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Author Topic: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic  (Read 4321 times)

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Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2018, 08:21:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Miseremini on July 12, 2018, 08:19:53 PM
    The bible doesn't belong to Caesar.
    In Canada there are several ways of AFFIRMING you will tell the truth .
    1. You may be asked to swear on a Bible but if you decline, they will ask if you affirm to tell the truth.
    2. Muslims are asked to swear on the Koran
    By swearing on a book, you are DECLARING that you believe what is in that book,
    So why would a Catholic swear on a protestant bible? (Our courts actually have both).
    You wouldn't expect a Muslim to swear on a bible, so no Catholic should swear on any book they don't believe in.
    Right On! Excellent Points you have made!
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    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #31 on: July 12, 2018, 08:40:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Hank Igitur Orate Fratre on July 12, 2018, 07:22:52 PM
    Sure they can "affirm" but that's not the same thing. The courts don't ask people "Do you affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
    It may differ from state to state, but as far back as I can recollect, in my state the court asks, "Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?" 

    If you respond "I do," the court doesn't ask you whether you swear or affirm. I've been a plaintiff, a defendant and have served on a jury, and this is what I've experienced. 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #32 on: July 12, 2018, 08:40:56 PM »
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    • Miseremini,
    Hanc asserted it was wrong to swear on the Bible.  I say it’s not. If you want to argue that one should affirm instead of swear, that’s a different argument.  I still say it’s biblical to be able to swear.  The scriptural commentary proves this.
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    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #33 on: July 12, 2018, 08:52:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 12, 2018, 08:40:56 PM
    Miseremini,
    Hanc asserted it was wrong to swear on the Bible.  I say it’s not. If you want to argue that one should affirm instead of swear, that’s a different argument.  I still say it’s biblical to be able to swear.  The scriptural commentary proves this.
    Maybe I'm reading to much into this, but if Hanc is right, wouldn't it be wrong to take vows before the Blessed Sacrament? Far more profound than swearing over the Bible... and it's a very common practice amongst the religious...
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    Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #34 on: July 12, 2018, 08:54:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: St Ignatius on July 12, 2018, 08:40:06 PM
    It may differ from state to state, but as far back as I can recollect, in my state the court asks, "Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?"

    If you respond "I do," the court doesn't ask you whether you swear or affirm. I've been a plaintiff, a defendant and have served on a jury, and this is what I've experienced.
    Thank you for this useful information! Excellent points! Right On!
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #35 on: July 12, 2018, 09:22:43 PM »
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    • From the Ecclesiastical Dictionary 1900 page 502

    "An oath is a solemn affirmation in which we invoke the name of God, tacitly or explicitly, as witness to the truth of a statement.
    An oath is permissible in justice and in truth, when circuмstances are of sufficient importance.
    An oath should be taken "in truth, and in judgement, and in justice" (Jer.iv.2)"  that is to say, affirming with adequate motive a thing of which we are morally certain or promising what we actually mean to perform.
    Without these three conditions of integrity, namely, a solemn affirmation or promise, importance of matter, and equity of motive, an oath would unquestionably be disrespectful to God, and must therefore be a mortal or venial sin, according to the gravity of the circuмstances, or intention and opinion of the person taking the oath"

    Now if we have separation of church and state, why would the state require us to call upon Almighty God to witness what we are about to speak?  They've kicked Him out of state affairs so why should we put our souls in peril more severely by making an oath?
    In centuries past there was a large crucifix behind the judge, and when a man was condemned the judge said,"May God have mercy on your soul"    TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

    A Religious vow is totally different than an oath taken in court which is what this thread is about.
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    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #36 on: July 12, 2018, 10:41:39 PM »
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    • An oath taken in court, as a matter of the justice system, is important, just as the conclave oath taken by Cardinals is important.  They are not equal but are both vital for a functioning society.  
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