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Author Topic: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow  (Read 737 times)

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Offline Soubirous

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Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
« on: March 18, 2023, 08:01:10 AM »
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    • The Feast of St. Joseph is March 19th but since it falls on a Sunday this year, a lot of calendars have the observance moved to Monday, March 20th. Is this a modern adjustment, or is this the correct arrangement in those years when the dates occur together? Is anyone else befuddled as to which sequential day of the Novena it has been this past week?

    Re abstinence, the St. Joseph's Table has neither meat nor cheese but lots of pastries that use milk and eggs in the recipe. Is this another example of enculturation, or is it permitted and even encouraged because, well, St. Joseph?

    And Laetare Sunday. This is an occasion of liturgical joy, but in domestic life is there also a relaxation of Lenten restrictions? At least those restrictions one does observe beyond whichever recent iteration of laxist suggestions.

    Either way, I'm not about to cook up a storm or break out the steak and wine. Just pondering. This must be what happens to the mind and the stomach midway through the penitential season. :fryingpan: :cowboy:
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #1 on: March 18, 2023, 02:15:14 PM »
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    • I have heard that Sundays in Lent and Advent take precedence. For example: December 8, 2019 was a Sunday. That Sunday of Advent came ABOVE the Feast of the Immaculate Conception for being a Sunday in Advent and the feast was transferred to the next day.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #2 on: March 18, 2023, 04:15:04 PM »
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    • Happy St Joseph’s Day
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    Offline Marcellinus

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #3 on: March 18, 2023, 04:27:44 PM »
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    • The Sundays of Lent are privileged, thus St. Joseph's Feast this year must be transferred to the next free day which is Monday.  This is not modernist, it is true even on the pre-1955 calendar.

    There are no Lenten restrictions on Sundays in Lent as far as fasting and abstinence.  You may break out the steak and wine on ANY Sunday in Lent.  This is been the case for nearly 200 years.

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    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #4 on: March 18, 2023, 10:53:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marcellinus on March 18, 2023, 04:27:44 PM
    The Sundays of Lent are privileged, thus St. Joseph's Feast this year must be transferred to the next free day which is Monday.  This is not modernist, it is true even on the pre-1955 calendar.

    There are no Lenten restrictions on Sundays in Lent as far as fasting and abstinence.  You may break out the steak and wine on ANY Sunday in Lent.  This is been the case for nearly 200 years.

    That's not entirely correct in the traditional sense.  There is no fast on Sunday but you're still required to abstain every day in Lent.  I only know this because I used to think the same thing and found out that wasn't the case, again for the traditional Lenten practice years before N.O.  Some people equate fasting and abstinence as the same thing but they are not. 

    Not saying this is your case but I always laugh and shake my head at those professing trads who hate N.O. but do the N.O. fasting and abstinence rules because it's way easier.  It's like c'mon people.
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    Offline Marcellinus

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #5 on: March 19, 2023, 04:44:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: EWPJ on March 18, 2023, 10:53:48 PM
    That's not entirely correct in the traditional sense.  There is no fast on Sunday but you're still required to abstain every day in Lent.  I only know this because I used to think the same thing and found out that wasn't the case, again for the traditional Lenten practice years before N.O.  Some people equate fasting and abstinence as the same thing but they are not. 

    Not saying this is your case but I always laugh and shake my head at those professing trads who hate N.O. but do the N.O. fasting and abstinence rules because it's way easier.  It's like c'mon people.
    Abstinence means not eating meat at any meal during a day. 

    Please site a reference from the last 200 years stating that all the days of Lent are days of abstinence in any English speaking country. 
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #6 on: March 19, 2023, 06:00:48 AM »
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    • This year Lent started on Wednesday 22nd February and will end on 8th April. 

    If you count the days inclusive that means Lent would total 44 days. But Lent is not 44 days but the symbolic number of 40. 

    That is one reason Sundays are not to be counted either as days of fast or of abstinence. The other reason is that Sunday is the Day of the Resurrection from the dead and so we do not fast abstain or mourn on that day
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    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #7 on: March 19, 2023, 07:57:17 AM »
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    • Sorry I’m a new convert. Do Laetare  and Gaudate both mean Rejoice? And do they just use different words to differentiate the days? 
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    Offline jersey60

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #8 on: March 19, 2023, 09:53:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: HeavyHanded on March 19, 2023, 07:57:17 AM
    Sorry I’m a new convert. Do Laetare  and Gaudate both mean Rejoice? And do they just use different words to differentiate the days?
    Both of those terms mean rejoicing, Gaudate for Advent & Laetare for the Lenten season
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    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #9 on: March 19, 2023, 11:33:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: Marcellinus on March 19, 2023, 04:44:41 AM
    Abstinence means not eating meat at any meal during a day.

    Please site a reference from the last 200 years stating that all the days of Lent are days of abstinence in any English speaking country.

