Author Topic: Social Relationships before Vatican 2 (Read 2902 times)

Matto · « **Reply #30 on:** December 13, 2013, 04:39:52 PM »

Quote from: Father Cekada

"You can make it to Heaven without the TLM; you can't make it to Heaven without Catholic doctrine."

This is an interesting quote from Father Cekada. I thought he believed that heathens can go to heaven who are ignorant of Catholic doctrine by a baptism of desire. Maybe I was mistaken.

Pelele · « **Reply #31 on:** December 13, 2013, 08:51:41 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: Father Cekada
"You can make it to Heaven without the TLM; you can't make it to Heaven without Catholic doctrine."

This is an interesting quote from Father Cekada. I thought he believed that heathens can go to heaven who are ignorant of Catholic doctrine by a baptism of desire. Maybe I was mistaken.

That's what i was going to say!

He believes the same thing for heretics and schismatics.

Immaculata001 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 14, 2013, 05:07:54 PM »

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So before Vatican 2, and well throughout the history of Catholicism and even in the Old Testament i suppose, Catholics would not "socialize" with non-Catholics [...]

That part is not really true. Even in Catholic nations -- Argentina, the Philippines, France, Italy -- socializing would depend on class and proximity. In France, there have been upper class Protestant people who associated with Catholics; on the other hand, socializing wouldn't extend to religious ceremonies or anything forbidden (secret societies, etc). For instance, my godmother was raised Anglican. Her father was a prominent diplomat. Her family wasn't shunned and she did convert (although she has reverted).

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nor with people living in public sin?

This part is generally true, although people would not be aggressive and cruel in their "shunning." People just wouldn't visit people at their homes who were living in sin or invite them out, etc; sometimes close family would try to speak with them about situations in private. For those of us from non-Western countries, this is still the case.

I think it's important not to "shun" people based on arrogance, malice, and pride. I myself have had to distance myself from a lot of people and things because I feel morally polluted: I don't watch movies or most tv, listen to new music, go out on dates, etc.

Part of what's impacted me is working with youth and realizing how truly perverse and corrupt they are and how the world is becoming -- I don't just feel revulsion, but sadness. There are BILLIONS of people in the world that would choose lust before love, greed before satisfaction, war before peace. There are people who have no idea what love is and hate God and live without hope.

I've just decided I don't want to be a part of it. It means that I do choose to limit interactions with people. My life is consequently very simple and I'm grateful for it.

Mabel · « **Reply #33 on:** December 14, 2013, 06:01:30 PM »

Quote from: Immaculata001

Quote
So before Vatican 2, and well throughout the history of Catholicism and even in the Old Testament i suppose, Catholics would not "socialize" with non-Catholics [...]

That part is not really true. Even in Catholic nations -- Argentina, the Philippines, France, Italy -- socializing would depend on class and proximity. In France, there have been upper class Protestant people who associated with Catholics; on the other hand, socializing wouldn't extend to religious ceremonies or anything forbidden (secret societies, etc). For instance, my godmother was raised Anglican. Her father was a prominent diplomat. Her family wasn't shunned and she did convert (although she has reverted).

Quote
nor with people living in public sin?

This part is generally true, although people would not be aggressive and cruel in their "shunning." People just wouldn't visit people at their homes who were living in sin or invite them out, etc; sometimes close family would try to speak with them about situations in private. For those of us from non-Western countries, this is still the case.

I think it's important not to "shun" people based on arrogance, malice, and pride. I myself have had to distance myself from a lot of people and things because I feel morally polluted: I don't watch movies or most tv, listen to new music, go out on dates, etc.

Part of what's impacted me is working with youth and realizing how truly perverse and corrupt they are and how the world is becoming -- I don't just feel revulsion, but sadness. There are BILLIONS of people in the world that would choose lust before love, greed before satisfaction, war before peace. There are people who have no idea what love is and hate God and live without hope.

I've just decided I don't want to be a part of it. It means that I do choose to limit interactions with people. My life is consequently very simple and I'm grateful for it.

This was a really great post.

I think the people we can't quite get away from are people to whom we might have an unknown mission towards.

It takes a lot of skill and grace to steer talk away from the immoral but if you can just bend them a little, in the smallest way towards the right path, then you have done a great good.

And you are correct, Catholics have always avoided visiting homes of scandal or inviting both parties together in such a way that would appear to give approval.

When you are living the faith, most bad people will avoid you. Light hurts the eyes of those who chose to live in complete darkness.

Frances · « **Reply #34 on:** December 14, 2013, 07:36:38 PM »

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When you are living the faith, most bad people will avoid you. Light hurts the eyes of those who chose to live in complete darkness.

People of bad will, these will avoid you. Sometimes those who lead bad lives, but whose hearts are still long for God are attracted to Catholics. Be sure not to push them away. God may want to use you as His means of this soul's conversion. For this reason, I do not cut myself off from all non-Catholics. Don't be the lazy servant who buried his master's talent in the ground! This is assuming you are not personally tempted to sin by such people. If you are, then by all means, separate yourself from them lest both be lost.