Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: jmid on June 09, 2010, 06:27:32 PM
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I am not able to listen to this. Do they give their real names, or is this Mystery Young Lady and Mystery Young Man?
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I think the whole mindset of Catholics moving away to some kind of Catholic oasis is the utopain dream with a Catholic twist.
Yeah, it'd be great if three quarters of the town or city in which you lived was traditional Catholic. Problem is, a lot of Catholics seem to think that moving to such a place is going to make them, and their families, into pious Catholics. In reality, though, some people who do so then get to feeling all safe and secure about their salvation, and before they know it, they're living not too differently from the pagans in the next city.
I would love to be near a large traditional Catholic church, but what about the rest of the world that we are supposed to be the light of? Hiding together somewhere until the big, bad world passes, strikes me as being suspiciously close to hiding that "light of the world" under the proverbial bushel. The same things that, in principal, people hope will protect their faith, become the same things that keep them from sharing it with anyone else by example.
One traditional priest once gave a very good sermon about something along those lines. In so many words, he said that getting to heaven was NOT an "each man for himself proposition".
People once thought Catholic schools would accomplish this miracle, too. Just look at the "Catholic" schools today! Now picture your Catholic oasis as pretty much a very large Catholic school, where everybody can attend. It really isn't much different. SOUNDS good. But then there's humanity, which always slides downward unless people actually fight the good fight... which is ironically what most of them move to such places to AVOID doing.
If we hide from the conflicts of the world, how are we doing more than simply hiding from the cross, or hiding from the scorn and the fight we'll face if we do our "gettin' holy" in a secular city somewhere else?
We all have a yellow streak running through us (thanks to original sin). Nobody wants to fight if they can take it easy. But there's nothing in the Bible about taking it easy, hiding from the conflict caused by our Faith, or all running off together and waiting for the rest of the world to just go up in smoke. That's no part of Catholicism I know of.
:nunchaku:
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Dulcamara said:
Nobody wants to fight if they can take it easy. But there's nothing in the Bible about taking it easy, hiding from the conflict caused by our Faith, or all running off together and waiting for the rest of the world to just go up in smoke.
There is no conflict caused by faith in the major urban centers. No one cares. Just try it out yourself, testify to your faith. I am pretty confrontational and as a former wannabe shock-filmmaker, I don't mind getting in faces. But no one is offended by my being a trad Catholic -- they just don't understand it. It's so foreign to the bulk of people at this point. Being a Catholic in itself is weird to many, so you can imagine how hard it is to explain trad Catholicism, and then sedevacantism! It's like trying to get someone to read a Hebrew translation of the Greek out of Latin. There are about three layers of disconnect.
People who move near trad chapels are not "running away" but simply want to be among their own. But there really isn't that much social interaction among us -- it's more just the comfort of knowing that the faith still exists.
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That's harsh, Dulc.
By and large, I don't think many go there to "run away" from anything. I'd say most go to large Trad areas for the school. Raising a Catholic family is hard. Toss in homeschooling and it might just be more than most can handle. So, what do you do? You make a choice. Send your children to a local school or move to where there is a Trad school. What would you do?
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Those interviews were horrible. The second one was positively evil, all three of them should be ashamed.
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Those interviews were horrible. The second one was positively evil, all three of them should be ashamed.
Are you going to offer some particulars to your criticisms?
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Yes, the second interview is pretty troubling.
Her complaints about the dress code were petty.
I thought the complaints about "puritanism" to be disturbing.
One thing that rings true is that the French tend to have bourgeois attitudes that are at once liberal and authoritarian, instead of simply following the Church teachings.
The first interview is not so bad. I thought the food talk was a bit much.
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Yes Caminus, the second one gets worse and worse.
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This girl is right, it's not like this in France -- although from what I have seen they dress like hobos at the French SSPX.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_xBRkJwRYCic/SR_N99DQ83I/AAAAAAAAIeE/HymVghVQSMs/s400/France_Lourdes2008_1026%20044.jpg
http://www.lemonde.fr/image/2007/07/09/575x385_1044144_0_728f_ill-933203-chardonnet.jpg
What is the state of this girl's faith now? Did she drop out of trad Catholicism?
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I would say this girl suffers from major intellectual pride. That became apparent when she talked about how she only stuck with the school out of defiance, just so they couldn't kick her out. She is also translating Chinese in the Army at the age of 23.
She is missing the forest for the trees. She doesn't mention Christ, Mary, the saints or anything with much internal fervor in this entire conversation. You can blame this on the SSPX for not being charitable, welcoming and warm enough if you want, but what are they supposed to do? I get the feeling if she had St. Jane Chantal as Mother Superior it wouldn't have been enough. She just sounds very pleased with herself and jokey and locked into her own world. This is a very common attitude outside the Church today, an ironic, questioning, quasi-cynical stance, and unfortunately it will probably infect many of the younger people.
I am good with this type, I think, because I used to be worldly and I understand the allure of various artistic and intellectual pursuits. I know how certain Catholic circles can seem narrow and suffocating to those who think they are more cultured. I can also see why some trad priests are not inspiring figures to such people -- they try to appeal more to families than to display an intellectual vibrancy. She did say she had an "artistic temperament." The only way to really break through this kind of pride is to fear God, to learn to appreciate simplicity and God's natural order, but she isn't there yet apparently.
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Whoa, this interview really does degenerate. "I'm sorry you're not attracting your husband anymore, get some lingerie..." "Lose 300 pounds..." Nice.
I'm no SSPX Little House type, but I get a bad feeling from this girl. Complaining that the nuns thought the slit in her skirt was too high -- just change it! No, she says "I'm sorry you feel that way."
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Those interviews were horrible. The second one was positively evil, all three of them should be ashamed.
All three? I thought they were extremely restrained and charitable, considering the huge sacrifices they made in order to give their children a Catholic education.
The attrition rate for many of these trad academies is simply outrageous. The teachers must take some responsibility for the great number of failures.
Further, the rigorism seems impractical to me. The point, the entire purpose of education is to lead souls to God. So it seems to me, that ordinary, average kids should have a fair shake at being prepared to know, love and serve God.
There's too much backlash against the lax academic and moral standards in some of these little academies.
And really, why don't they just make the kids wear uniforms and eliminate any issue about dress code? :confused1: No uniforms, what a set-up for singling people out, a waste of time IMO.
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My computer has no sound, so, unfortunately, I cannot listen to this. I do need to get my computer fixed.
It's a good thing this is being brought out into the open, so more people go into these traddie enclaves with their eyes wide open. Perhaps we should all have a backup plan, just in case things don't work out in a particular chapel. We're hearing so many stories of things not working out - entire families being shunned and kids getting kicked out of traditional schools.
There is one school in my neck of the woods that is notorious for people getting tossed out. (Thankfully, my children never went there.)
I am starting to think people, especially those with children, need a Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.
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I agree Anon. I am very glad people are starting to come forward. There are lots and lots of us.
These megalomaniacs who throw Catholic children out of their VIP schools have lost the plot.
The point is not to hoard the Faith for a Select Few. The point is to form Catholic souls for Christ, not form "the fatal cliques" whom St. John Bosco abhorred.
It is really very simple, simple enough for the children to figure out. Where there is no Charity, there is no way to form god Catholic children.
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I love your shows.
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I only saw 2 interviews. Where is the third?
Also who is conducting the interview?
What is his point of view? Neo-Cath? Lib? Trad?
Anyone who knows this, please let me know. Thanks.
Haven't listened to them yet.
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I haven't listened to these since I am unable. But, if this girl is either one of the two of I am thinking about (which is why I asked if their real names were used), there's more to the story.
Also, walking away from the faith is prevalent all over and it matters not whether you are novus ordo, SSPX or sede. For every girl like her at St. Dominic's, there are dozens who turned out well.