    Here you go...4th paragraph. It says all days for Lent and mentions no break for Sundays.  There are other places I've seen this mentioned as well but that was the fast source I had handy.  If I have more time I'll site more references to this if requested.  I do know they relaxed things in the years leading up to N.O. so I think that's where the confusion comes.  

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm


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    Offline Marcellinus

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #10 on: March 19, 2023, 12:30:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: EWPJ on March 19, 2023, 11:33:21 AM
    Here you go...4th paragraph. It says all days for Lent and mentions no break for Sundays.  There are other places I've seen this mentioned as well but that was the fast source I had handy.  If I have more time I'll site more references to this if requested.  I do know they relaxed things in the years leading up to N.O. so I think that's where the confusion comes. 

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm
    While the Catholic Encyclopedia is neither canon law nor moral theology, even it is referring to FAST days, not abstinence. 
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    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #11 on: March 19, 2023, 01:16:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marcellinus on March 19, 2023, 04:44:41 AM
    Abstinence means not eating meat at any meal during a day.

    Please site a reference from the last 200 years stating that all the days of Lent are days of abstinence in any English speaking country.

    English-speaking countries are almost all (or formerly controlled by) Protestant-majority countries. What has happened in the last 200 years, give or take, is that there has been a series of dispensations and indults conceding to local practice so that Catholic dietary rules would not seem so onerous in that social context. The Catholic Encyclopedia item linked above, even back in 1909, leaves a LOT of room for subjective interpretation according to self-assessment of personal circuмstances. Beyond the roughly 1962 baseline, traditionalist Catholics seem to be sort of DIY in terms of how far back to go in picking what degree of fast-and-abstinence to observe, not only for Lent but also Advent, Ember Days, and other more obscure fasts during the liturgical year.

    That's why I posed these questions, if there are folks here keeping to a more austere regimen (for whatever personal reasons, e.g., a special intention, reparation, aid in discernment, spiritual purgation, and so on). What is working for me so far is to take it a day at a time with more focus on prayer and reflection.
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    Online Miseremini

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #12 on: March 19, 2023, 01:54:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on March 19, 2023, 06:00:48 AM
    This year Lent started on Wednesday 22nd February and will end on 8th April.

    If you count the days inclusive that means Lent would total 44 days. But Lent is not 44 days but the symbolic number of 40.

    That is one reason Sundays are not to be counted either as days of fast or of abstinence. The other reason is that Sunday is the Day of the Resurrection from the dead and so we do not fast abstain or mourn on that day
    Sorry I couldn't follow your math. Lent is six weeks plus the first four days starting on Ash Wednesday.
    6 weeks X 7 days = 42 days plus the 4 - 46 days less the 6 Sundays = 40 days
    OR
    6 weeks X 6 days (not counting Sundays) = 36 days plus the first four days = 40 days
    The 40 days represent the 40 days Christ spent in the desert and the 40 hours between His death and Resurrection.
    Not sure if lent represents the 40 days between the Resurrection and Ascension.
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    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #13 on: March 19, 2023, 02:02:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marcellinus on March 19, 2023, 12:30:42 PM
    While the Catholic Encyclopedia is neither canon law nor moral theology, even it is referring to FAST days, not abstinence.

    Oops.  Yeah, sorry about that I was just waking up and got lost in my own head about fast vs abstinence and thought I pulled up the abstinence tab and not the fast tab. Here's the correct tab...(under the Lent section around the middle sentence)

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm

    I know there's other sources that say what I'm saying as I know the above source doesn't get too specific but it at least shows that it was a thing and not just something I made up.  I'll just have to do some digging later for the more definitive sources.  Over the years I've read many things and don't always remember where I read or saw them or where to find them again.  The CE is not canon law or moral theology but it does pull from those sources as it is a reference tool.  Either way sorry for my blunder about the wrong tab.  
     
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Happy St. Joseph's Day & Laetare Sunday tomorrow
    « Reply #14 on: March 19, 2023, 04:00:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Miseremini on March 19, 2023, 01:54:48 PM
    Sorry I couldn't follow your math. Lent is six weeks plus the first four days starting on Ash Wednesday.
    6 weeks X 7 days = 42 days plus the 4 - 46 days less the 6 Sundays = 40 days
    OR
    6 weeks X 6 days (not counting Sundays) = 36 days plus the first four days = 40 days
    The 40 days represent the 40 days Christ spent in the desert and the 40 hours between His death and Resurrection.
    Not sure if lent represents the 40 days between the Resurrection and Ascension.
    I was counting days. I understood that Lent was 40 days (not counting in weeks). Also the calendar I am using is one produced by Fr Eldracher for Australia, where days of fast are all the weekdays and Saturdays of Lent. The days of Fast are coloured purple and Sundays are coloured Yellow. But I just read that a minute ago. I already knew that the 40 days do not include Sundays.
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