birth control and zero or a small family equals birth control. I've had several miscarriages myself and I know a women in her 30s who had 11 children and just had a tubal ligation. That said though the group I've seen where most have large families often with more than 10 children has been in plain circles, not Catholic ones.
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I know these suggestions are well meaning and motivated by love
I don't believe that they are. They are motivated by a desire for conformity, and to impose conformity. I suspect there is often some jealousy and malice involved too. That is why young lovers are disparaged.
Older women see a young woman who marries as being "tricked" into committing her best years. Subconsciously, at least, there is a bad motivation behind the scorn.
I don't want to judge the intent of another, especially women on this board. I want them to do the same for me.
I think people get so caught up in the worldly idea that a certain worldly maturity is required to be a good spouse, when in fact the opposite it is true. The older a woman gets, the more time she lives independently, the harder it will be for her to accept a traditional marriage role, and even harder to see the beauty and the protection in it.
The vulnerability of young girls at "college age" is beneficial to those who marry, because they don't ever have to stop being vulnerable. They don't ever have to become desensitized to evil or hardened to the world. They have also had less time to become materialistic and selfish. Moms who have their first baby at an older age often seem to be incredibly more resistant to a home-centered life. They want to cling to the level of independence they've developed. They are used to running around and having an full social agendas. I don't feel like a very young mother, but being pregnant at 21 was considered young to the world. It was young enough that I didn't fall in love with any sort of life besides my baby. Of course, I wish my time leading up to her was spent differently then it was, but age wise 21 (22 when I delivered) was beyond ready to have a baby.
Sophia has shown that she is already negatively influenced by the world. She said elsewhere there was nothing wrong with women wanting a career and a family. She has stated she struggles greatly with chastity. Unless she has interest in a religious life, marriage could be the very best thing. I cringe when I hear someone suggest "finding out who you are" ...because usually it's a nice way of saying "figure out how not to need a man first."
It would be next to impossible for a girl to go through college and not be at least somehow influenced by the dating scene. Sophia has weakness in her faith, and she longs for affection from a man, to pretend she can get through college without dating and/or sɛҳuąƖ sin is ridiculous and more importantly, unnecessary. A girl like that needs a husband who loves her enough to care about her soul and protect her from the world. Every girl deserves that. When did the world stop caring about the souls of women??
The tears that Blessed Mother must cry for this neglect for the fragility of young girls will eventually drown us all.
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There's one more point that's extremely important, and is often overlooked.
People tend to follow the examples around them.
In the past young women were not discouraged from marrying - and - were expected to marry, not to senselessly delay, or turn down good offers.
The result of that is that young women were competing for potential husbands. This encouraged men to try to act as good husband material. These tendencies reinforced each other, and reinforced marriage.
Now the young man looking for marriage is mocked by young women, young women who will laugh and say they aren't ready.
And what is the example that most young women are giving to their peers today? It is not good, not good at all.
Today, young women compete for those not interested in representing themselves as potential husbands and fathers, but rather for those who deliberately cultivate the image of the "bad boy" - to put it in crass terms.
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That said though the group I've seen where most have large families often with more than 10 children has been in plain circles, not Catholic ones.
I don't mean to give the impression we should judge individual families. But statistically we can look at a parish and get an impression of what is probably happening.
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That's a very beautiful post PW. You're really a very effective writer, I wish my posts were as eloquent and convincing.
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I am not saying that you are doing this, but it is what usually happens:
When two wonderful people meet, it is the girl who is really overjoyed at finding a unique guy and afraid of losing him. So she does anything in her power, do anything he says, just to keep him. After a while the guy realizes it, knows well how the girl is attached and learn a very bad thing: that he can ask for anything he wants, and none of his demands will be refused. Males have an instinct that tells them when a woman reaches this degree of fear of loss.
But it is just when the girl loses all her individuality and personal boundaries that the guy leaves her for a one that is a challenge. Then the girl feels empty, as if someone has sucked all her energy and then threw her away. Just the way you treat a bottle of cola: drink the juice, throw it in the bin.
If a guy really loves, he will respect her boundaries.
You're a smart one, Spouse. :cry:
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That's a very beautiful post PW. You're really a very effective writer, I wish my posts were as eloquent and convincing.
Thank you. It's very kind of you to say that, although I'm not sure it is truly effective to very many people.
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That's a very beautiful post PW. You're really a very effective writer, I wish my posts were as eloquent and convincing.
Thank you. It's very kind of you to say that, although I'm not sure it is truly effective to very many people.
It will matter to good-willed people who read it, that's what's important.
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I read the first post again and a rather general question came to my mind: does experiencing carnal temptations from very a young age mean one is molested in the past?
Acute sɛҳuąƖ awareness at a young age CAN mean there has been a form of exposure to nudity, sɛҳuąƖ material or behaviors-- OR it can just mean children find a part of their body that feels good and act upon it before they are formed to understand that these urges are to be controlled.
My advice to you, Sophia, is to get to a priest for advice. I will pray for you.