If the truth be known, if any school today was run like the one I went to pre-VII, they'd be closed down. No parent today would stand for the their children being disciplined the way we were. The schools would have the CPS all over them if they ever even tried to run a school along those lines in this lax and undisciplined day and age.
No one is looking to escape from anything. It's like someone already said, we just want to be with our own kind. There was a time when your neighborhoods were like that - all good Catholics. Those days are gone. However, I wouldn't advise anyone to uproot themselves for what they think will be a traditional haven because they don't exist. And I would never in a million years advise anyone to uproot themselves from the New York City metropolitan area to the Pacific Northwest.
No one is hoarding any faith. Most of us were made to feel supremely unwelcome in our novus ordo parishes. Parents can't be faulted for wanting the best for their children and trying to protect them from the evil that surrounds them. It's everywhere today.
Show me one place where true charity exist. We have already been told that in the last days charity would grow cold in the hearts of men.
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That's harsh, Dulc.
By and large, I don't think many go there to "run away" from anything. I'd say most go to large Trad areas for the school. Raising a Catholic family is hard. Toss in homeschooling and it might just be more than most can handle. So, what do you do? You make a choice. Send your children to a local school or move to where there is a Trad school. What would you do?
But moving to such a place for reasons of necessity is different than moving there because one thinks it's going to secure them in their Catholicism. I was only speaking of people who have no logical, rational reason to move to a far away place, but who do it because they have unrealistic ideas about how it's going to be, or what impact it'll have on their faith. Eg, if there's a trad Catholic school much, much closer, but they want to go to only the biggest Catholic place they can find. As though somehow that's better.
The topic has come up in my own house a few times, and it's never even "oh, lets move to somewhere where there's an SSPX chapel!" It's "lets move to St. Mary's". As though all of the other, smaller Traditional Catholic communities aren't worth a hill of beans, but this one, Catholic "oasis" ... oh! Well, THAT'S different! Everything would be PERFECT there!
Yeah, except the million little things that are not perfect, because people, Catholic or not, are still human beings.
And think of it this way... Those other, smaller chapels/places actually NEED the support of families moving in from other places so that they can afford to be there. Some of the schools at those smaller places need that in order to survive. Why is it that people irrationally want to migrate to the largest, already fully established place, rather than support another such place growing up somewhere else?
I was only speaking only of those who make those kinds of pointless, irrational decisions, as though it really will make them and all of their kids automatic saints, if they just move to the biggest and best Catholic watering hole out there.
Of course, when you're a parent, you have to go wherever your kids are going to get the best shot. But still, the parents need to realize that the schools are having problems, too. LOTS of parents are getting the same idea at once, and that means LOTS of kids who used to go to public schools are also going to be there. Parents may get there and breathe a sigh of relief, thinking as long as there are traditional Catholic teachers involved, their children's faith is secure... but that also seems to be one of the biggest problems facing the trad Catholic schools right now... all these parents just plopping their kids into the trad schools, and then washing their hands of them, so to speak, as though it's a done deal.
Of course, parents do the best they can. Necessity plays a part in that, as you say. But my dismay was aimed more at those who don't have to move quite as far as they plan to, simply because they think it's some kind of insurance for their faith, or some kind of Catholic cure-all for them and their children. The fight is inside of each one of us. If we're not willing to fight outside of one of those big Catholic centers, then when we get there, we'll be just as mediocre Catholics as we were anywhere else. Our external performance may pick up a little, but for the Catholic who just doesn't want to fight anymore, that can easily become an excuse to go home and say, "ok, I've fulfilled my Catholic quota for the day..." and switch over to worldly mode, living like everybody else does in the rest of their time.
It's things like that that worry me about the whole "lets move THERE" thing. But if families were determined to do it, the least they could do is support the places that are struggling. Isn't the goal for the whole world to be Catholic? We're not helping it if we all keep moving to the same, already established places. At least they could be zealous and try to move in and support smaller places, so that those could become larger and succeed.
I certainly didn't mean to say anything bad about those parents who find their hand forced, and make a decision to put their kids into the trad Catholic schools. If you're forced, you're forced. But those who have a choice WHICH ONE... might do well to look to smaller ones that really need the help, so that those options will continue to be there for other Catholics. If these places are taking donations, that means there aren't enough Catholics sending their kids to those smaller places, helping them become self-sufficient. That's pretty worrisome for the future of Catholics in those areas who also don't have the choice to home school. So why do people continue to move all the way across the country to some "mega-center" ... instead of supporting something a lot more local so people don't have to leave their whole lives behind just to get a Catholic education?
It's a bad trend. Every part of the country (and the world) needs to have it's own "Catholic heart". Every state... heck, every CITY... should have something of it's own. Instead we're rushing to one or two places, leaving everyone and everything we know behind, and letting everything else rot. I just can't see the wisdom in that. Are we all praying for an 845th mass in St. Mary's? Or would it be better if every state got another traditional Catholic church? If people think those places are the answer, good... then lets make a lot more of them in other places where there aren't any!
We're not tomato plants. We're human beings. There's just something a bit wacky about tearing up our roots and plopping down somewhere else after generations of family have lived in the same place. And it certainly isn't going to fix anything.
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This girl is right, it's not like this in France -- although from what I have seen they dress like hobos at the French SSPX.
Nothing wrong with being, and therefore dressing, poor.
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All three?
Not so much the host, though he seemed to instigate through weakness or at least confusion. The gentleman who new Emma from school seemed to be nothing more than a sychophant flatterer who was infatuated with this poor girl. Emma herself had and has a very serious problem with vanity and self-love, which ultimately led to her apostasy while horribly laying blame at the feet of "uncharitable" sisters.
The stench from Emma's over-inflated sense of self-importance was overwhelming. The story just got progressively worse. She (and the two gentlemen) apparently have confused discipline with lack of charity. The sting of mortification was just too much for Emma's pride to take. Nature abhors mortification, she clung to her affections with tenacity, eventually falling into dissimulation while condescending everyone else around her.
She proved the case even more when she admitted that all the girls are Catholic today, except her. In her warped mind, she expected everyone else to have suffered the same injury to the ego as an excuse for self-indulgence and ultimately the denial of truth.
So what would have happened if she had attended a school with a lax environment that let her indulge in her passions of self-love? She would have done what she had liked and still apostasized, because her heart was corrupted anyways. They don't mean to say that the sisters were uncharitable, what they really meant to say was that the sisters lacked that false charity which they so cherish.
Then to top it off, the sychophant flatterer at the end held poor Emma up as a martyr for self-indulgence, implying that the sisters were to blame for her mortal sins against faith. Now that is an offense against charity.
What are the sisters to do? If they maintain order and discipline, they are accused of being uncharitable by worldlings, if they allow girls to self-indulge, they hand them over to Satan.
If Catholics wish to maintain peace and unity, I would highly advise them to stop turning to ad hominem and start turning to our Lord Jesus Christ Who is annoyed at the fact that we enjoy using the faults of our neighbor to imugn the veracity of his religion.
Elizabeth, there is a very big difference between the evil you suffered and Catholic nuns attempting to form the characters of these girls. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that even slight mortification is "oppressive" to the spirit. The opposite is actually true.
As a side note, I think the fact that they didn't have uniforms is a breath of fresh air in the sense that they thought that people could dress modestly without being forced to institute a dress code. The only reason why dress codes exist is to train very imperfect people. They thought that they had progressed beyond this very imperfect mentality. Now it is used against them by narcisstic worldlings.
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The attrition rate for many of these trad academies is simply outrageous. The teachers must take some responsibility for the great number of failures.
But if the teachers are saints and teach like angels, and the kids came from public school or have embraced worldly pride and vanity, or if they go home and mom and dad are watching television and living like anyone else in the world, other than a few Catholic "externals" ... the results would be the same.
