Author Topic: The reason for the never-ending modesty debates  (Read 2484 times)

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Offline Telesphorus

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The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
« on: October 20, 2012, 11:35:31 AM »
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  • There's a reason why trads can't agree on this, and it's not because of the extremists.

    There have always been negligent and even bad priests who have authorized sinful behavior.

    What is different is that there has not always been the overwhelming social force of feminist liberalism with its particular emphasis on justifying immodesty in dress.

    Now in the past that would usually have been more of a private matter.  But in modern times it becomes public, in particular, with regards to dress.  And in the past it would not have been to the advantage of clerics to indulge liberalism in dress.

    For those who feel "trapped" in traditionalism, with an attachment to Tradition but a desire for popularity and esteem in the world, there will always be a conflict, no matter how well the matter is explained, they're always going to be pushing the envelope.

    Some will develop legalistic ideas about what constitutes modesty.  

    Others will use relativistic arguments.

    Unfortunately, the liberals among trad clerics have found they can enhance their popularity by indulging laxity.  Especially since the rich tend to have the strongest incentive to justify their laxity, and give the most money.

    We should not be afraid to be outspoken about minimum standards of dress.  And by minimum it should be something that the priests and moral theologians of the first half the 20th Century could agree on.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #1 on: October 20, 2012, 11:44:05 AM »
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  • eh, I should have edited this better.  

    Quote
    Now in the past that would usually have been more of a private matter.


    What I mean is, in the past, corrupt priests negligently permitting or authorizing sinful behavior would have been less publicly visible, because public social standards were generally conservative.

    Although I'm sure people in France noticed the small families in Church, especially among the upper classes.


    Offline PereJoseph

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #2 on: October 20, 2012, 12:26:05 PM »
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  • Well said.

    Offline bowler

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #3 on: October 20, 2012, 02:26:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
     
    We should not be afraid to be outspoken about minimum standards of dress.  And by minimum it should be something that the priests and moral theologians of the first half the 20th Century could agree on.


    The bad fashions started just after Our Lady spoke of them coming, at Fatima in 1917.

    Offline insidebaseball

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #4 on: October 20, 2012, 06:50:11 PM »
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  • Don't you think modesty can be found somewhere in the middle of the extremes.  Lets say that birka's represent the "animal type" ownership of the islamist, and modern western culture represents the "animal type" passions of the devil.  In most cases if about 2 inches of material were added to clothing, both length and girth, alot of clothing could be acceptable.  As far as fashion or style is concerned now thats another can of worms.  


    Offline Sede Catholic

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 07:23:22 PM »
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  • Women were almost entirely covered from head to toe, and their entire arms were also covered, for most of the last two thousand years.
    The Christian period of history.

    That proper Catholic modesty only really stopped in the twentieth century.

    The century of Apostasy should not be used as a guide for how women should dress.

    Women should dress today as modestly as they did in the past.

    Anything else is moral laxity.




    Offline insidebaseball

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 07:39:42 PM »
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  • True Sede, modesty in dress has fallen off to a shocking degree.  Most of these discussions remind me of a black preacher who will always get alot of amens from his audience.  I think modern fashion is an effect of the loss of faith, and not the cause.  So unless we are willing to do something to convert folks thru our actions then words are meaningless.  Any trained monkey can repeat what he just read.  Thats what college is for.

    Offline Sede Catholic

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #7 on: October 23, 2012, 02:49:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: insidebaseball
     ...I think modern fashion is an effect of the loss of faith, and not the cause.


    Yes, it is the loss of faith which has led to the loss of true Catholic modesty among Catholic women.


    Offline shin

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 03:07:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: Sede Catholic
    Women were almost entirely covered from head to toe, and their entire arms were also covered, for most of the last two thousand years.
    The Christian period of history.

    That proper Catholic modesty only really stopped in the twentieth century.

    The century of Apostasy should not be used as a guide for how women should dress.

    Women should dress today as modestly as they did in the past.

    Anything else is moral laxity.





    What it is like to live as Christians in a Christian society we are completely cut off from, and floating freely in a world of illusions instead.

    But at least, the information on what it is to live this Christian life still exists, though it has to be carefully searched for, rather like archaelogists sifting through the ruins -- or ever so rarely found, in lives, lived by the most devout.
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline Sede Catholic

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #9 on: October 26, 2012, 12:17:14 PM »
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  • Guidance on how to live as Catholics should live, can be found in the lives of the Saints.

    We should read the lives of the Saints, and then try to live like them.

    Offline lauraelizabeth

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 10:18:07 AM »
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  • Yes. Reading the lives of the saints is sooo so important. When we read about their lives then things like clothes become so trivial. I can't even say I've spent $20 on clothes in the last five or six months. I just stopped buying clothes altogether and I never have problems with modesty (though even before I stopped buying clothes completely...all of my clothes came from verrry cheap thrift stores or were given to me hahaha). If something in my closet is immodest then I just take it apart and use the cloth for housework headcoverings or another piece of clothing (and I'm not a great seamstress either)! Really, it's NOT difficult to dress modestly. Most of the people in my school either thought I was a mennonite or a muslim because they are not used to catholics dressing that way (which is very sad). BUT...no worries because I corrected them fast hahaha =) Even though I now dress pretty plain I think I have more confidence and comfort in my looks than the vast majority of the girls in my school who dress like....ladies of the night  :facepalm: If anyone needs skirts/dresses I can even send you some (compliments of me =) because I have about thirteen or more which I think is excessive.....


    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    The reason for the never-ending modesty debates
    « Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 03:30:25 PM »
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  • People often think of modesty as spending lavishly on clothes when it is not like that at all. Part of being modest is also being simple in dress.


     

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