Author Topic: Catholicism versus Revivalism  (Read 655 times)

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Offline Telesphorus

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Catholicism versus Revivalism
« on: November 03, 2012, 10:12:44 AM »
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  • Being born within 15 years of the start of Vatican II, there were many people when I was young who were old who still had the Catholic Faith that they were taught long ago, and for whom Vatican II had been a relatively recent event in their lives.  For example my Great Grandmother.  Some such people are still alive.  For example, the 92 year old priest who gave my father Last Rites a few months ago.

    Now these people remember the Traditional Church.  They remember the Traditional Faith.

    And what they remember is a great deal different than the typical "trad chapel experience" - that is quite evident.

    When "traditionalism" and its social group become ends in themselves - it's a form of sentimental revivalism.  Of role playing.  Of dress up.  Of personality cults.

    Not the Catholic parishes, communities of the past.  

    How can what was had in the past be restored in any sense?

    By evangelization.  By strong rhetoric.  But most of all - by de-emphasizing the social club atmosphere of traditionalism.  

    The problem with the Novus Ordo is the lack of sanctification, however, many trads have this experience:

    "I used to think trads would be loving and kind and live according to the Faith. Fr. A told me they sleep around, divorce and generally are as bad if not worse than N.O.s. Boy was that a shock! He also told me not to tell them anything about my personal life because the gossip would spread like wildfire.
    "
    .

    A Sunday dress up club with a cultish mentality and no serious application of Catholic morality - this is the problem of neo-traditionalism.  

    There really are two kinds of trads, and it's very easily discernible.  

    There are the kind caught up in the social maneuvering of the chapel, and there the kind that remind me of the older Catholics I knew growing up.

    And it seems to me the latter kind of people tend to be relatively unpopular.




    Offline s2srea

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    Catholicism versus Revivalism
    « Reply #1 on: November 03, 2012, 10:24:08 AM »
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  • Wow- I'm surprised at how much I agree with you lately Tele. Great post. There is, I'm sure, a reason for all of this. A good friend once told me that it had to do with virtues and vice. That many Trads build up the intellectual virtues, yet forget the three greatest ones (Faith, Hope, and especially forget Charity).


    Offline Marlelar

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    Catholicism versus Revivalism
    « Reply #2 on: November 03, 2012, 11:06:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Fr. A told me they sleep around, divorce and generally are as bad if not worse than N.O.s. Boy was that a shock! He also told me not to tell them anything about my personal life because the gossip would spread like wildfire.
    " [/i].

    A Sunday dress up club with a cultish mentality and no serious application of Catholic morality - this is the problem of neo-traditionalism.  

    There really are two kinds of trads, and it's very easily discernible.  

    There are the kind caught up in the social maneuvering of the chapel, and there the kind that remind me of the older Catholics I knew growing up.

    And it seems to me the latter kind of people tend to be relatively unpopular.



    This has definitely NOT been my experience.  I only found the "cultish" dress up mentality in the NO, I've only found gossips in the NO.  The traditional Catholics that I have met are quite serious about their faith, are thoughtful and charitable people. Are they perfect?  No, they have the usual human weaknesses and frailties but by and large they are good faithful people and I feel very blessed to know them.

    Marsha

    Offline s2srea

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    Catholicism versus Revivalism
    « Reply #3 on: November 03, 2012, 11:18:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar


    This has definitely NOT been my experience.  I only found the "cultish" dress up mentality in the NO, I've only found gossips in the NO.  The traditional Catholics that I have met are quite serious about their faith, are thoughtful and charitable people. Are they perfect?  No, they have the usual human weaknesses and frailties but by and large they are good faithful people and I feel very blessed to know them.

    Marsha


    Marsha, I can see how you feel this way. I had similar thoughts not long ago, but a closer look reveals that there is a lack of Charity among traditional Catholics, despite our attempts to see the best in our neighbor.

    Telesphorous wasn't saying we expect trads to be perfect (though we would hope so), but that there is a clear issue in trad chapels right now- and its not confined to SSPX chapels- I've heard the same of parishoners who attend CMRI and FSSP chapels as well.

    Offline Raoul76

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    Catholicism versus Revivalism
    « Reply #4 on: November 04, 2012, 12:57:06 AM »
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  • S2Srea said:
    Quote
    Telesphorous wasn't saying we expect trads to be perfect (though we would hope so), but that there is a clear issue in trad chapels right now- and its not confined to SSPX chapels- I've heard the same of parishoners who attend CMRI and FSSP chapels as well.


    I have never met better people than the trads that I'd call friends and acquaintances. I feel at home almost nowhere but my church.

    Not once have I met anyone in the Novus Ordo that I can get along with for sustained amounts of time -- these are, almost without exception, brittle and proud people who think that they are justified in repaying the smallest imagined slight with turning their backs on you completely, or if they can't ostracize you completely, making your life miserable. The trads I know suffer constantly from Novus Ordo-ites. The stories are almost nonstop. The last heresy in the world is to be against the Vatican II church; this is to be judgmental, cruel, unsympathetic, harsh, etc.

    I cannot speak for the SSPX, but I can speak for my CMRI chapel, and even for my Facebook circle. The trad world is certainly not perfect -- the Church was never perfect in its members -- and some people are lukewarm, but the group I have found for myself is great; once you get past expecting absolute perfection and learn to be patient and forgiving.

    I'd agree there are two types of trads, just as I'd agree there are two types of Catholic in general; dead members and living members.


    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS


     

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