I've heard a lot of lamentation from the trad schools about how parents expect them to work miracles for their children and their holiness and their attitudes and so forth, but basically there is NO involvement from the parents in the education, or rather the formation, of their children. Or they're getting bad examples. Or they're rotten before they come, and the parents expect the Catholic school to somehow miraculously defeat their free will to become staunch atheists if that's what they want to do.
There's this little thing called free will. All of us have one, even the smallest children. And at some point in their lives, usually pretty early on, the kids know what direction they want to go in... to "have a fun life" like everyone else in the world, or to "live right and love God" like Catholics should. I would just love to know how many of us Catholics born in the last 30 years or less (or even 40 years, if you want to be liberal) did not at one point or another fall almost totally and completely into a wholly non-Catholic attitude and way of life. I'm betting there are very, very few, who were from their birth, very devout and very holy, and who stayed that way their whole lives.
Most of us do our messing up from our childhood to our teen years, before we finally (Lord willing) get our heads screwed on straight, and start to realize that the glittering, seductive dream world that the world seems to offer, is really empty, depressing and internally (and eternally) devastating. That's because the pull is stronger than ever, and the pressure to go along with it is stronger than ever. "Born traditional Catholic" is not always the vaccine it should be against it, and even when it is, it all comes down to personal choice. Am I, or am I not going to live a Catholic life?
The kids make these choices whether or not the parents know or like it. They make them young, and they generally stick to them for quite a while. In the case of choosing the world, sometimes until the whole poisonous affair blows up in their faces, and sometimes (sadly) for life. There is not a darn thing that the teachers or priests can do about that free will. The parents are the ones that had the best shot at guiding it, but by the time the teachers get the children, it's more likely than not already too late... that is, for better or worse, the kid's mind is made up. Either they think being holy is the way to go and their love of God is well founded and sincere, or else they think being holy is some bizarre form of ma$*(#ism, that all of us are idiots for being involved in it, and that they sure as heck have no intention of joining us.
Blaming the teachers is easy, but God didn't give the children to the teachers. He gave them to the parents, and the responsibility will lie firstly and before all, WITH the parents, as to how those children were raised. Maybe it's their fault, and maybe it isn't (eg, maybe they didn't know about the other options and sent junior to public schools for six years). But either way, the cradle is in the home, not in the school. The parents, and the life the kids had (maliciously or not) because of them, came first. And that is what formed their personalities before the teachers came along. The teachers can do their best to show the kids what the truth is, and how they should live and love God... but they can't negate their free will, or the formation they've had at home or before that, no matter WHY they had the formation they did have.
I speak from experience. Being a cradle Catholic still doesn't take away your free will, or shut out the world's allures, or turn off your unruly passions, or assure your holiness in any way. Neither does catechism classes on Sunday, or a sharp U-turn to home schooling halfway through the kid's education. Those things may give them a much better shot at saving their soul than not (and it does) ... but it doesn't change the things they've already been through/experienced, what kind of atmosphere they were born into, how their passions will pull at them to go the wrong way, or finally, the fact that sooner or later they are going to ultimately choose one way or the other. Meanwhile, kids choose every moment of every day to step toward one choice or the other, whether or not all of the adults in their lives like it or hate it. And sometimes BECAUSE they hate it.
Traditional Catholic schools may be the best shot some parents can give their kids at turning their lives around, now or later. But it can't take away the fact that that child will have to choose for themselves, and that choice, no one can take from them.
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All three?
Not so much the host, though he seemed to instigate through weakness or at least confusion. The gentleman who new Emma from school seemed to be nothing more than a sychophant flatterer who was infatuated with this poor girl. Emma herself had and has a very serious problem with vanity and self-love, which ultimately led to her apostasy while horribly laying blame at the feet of "uncharitable" sisters.
The stench from Emma's over-inflated sense of self-importance was overwhelming. The story just got progressively worse. She (and the two gentlemen) apparently have confused discipline with lack of charity. The sting of mortification was just too much for Emma's pride to take. Nature abhors mortification, she clung to her affections with tenacity, eventually falling into dissimulation while condescending everyone else around her.
She proved the case even more when she admitted that all the girls are Catholic today, except her. In her warped mind, she expected everyone else to have suffered the same injury to the ego as an excuse for self-indulgence and ultimately the denial of truth.
So what would have happened if she had attended a school with a lax environment that let her indulge in her passions of self-love? She would have done what she had liked and still apostasized, because her heart was corrupted anyways. They don't mean to say that the sisters were uncharitable, what they really meant to say was that the sisters lacked that false charity which they so cherish.
Then to top it off, the sychophant flatterer at the end held poor Emma up as a martyr for self-indulgence, implying that the sisters were to blame for her mortal sins against faith. Now that is an offense against charity.
What are the sisters to do? If they maintain order and discipline, they are accused of being uncharitable by worldlings, if they allow girls to self-indulge, they hand them over to Satan.
If Catholics wish to maintain peace and unity, I would highly advise them to stop turning to ad hominem and start turning to our Lord Jesus Christ Who is annoyed at the fact that we enjoy using the faults of our neighbor to imugn the veracity of his religion.
Elizabeth, there is a very big difference between the evil you suffered and Catholic nuns attempting to form the characters of these girls. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that even slight mortification is "oppressive" to the spirit. The opposite is actually true.
As a side note, I think the fact that they didn't have uniforms is a breath of fresh air in the sense that they thought that people could dress modestly without being forced to institute a dress code. The only reason why dress codes exist is to train very imperfect people. They thought that they had progressed beyond this very imperfect mentality. Now it is used against them by narcisstic worldlings.
Bravo, Caminus! :applause:
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It's not always all the school's fault either. Parents are often the problem. I know well from my SSPX days of parents living worldly lives and expecting the schools to work miracles with their children.
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To tell you the truth, the more I think about this, the angrier I get. If I was the pastor at Immaculate Conception, I'd show the parishioner that ran these interviews the door. All this does is stir up discontent in a parish that already has more than its share of troublemakers. They don't need anymore. And they don't need the children that are attending any of their schools to get their hands on this and start stirring up trouble. You know how young people can be.
I am wondering what his purpose is in holding these interviews.
Oh my! I really should start getting more sleep. I'm actually sticking up for the SSPX.... :smirk:
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To tell you the truth, the more I think about this, the angrier I get. If I was the pastor at Immaculate Conception, I'd show the parishioner that ran these interviews the door. All this does is stir up discontent in a parish that already has more than its share of troublemakers. They don't need anymore. And they don't need the children that are attending any of their schools to get their hands on this and start stirring up trouble. You know how young people can be.
I am wondering what his purpose is in holding these interviews.
Oh my! I really should start getting more sleep. I'm actually sticking up for the SSPX.... :smirk:
But it's not about groups per se, it's about transcendental things like truth, justice, charity, etc. Those are the things that unite us together, not names of groups like SSPX. And those things are impugned by small-minded, worldly trouble-makers who should think twice before speaking, especially on a public radio program for all to hear. There are two very important biblical passages to always keep in mind. The one from St. Paul where he admonishes the faithful to bear patiently with imperfections. The other is directly from our Lord where He uses the analogy of the log and speck of dust in the eye.
Where imperfections go unchecked and become inordinate evil that destroys the Church as a ravenous wolf would, we can understand and observe with clarity. Where simple imperfections abound more or less, we ought to simply admit that we too are part of the problem and advert attention to our own depraved interior and the mercy of God.
Finally, there is an infinite distance between sins that lessen charity and intentional sins that extinguish charity in the soul altogether. If any man wants to accuse his neighbor of the former in self-righteous indignation, he ought to look no further than himself. If they use the term 'uncharitable' in the latter sense, the burden of proof is on them, lest they further aggravate their own depravity by adding sins of injustice.
I too am increasingly disgusted the more I remember this interview.
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But the girl WAS a teacher! Right out of High School, and then she joined the Marines.
I have lamented over and over the dying-off of the orders of nursing and teaching sisters.
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I have no regrets sending my childen to Mount St. Michael, the students they met there are their best friends now as adults, my grandchildren attend the Mount today, because my children now adults want to send them there.
We made some sacrifices to get them there, boarded them for a few years till we could move to Spokane, and when my children graduated from the Mount, they stayed in the area, except for one who lives in Reno. I have his children with me, here in Spokane so they could have a chance at learning their Faith. The grandchildren that live with me, have a choice, since their mother in not against us, but not really with us either. The kids choose on their own to come back every year. They tried public school and hated it.
I think children should see that they are not alone, not the only ones in the entire world that are left as Traditional Catholics. I also like to introduce them and when possible take them to as many traditional chapels/churches as I can find, so they can also see that it is not only Mount St. Michael with a Latin Mass, rules to live by, singing the same hymns and praying the same prayers.
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Oh my! I really should start getting more sleep. I'm actually sticking up for the SSPX.... :smirk:
That's OK by me.
:alcohol:
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I see the original poster didn't take our comments to heart since he conducted yet another "expose" interview with two different women.
I would like to see him put down the microphone and start typing on his keyboard so that he can explain his actions. If he thought well enough to publicize his efforts here, the least he could do is interact with other concerned Catholics of whom he apparently desired to listen to his broadcast.
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I'm delighted they've done another interview. I am very familiar with people who are not even slightly qualified to teach being placed in the traddy classroom.
Those of you who have never had your kids bullied and kicked out of a Catholic school might want to think about who is being uncharitable here.
And those of you who are not parents, or whose children do not attend school might be in for a big surprise some day.
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I don't understand the complaints about dress codes at schools. It's very petty.
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You can live in a non-catholic theocracy :turban:and bring up children with a zeal equal to that of a martyr.
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That's harsh, Dulc.
By and large, I don't think many go there to "run away" from anything. I'd say most go to large Trad areas for the school. Raising a Catholic family is hard. Toss in homeschooling and it might just be more than most can handle. So, what do you do? You make a choice. Send your children to a local school or move to where there is a Trad school. What would you do?
agree, these people are not going miles into some cave to disappear, or the woods, but want to live and exist with fellow Trads, and their children to play with, school with and marry fellow trads like them.....much like Amish did and still do....
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a Catholic theocracy would be best, but true, even in non-Catholic nations or those largely indfferent (Italy, France)
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I don't understand the complaints about dress codes at schools. It's very petty.
Something reasonable like a dress code may be used as an excuse to bully and single someone out for humiliation.
Now that everybody knows they'll get in trouble with CPS for physical abuse, the unbalanced ones use other methods to humiliate their targets.
The point is random enforcement of the rules, not the fact of having rules of conduct or standards of decency. Punishing one child for something, and rewarding another for the very same behavior. I have no idea if this was the dynamic at St. Dominic's, but I have most certainly witnessed this and observed the results.
Most children cannot concentrate on their studies when they are singled out for something, humiliated, for something they can't understand.
It is pathetically easy to destroy a child in front of his classmates.
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Well, then, let's review the choices:
1. Public Schools - Let your child/children be indoctrinated as a communist and saturated with sex education and taught to accept every and any perverse lifestyle there is as normal.
2. Novus Ordo Schools - Let your child/children be indoctrinated in Vatican Two-ese and be trained as a little greenie where they come to value the environment more than their immortal souls.
3. Traditional Schools - They are taught the faith.
4. Keep them home.
If they ran a school along the lines of how Catholic schools were run prior to Vatican II, child protective services would be all over them and lawsuits would abound.
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I see the original poster didn't take our comments to heart since he conducted yet another "expose" interview with two different women.
I would like to see him put down the microphone and start typing on his keyboard so that he can explain his actions. If he thought well enough to publicize his efforts here, the least he could do is interact with other concerned Catholics of whom he apparently desired to listen to his broadcast.
i have contacted the host to tell him about your thread here. I wrote him today and wrote several weeks ago for the first time.
I think these radio interviews tell it like it is
The site has a new talk called Women of Tradition. 2 moms talk about Post Falls SSPX parish.
This is a great talk!
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/profile.aspx?userurl=backyardradtrads
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I didn't start this thread. It appears that the host of the show did or someone associated with the show.
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I haven't seen any catholic school but based on my personal experience, use of uniforms are the best (especially with girls) otherwise there will be a fashion contest,"whose dress is the prettiest?", "who is best dressed girl in your class?" etc. Even if they don't mention it, it is always present in their little minds.
Then comes the humiliation of poor children, and conceit of well to do ones. Not to mention that even psychologist believe that uniforms keep children from distractions that would otherwise exist. (a beautiful rose-shaped ribbon catching some little eyes...)
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I think Emerentiana simply means your post in this thread, Cam.
The host of the latest interview mentioned some negative responses, some saying he should be kicked out of church.
I am assuming :
a)he did the due process according to St. Paul before going public,
b)that none of them ever, ever wanted their kids to be expelled
c)they had high moral standards at home
d) they did everything possible to make the enormous sacrifice of moving there bear good fruit, including being willing to abase themselves for the common good.
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I don't understand the complaints about dress codes at schools. It's very petty.
Something reasonable like a dress code may be used as an excuse to bully and single someone out for humiliation.
Now that everybody knows they'll get in trouble with CPS for physical abuse, the unbalanced ones use other methods to humiliate their targets.
The point is random enforcement of the rules, not the fact of having rules of conduct or standards of decency. Punishing one child for something, and rewarding another for the very same behavior. I have no idea if this was the dynamic at St. Dominic's, but I have most certainly witnessed this and observed the results.
Most children cannot concentrate on their studies when they are singled out for something, humiliated, for something they can't understand.
It is pathetically easy to destroy a child in front of his classmates.
But what does that have to do with these sisters and this catholic school? This merely begs the question. I'm not prepared to αssαssιnαtҽ the characters of countless people so as to indulge in murmuring about real or perceived problems. I don't think you are sufficiently making proper distinctions because you have suffered so much at the hands of sinister catholics.
The long and the short of it is this, these men attempted to put the blame of a prideful young girl's apostasy at the feet of catholic nuns whereas the blame ultimately lies only with the girl herself. It is an outrageous injustice. Then Charlie had the audacity to publicly portray her as a martyr. He either has an ulterior motive or is simply blinded by his own passions. Regardless, the stench eminating from this is too much. Their attempted display of moral superiority is disgusting, ESPECIALLY because of the grounds upon which they would advance it. They in fact rest their case on their own very grave imperfections which is pure hypocrisy.
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I would love to be near a large traditional Catholic church, but what about the rest of the world that we are supposed to be the light of? Hiding together somewhere until the big, bad world passes, strikes me as being suspiciously close to hiding that "light of the world" under the proverbial bushel. The same things that, in principal, people hope will protect their faith, become the same things that keep them from sharing it with anyone else by example.
Dulcamara, many people have a tendency to take the "light of the world" verse out of context (I'm not necessarily saying that you are). The verse is about living a distinctive Traditional Catholic lifestyle. The passage is more of a warning than a call to evangelize the planet. For why would does the verse beforehand (St. Matthew 5:13) state: "But if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is good for nothing any more but to be cast out, and to be trodden on by men."
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I think the point of these three interviews is to make people aware of what they might possibly be getting into when uprooting their families, going broke and so forth. Perhaps one of the Backyardradtrads will join this forum and debate his position,
Yes, I may be overly sensitive to the discussions as a result of what our family has experienced. For example, I had to turn the 3rd interview off and calm down when Mary-Anne was describing the nervous breakdowns she'd seen. She used the exact words women have shared with me in private to describe the dysfunction at school and the horrible results at home.
So far in the 3rd episode, no blaming of nuns. Some pokes at an unqualified teacher who ran off half the class, and legitimate problems with the small kids having way too much homework, being too exhausted to even think, and Mom trying to fit in doing dinner,clean-up, homework and having no family time.
My Daddy is in his late 80's and they never had homework until High School, same for other old school Catholics whom I have asked. He and my Mother and many others got an excellent education from good teaching sisters, and so did my grandparents.
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I had plenty of homework in school. I would sit at the kitchen table for hours, going from one subject to another. A lot of memorizing. It wasn't easy for a child to do, but we did it. That's the way it was back then and no one thought twice about it.
And then there was the discipline in school. Getting hit with a ruler, made to kneel on slatted wood floors in front of a statue for misbehaving (like unnecessary talking) for hours, getting swatted on the behind, and the infamous "punish tasks" to take home with you after all that (a punish task would consist of anything from 50 times to 500 times writing something out such as "I will not talk on line").
You sat at your desk with both feet on the floor (no crossed legs) and your hands nicely folded on top of your desk. We retrieved our coats from the "cloak closet" (that shows you how long ago I went because that is what they still called the coat room) one row at a time. Same with going to the "lavatory" - one row at a time.
In the school yard, a whistle would blow and everyone had to immediately stop what they were doing and not make a move. At the next whistle, we all quietly got into our respective class lines.
There's more, but that's the way it was for me and countless others in the city I grew up in.
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Mine was much like that too, and no great problem happened.
And yet my father and grandmother always tell me how easy was our school time compared to theirs. And they too did't end in misery.
We had (and still have) exams for all grades and any child who gets less than 10 in his final has to do it again in the summer. Rather thick source books which every child has to carry with himself to school everyday. For each day there is math, reading and writing homework and also the study of lesson you will be asked tomorrow.
Each morning they check you to see if you have personal glass and handkercheif and if your nails (and hairs for boys)are not too long. Then you go to your class in quoes.
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OK, but your family didn't need to uproot to go find a Catholic school, they were everywhere, and full of children.
You already "belonged" in your own neighborhood, right? It was the same for countless others, you say.
What is being discussed are several things that have no relation to Catholic Schools of the 50's. There are not countless Catholic schools anymore. These traditional Mass centers rely on rich benefactors to survive. The situation is far different.
Anyway, if you can't listen to the interviews
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Alexandria In the school yard, a whistle would blow and everyone had to immediately stop what they were doing and not make a move. At the next whistle, we all quietly got into our respective class lines.
That is what I remember the most, we kids loved it, freezing in those awkward positions, than waiting for the next bell and quietly walking back to the class room.
However, I will say, I attended school in the 50's and never remember getting hit or swatted, nor did anyone else. The Catholic school I attended was in Chicago. I do remember once in awhile a student being taken out of the classroom into the hall, and the student didn't return to school for a few days.
I remember once, the nun promised a surprise to the child who looked the most pious during prayers and I won, but because I didn't say thank you for the holy card when presented fast enough, she took it back. I was so crushed when I came home from school that day, I pretended to be sick and would not go back to school for a couple of days.
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Anyway, if you can't listen to the interviews
No I can't.
And yes it is the norm and there are schools in every neighbourhood, all with the same sourcebooks.
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OK, but your family didn't need to uproot to go find a Catholic school, they were everywhere, and full of children.
You already "belonged" in your own neighborhood, right? It was the same for countless others, you say.
What is being discussed are several things that have no relation to Catholic Schools of the 50's. There are not countless Catholic schools anymore. These traditional Mass centers rely on rich benefactors to survive. The situation is far different.
Anyway, if you can't listen to the interviews
I'm bowing out of this. It is starting to remind me of the now defunct Rogue Bishop forum with the former and present CMRI parishioners at one another's necks.
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What is being discussed are several things that have no relation to Catholic Schools of the 50's. There are not countless Catholic schools anymore. These traditional Mass centers rely on rich benefactors to survive. The situation is far different.
Yes, the situation is a great deal different.
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Those interviews were horrible. The second one was positively evil, all three of them should be ashamed.
The first one isn't that bad. I've come across John's blog and there is much there I think we here would agree with. The second one on the other hand...
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former and present CMRI parishioners at one another's necks.
The four participants in the interview "Women of Tradition" LOVE CMRI and the school at The Mount. They can't speak highly enough of it, even though they are not SV. Their kids loved going to school there, also.
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I need to listen to those interviews before I say much. Meanwhile, the point Elizabeth is making, and which I agree with 100 percent, is that some of these "traditional" schools have become quite selective, with much picking and choosing as to who they admit, and who they let stay.
Because of how things are, they have a virtual monopoly, because they know parents have no other alternative than to home school or to send their children to public schools. These schools have also become substitute Catholic neighborhoods, which we no longer have.
I have personally seen horrible things happen to entire families when they are forced to leave, ie., thrown out of their traddie enclave and into the real world. And I hope and pray people reading this and possibly considering making huge sacrifices to move someplace else at least have a backup plan if things go wrong. Perhaps it's not a good idea to move to a remote, isolated area with just one Latin Mass center and nothing else around for miles.
This is a very serious issue, IMHO, as it could affect someone's eternal salvation.
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former and present CMRI parishioners at one another's necks.
The four participants in the interview "Women of Tradition" LOVE CMRI and the school at The Mount. They can't speak highly enough of it, even though they are not SV. Their kids loved going to school there, also.
Actually, the 2 male hosts loved CMRI and the school. The women had no contact with CMRI, but were very disinchanted with the SSPX school in Post Falls, Idaho.
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:smirk:
To tell you the truth, the more I think about this, the angrier I get. If I was the pastor at Immaculate Conception, I'd show the parishioner that ran these interviews the door. All this does is stir up discontent in a parish that already has more than its share of troublemakers. They don't need anymore. And they don't need the children that are attending any of their schools to get their hands on this and start stirring up trouble. You know how young people can be.
I am wondering what his purpose is in holding these interviews.
Oh my! I really should start getting more sleep. I'm actually sticking up for the SSPX.... :smirk:
But it's not about groups per se, it's about transcendental things like truth, justice, charity, etc. Those are the things that unite us together, not names of groups like SSPX. And those things are impugned by small-minded, worldly trouble-makers who should think twice before speaking, especially on a public radio program for all to hear. There are two very important biblical passages to always keep in mind. The one from St. Paul where he admonishes the faithful to bear patiently with imperfections. The other is directly from our Lord where He uses the analogy of the log and speck of dust in the eye.
Where imperfections go unchecked and become inordinate evil that destroys the Church as a ravenous wolf would, we can understand and observe with clarity. Where simple imperfections abound more or less, we ought to simply admit that we too are part of the problem and advert attention to our own depraved interior and the mercy of God.
Finally, there is an infinite distance between sins that lessen charity and intentional sins that extinguish charity in the soul altogether. If any man wants to accuse his neighbor of the former in self-righteous indignation, he ought to look no further than himself. If they use the term 'uncharitable' in the latter sense, the burden of proof is on them, lest they further aggravate their own depravity by adding sins of injustice.
I too am increasingly disgusted the more I remember this interview.
Do you have any children, Caminus? The interview called women of tradition is a 2 part talk. It is a very good one. The women had very legitimate concerns. :smirk:
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This thread reminds me of Maria Monk---especially the way it was introduced.
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I think I lost something in this thread maybe because I couldn't get the audio to work on the interviews, so I probably should just keep quiet, for some reason I thought we were talking about our experiences with Traditional Catholic schools, our own and our childrens.
I'm going to sleep now :sleep:
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former and present CMRI parishioners at one another's necks.
The four participants in the interview "Women of Tradition" LOVE CMRI and the school at The Mount. They can't speak highly enough of it, even though they are not SV. Their kids loved going to school there, also.
Actually, the 2 male hosts loved CMRI and the school. The women had no contact with CMRI, but were very disinchanted with the SSPX school in Post Falls, Idaho.
Granted that there is a problem, the two hosts as well as the two women come up with a false analysis and therefore false solutions. Honestly, do they think that God exists to make us happy and for everything to be nice according to their assumptions?
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Caraffa, you're cutting to the heart of one of their seriously false presuppositions.
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former and present CMRI parishioners at one another's necks.
The four participants in the interview "Women of Tradition" LOVE CMRI and the school at The Mount. They can't speak highly enough of it, even though they are not SV. Their kids loved going to school there, also.
Actually, the 2 male hosts loved CMRI and the school. The women had no contact with CMRI, but were very disinchanted with the SSPX school in Post Falls, Idaho.
Granted that there is a problem, the two hosts as well as the two women come up with a false analysis and therefore false solutions. Honestly, do they think that God exists to make us happy and for everything to be nice according to their assumptions?
A public airing of grievances is never going to sound good. This is why people hire lawyers. It's too hard to keep a clear head and avoid saying stupid things when a person is very upset.
It would seem to me the society is having problems when it allows the benefactors too much power. It has problems when it exceeds its authority and meddles in things that are not its business.
The society should teach what the Church teaches and either it will grow or it will not grow. The more concerned it becomes with expansion and petty power the less successful it will be.
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Is this not just another attack on Catholicism?
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No, I don't think this is an attack on Catholicism. It is a warning to families.
Many people uproot their families, careers, salaries and chapels in order to place their children in traditional Catholic schools. Homeschooling just doesn't work for many families, or it ceases to work.
Some of these schools are not geared toward the averge student (meaning the academic workload will be too heavy for a student who is not intellectually superior and self-motivated) some of them are corrupt from the top down, some of them don't want "outsiders".
To admit that there are very real problems facing traditional Catholic education doesn't seem like an attack on the Faith to me.
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Emma is a Catholic who thinks she is a Baptist.
If that's what you're learning out there, then no wonder why you're condemning the school.
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Try Emma is a Baptist who thought she was a Catholic.
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Hi Charley! Thanks for joining in the discussions :cheers:
As you can see, there are a variety of passionate sentiments when it comes to the Catholic formation of our children.
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The society should teach what the Church teaches and either it will grow or it will not grow. The more concerned it becomes with expansion and petty power the less successful it will be.
I agree. The SSPX and many Traditional Catholics probably don't realize this, but when they become too concerned about expansion and growth in numbers only, they are actually acting like revivalistic American evangelicals and thus caving into the larger American religious culture.
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The society should teach what the Church teaches and either it will grow or it will not grow. The more concerned it becomes with expansion and petty power the less successful it will be.
I agree. The SSPX and many Traditional Catholics probably don't realize this, but when they become too concerned about expansion and growth in numbers only, they are actually acting like revivalistic American evangelicals and thus caving into the larger American religious culture.
It's a gratuitous assertion, but I suppose it's easy when you are criticizing a faceless name. Why don't we just stick with evidence rather than injecting our suspicions and sweeping generalizations into the mix?
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One of the underlying premises seems to be that the laity make up the Catholic religion itself and when they do something bad whether real or perceived, we infer that their religion had something to do with it? If that is not the case, then why start the conversation with "Traditional Catholic Schools"? Why not start the conversation with common sins of lay people?
I can assure you that neither I, nor Charley, nor any other layman actually forms the Catholic religion for it existed prior to us.
To advert our attention to the attitudes or failings of our lay brothers and sisters is a most grevious error and it is aggravated when we attempt to make a commentary on something radically different, the Catholic religion and education itself.
Another underlying fault of Charley, et. al. is that he seems to think that if his neighbor does not offer him consoling feelings during interaction, there must be something wrong with the man who thus offended our sensibilities. The grevious error here is foisting our pride onto someone else and then demanding that they act accordingly. Basically, they senses and tastes were offended, they did not receive warm fuzzy feelings all of the time, they did not supply for my inordinate affections, may vain desire to be pleased, ergo, there must be something wrong with the school. This entire problem rests rather on those who think this way. They are using their own spiritual imperfections as the rule by which they judge their neighbor and entire institutions.
Add to this the actual grounds upon which they criticized the Church, e.g. they did not let me indulge my passions and worldy tastes, and the entire thing comes to naught except these men are left standing with their new sins to deal with.
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The quickest way to abandon your religion is to practice is because of our affections or lack thereof for our neighbor. I assure you that I do not adhere to Roman Catholicism because of those around me. Nor would I expect them to adhere to their religion because of me.
But Charley's modus is entirely backwards, thus he exhaults, Emma, objectively a true enemy of Christ, utterly devoid of divine Charity and supernatural Faith, while backbiting those who in fact are friends of Jesus Christ, their common sins notwithstanding.
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You know this attitude of accusing people who complain of excessive pride doesn't solve the problem. To teach humility it requires humility. It begins to seem like no one can have a legitimate grievance, the desire for just treatment is chalked up to self-love. That quickly becomes an excuse for mistreating people. It starts to make the society look bad to always accuse people of pride.
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Emma's only legitimate complaint was that she was subject to public attacks on her character. Which is serious.
The double standards on dress code might be really annoying but they are not a reason to take personal offense. That double standards reflect on the moral character of the society is something to consider.
But she was obviously offended by the dress code itself.
She was disgusted by people who reject modern dress and who are trying to dress modestly and decently.
And she was offended by those who disapproved of the way she dresses.
Obviously the girl had a problem with Catholic teaching on modesty. '
She herself said you shouldn't be "too conservative."
It's pretty clear she has liberal tendencies.
It's very petty and anti-Catholic to express the views she did.
She said she didn't remember things that happened to her - she admitted some personal problems.
It's clear she wasn't telling the whole story.
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You know this attitude of accusing people who complain of excessive pride doesn't solve the problem. To teach humility it requires humility. It begins to seem like no one can have a legitimate grievance, the desire for just treatment is chalked up to self-love. That quickly becomes an excuse for mistreating people. It starts to make the society look bad to always accuse people of pride.
I agree, but you have to look at the nature of the complaint itself, who the problem affects, the grounds upon which the complaint is made and the spirit in which it is made. The stench of self-love in this case is overwhelming, but that's not to say that legitimate complaints cannot be made. None of the complaints thus far have been grounded on anything objectively good or evil and indeed, they evince seriously flawed premises. But if we look hard enough, there is plenty to complain about. For starters, take ourselves for example.
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Hello Charley. The problem with the interview is that it presented itself as an exposé of some kind of inherent rottenness to traditional Catholic communities. But the witness for the prosecution was incredibly weak, since Emma's problems have little to do with the school or the community and more with her own "bulldog" nature.
I felt the interview was too favorable to her point of view and you never stopped to think that you were dealing with an unreliable narrator. I'm afraid the young lady had you guys wrapped around her finger! Many things Emma said should have been questioned. There was no proof that the school was favoring wealthy parents. She herself admitted the education was top class. And when she talked about a nun at the school wanting her to make a slit in the skirt shorter, did you notice that she didn't comply? She just said to the nun "I'm sorry you feel that way."
Emma wanted to have it both ways. She wanted to complain about being ostracized, and how she was being judged unfairly as a temptress or as she put it "Angelina Jolie in training." But then when the nun gave her advice about how to tone down her dress, she didn't take it! That alone kills the "poor wittle Emma" theory, her notion that everyone in the school was part of an anti-Emma witch hunt -- not only the nuns but the women who thought Emma was "tempting their husbands to hell."
Maybe the nun was being overscrupulous. So what? If Emma really wanted to prove that she meant no harm, why didn't she obey just to show that she was trying to fit in? If she did that, and she was still whispered about and blamed, she at least could have honestly said that she did her best to follow the rules.
On the contrary, it sounds like she was trying to make herself the center of attention, but in a subtle way. She had to be subtle -- you can't carry yourself like Rita Hayworth and exist in a trad Catholic community -- but she was pushing the boundaries as much as she could. Or so it sounded to me. In that kind of setting, a too-long slit in the skirt or some slightly too red lipstick or hair too luxuriously arranged can be as provocative as a Madonna outfit might be for the "good pagans." Men definitely pick up on it -- it is not in their wives' imaginations. A temptress is a temptress no matter how chastely she is attired. Signals can be sent with the slightest curve of the mouth, or even a way of walking. An attitude can be provocative even if, to most of the outside world, what Emma was wearing would have looked unobjectionable. She described herself as a "Barbie doll" so obviously she has some pride in her looks, on top of the intellectual pride.
P.S. I am not judging, just DIAGNOSING. To judge is to say someone is a bad person for such-and-such a reason. I'm not saying that about Emma, just trying to point out what she needs to work on, because she may not be aware what she's doing or that she has this rebellious streak, which is on a deep, prideful level rather than a shallow, hormonal one. That is why, in my opinion, lots of the girls who were more boy-crazy in their teenage years quickly married and settled down, becoming good Catholics, while she fell from the faith. She is dealing with a much more insidious kind of pride, probably because of her greater intellectual capacity.
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One of the underlying premises seems to be that the laity make up the Catholic religion itself and when they do something bad whether real or perceived, we infer that their religion had something to do with it? If that is not the case, then why start the conversation with "Traditional Catholic Schools"? Why not start the conversation with common sins of lay people?
I can assure you that neither I, nor Charley, nor any other layman actually forms the Catholic religion for it existed prior to us.
To advert our attention to the attitudes or failings of our lay brothers and sisters is a most grevious error and it is aggravated when we attempt to make a commentary on something radically different, the Catholic religion and education itself.
Ya, what you said- and the schools are messed up too! :baby:
Just teasing. . . I know I needled you a little but I really wanna hang out with you a little in the future so I can learn some of that verbal smart stuff. :pop:
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The quickest way to abandon your religion is to practice is because of our affections or lack thereof for our neighbor. I assure you that I do not adhere to Roman Catholicism because of those around me. Nor would I expect them to adhere to their religion because of me.
But Charley's modus is entirely backwards, thus he exhaults, Emma, objectively a true enemy of Christ, utterly devoid of divine Charity and supernatural Faith, while backbiting those who in fact are friends of Jesus Christ, their common sins notwithstanding.
Were any of your relatives in France around the time that Joan of Arc was burned at the stake? I saw Emma grow up. She was planted in the fertile soil of the SSPX. She was educated at convant. . .
We grow em and we cut em down. :fryingpan:
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And they come out as they will. Emma does have free will, doesn't she? Your insouciance is impressive. I would never mistake you for a responsible party or someone who cares for the welfare of the Church.
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The quickest way to abandon your religion is to practice is because of our affections or lack thereof for our neighbor. I assure you that I do not adhere to Roman Catholicism because of those around me. Nor would I expect them to adhere to their religion because of me.
But Charley's modus is entirely backwards, thus he exhaults, Emma, objectively a true enemy of Christ, utterly devoid of divine Charity and supernatural Faith, while backbiting those who in fact are friends of Jesus Christ, their common sins notwithstanding.
Were any of your relatives in France around the time that Joan of Arc was burned at the stake? I saw Emma grow up. She was planted in the fertile soil of the SSPX. She was educated at convant. . .
We grow em and we cut em down. :fryingpan:
Emma was given a platform to attack the Catholic Faith. That was wrong.
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Raoul76
Your entire post above is quite good. I do not have time to respond to all of it. But you would make a great marriage counselor.
Yes, even Emma (I think) would agree she has much to learn about human nature and how we all tend to justify our actions; and look for escape goats to blame.
Emma was not, from my view, a sultriest young lady. She was a teenager cut off from Catholic boys by Catholic priest, nuns and parents. . . my wife and I love her and believe Christ has already left the 99 to fetch her home. But let us be careful we give her a loving home to return too. :scratchchin:
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To advert our attention to the attitudes or failings of our lay brothers and sisters is a most grevious error and it is aggravated when we attempt to make a commentary on something radically different, the Catholic religion and education itself.
Sounds rather hypocritical considering your interviews, dont ya think?
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Response: We are Traditional. . . with connections in all camps. North Idaho/East Washington is one big pot of soup. Both of us started out N.O., went evangelical, back to N.O. and then into Tradition. We are veterans of the SSPX system.
The typical troublemaker...
:cop: :whistleblower: :whistleblower: :whistleblower:
While it doesnt matter, the person I got my first ignore from was a SGG cult member. It's interesting that I have now another, dont ya think? :wink:
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Welcome IdahoCharley, can you please explain what heart and emotional assent are? Do you believe that there is a dichotomy between heart and mind?
What? :confused1:
In your interview with Emma, you mentioned emotional assent, what do you mean by this? And further do you believe that there is a dichotomy between heart and mind?
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Whenever Charley is ready to settle down and have a serious conversation about a very serious topic I'll be here.
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Dont get your hopes high, Caminus. Charlie doesnt like debates... isnt that right, Charlie?
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Does anyone know how many trad grade schools there are in this country?
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He tries to state that he is just a know-nothing, regular old catholic, but that is not how he comes off when he speaks. It appeared as though he thought himself to be the theological advisor of the radio program.
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To advert our attention to the attitudes or failings of our lay brothers and sisters is a most grevious error and it is aggravated when we attempt to make a commentary on something radically different, the Catholic religion and education itself.
Sounds rather hypocritical considering your interviews, dont ya think?
That was from me. He seemed to agree, but ignored the ramifications.
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The quickest way to abandon your religion is to practice is because of our affections or lack thereof for our neighbor. I assure you that I do not adhere to Roman Catholicism because of those around me. Nor would I expect them to adhere to their religion because of me.
But Charley's modus is entirely backwards, thus he exhaults, Emma, objectively a true enemy of Christ, utterly devoid of divine Charity and supernatural Faith, while backbiting those who in fact are friends of Jesus Christ, their common sins notwithstanding.
Brand new member here, and right away you start insulting! Did you listen to the talks? There are 2 of them on the school that are about 2 hrs each. If you did, you would not talk like this.
I asked this radio host to come to this forum to see what is being said. Maybe others did as well.
Actually, you preach charity, and insult out of the other side of your mouth. You have 7 ignores. I would hope that every member of this forum would ignore you!
Caminus, Im so sick of your monopolizing every thread with your negativism and uncharitablness! :really-mad2:
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The quickest way to abandon your religion is to practice is because of our affections or lack thereof for our neighbor. I assure you that I do not adhere to Roman Catholicism because of those around me. Nor would I expect them to adhere to their religion because of me.
But Charley's modus is entirely backwards, thus he exhaults, Emma, objectively a true enemy of Christ, utterly devoid of divine Charity and supernatural Faith, while backbiting those who in fact are friends of Jesus Christ, their common sins notwithstanding.
Brand new member here, and right away you start insulting! Did you listen to the talks? There are 2 of them on the school that are about 2 hrs each. If you did, you would not talk like this.
I asked this radio host to come to this forum to see what is being said. Maybe others did as well.
Actually, you preach charity, and insult out of the other side of your mouth. You have 7 ignores. I would hope that every member of this forum would ignore you!
Caminus, Im so sick of your monopolizing every thread with your negativism and uncharitablness! :really-mad2:
I'm afraid you're just encouraging Caminus by expressing your exasperation.
You know there's something wrong when despair is met with laughter: yet that is what you might get from an SSPX priest.
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The quickest way to abandon your religion is to practice is because of our affections or lack thereof for our neighbor. I assure you that I do not adhere to Roman Catholicism because of those around me. Nor would I expect them to adhere to their religion because of me.
But Charley's modus is entirely backwards, thus he exhaults, Emma, objectively a true enemy of Christ, utterly devoid of divine Charity and supernatural Faith, while backbiting those who in fact are friends of Jesus Christ, their common sins notwithstanding.
Brand new member here, and right away you start insulting! Did you listen to the talks? There are 2 of them on the school that are about 2 hrs each. If you did, you would not talk like this.
I asked this radio host to come to this forum to see what is being said. Maybe others did as well.
Actually, you preach charity, and insult out of the other side of your mouth. You have 7 ignores. I would hope that every member of this forum would ignore you!
Caminus, Im so sick of your monopolizing every thread with your negativism and uncharitablness! :really-mad2:
I'm afraid you're just encouraging Caminus by expressing your exasperation.
You know there's something wrong when despair is met with laughter: yet that is what you might get from an SSPX priest.
Are you saying, Tele, that Caminus is an SSPX priest? I think, or I hope, I got it wrong? :shocked:
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Are you saying, Tele, that Caminus is an SSPX priest? I think, or I hope, I got it wrong? :shocked:
No, I'm not.
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Are you saying, Tele, that Caminus is an SSPX priest? I think, or I hope, I got it wrong? :shocked:
No, I'm not.
Thats good. I have a very high respect for the priesthood, and even tho I had a bad experience with an SSPX priest, I have met many good ones.
The talks on this radio blog were good.
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Brand new member here, and right away you start insulting! Did you listen to the talks? There are 2 of them on the school that are about 2 hrs each. If you did, you would not talk like this.
We're diagnosing a problem, I'm not insulting anyone. If his work was pure and good, he would receive nothing but praise from me. I did in fact listen to those talks, I commented on them earlier. Do you not read these threads?
I asked this radio host to come to this forum to see what is being said. Maybe others did as well.
Actually, you preach charity, and insult out of the other side of your mouth. You have 7 ignores. I would hope that every member of this forum would ignore you!
Considering the fact that you are defending the expression of a false charity, I'm not so sure you are qualified to give advice regarding this matter.
What can I say, I'm not afraid of controversy. People don't like what I say so they plug their ears.
Caminus, Im so sick of your monopolizing every thread with your negativism and uncharitablness!
Let's examine the issues dispassionately and we will then be able to determine who in fact is truly uncharitable. The man who emboldens an apostate from the faith and by flattery and sentimentalism confirms her in mortal sin or one who demands truth and justice?
On a higher level, is the Pope acting charitably when he implicitly confirms unbelievers in their emnity with God by complimenting their values and religions or the Catholic uncharitably who tells them they are in danger of eternal hell fire and explains why? Tell me who is being charitable here and on the contrary who is committing a very grave sin against charity itself. The flatterer or the truth teller?
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Caminus,
The talk show just joined this forum. He did have his kids in the schools of SSPX. The thread here is Growing Up Traditional. You dont know anything about the young girl Emma. To call her evil, is the epitamy of uncharitablemess. I asked you if you had any children. I didnt recall seeing your answer.
If to speak what you think is the truth, and you have to insult and name call, maybe it would be good for you to be silent!
You attacked me on a post when I tried to explain what happened to me at an SSPX chapel. The same tactics you employ were used on me then.:argue:
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I don't know what else to tell you. I listened to the show and gave my comments. I observed that the girl did evil along with the two men who were instigators.
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Emma is a Catholic who thinks she is a Baptist.
Do you also teach your children that there is no real consequences to our actions, at least in terms of the religion we profess and practice? That falling into heresy and schism by joining a false sect has no detrimental effect on the soul or is not a mortally sinful offense against God? If not, why would you intimate such a thing with this poor girl? What is so clouding your judgment regarding her? Is it your general animosity towards other Catholics?
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Charley and his family love Emma and they want her to come back, and they have said so.
What general animosity towards other Catholics?
:popcorn:
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To advert our attention to the attitudes or failings of our lay brothers and sisters is a most grevious error and it is aggravated when we attempt to make a commentary on something radically different, the Catholic religion and education itself.
Sounds rather hypocritical considering your interviews, dont ya think?
Hey :wave: I'm over here! Who was that you were quoting? :roll-laugh1:
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Emma is a Catholic who thinks she is a Baptist.
Do you also teach your children that there is no real consequences to our actions, at least in terms of the religion we profess and practice? That falling into heresy and schism by joining a false sect has no detrimental effect on the soul or is not a mortally sinful offense against God? If not, why would you intimate such a thing with this poor girl? What is so clouding your judgment regarding her? Is it your general animosity towards other Catholics?
Oh, you're back to me now? When did I ever tell Emma being baptist was ok?
As a matter of fact I spent a good 45 minutes explaining to Emma (off the air) the holes in her reasoning (or lack of).
She asked me if I would be willing to talk to her husband because I was getting to her. I went off for 10 years (Calvery Chapels) and now I am back.
The Shepherd is working on it as we speak. :pray:
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I am hostile to anything which puts Catholicism in a bad light because then people shy away and never learn to view it properly---SOULS ARE LOST! If we need to clean up our act, it must be accomplished internally. Not like Luther, but like Augustine.
Emerentiana, you are a good woman, so you must have had good motives for inviting CheekyCharley here. I can't figure out what they may have been, because it looks to me like being on Cathinfo just further disseminates an evil thing.
Perhaps you could tell us what you hoped to accomplish with all this, it would help. Right now I feel and sense a need to stand up for the Faith. Telesphorus had it right in my opinion. They are all headed the right way for a smack bottom. I only hope it doesn't go any further south than that.
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Emma is a Catholic who thinks she is a Baptist.
Do you also teach your children that there is no real consequences to our actions, at least in terms of the religion we profess and practice? That falling into heresy and schism by joining a false sect has no detrimental effect on the soul or is not a mortally sinful offense against God? If not, why would you intimate such a thing with this poor girl? What is so clouding your judgment regarding her? Is it your general animosity towards other Catholics?
Oh, you're back to me now? When did I ever tell Emma being baptist was ok?
As a matter of fact I spent a good 45 minutes explaining to Emma (off the air) the holes in her reasoning (or lack of).
She asked me if I would be willing to talk to her husband because I was getting to her. I went off for 10 years (Calvery Chapels) and now I am back.
The Shepherd is working on it as we speak. :pray:
So you did your damage on the air (see my previous comments) but saved all your good works for private? Nice.
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And that still doesn't change the fact that you reviled Catholic nuns (and others) while grotesquely attempting to lay a martyr for liberalism, self-love and indulgence at their feet.
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Sometimes when you go outside the box, you stay outside the box. It's a dangerous journey.
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Sometimes when you go outside the box, you stay outside the box. It's a dangerous journey.
This is why it is so heinous, so outrageous of these proud little academies and chapels continue to kick out Catholic children and families from their chapels and schools.
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Well, yes, Elizabeth. But did you know that Mousellini (sp) was one of Don John Bosco's boys. He hated kicking boys out and did it only if it was essential for the welfare of the other boys. Mousellini was one of his rejects. They said he was always a bully with a knife.
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No, I didn't know Mussolini had been one of Don Bosco's boys, wow!
In some circles its the bullies who happen to be related to the priest or teacher who bully with impunity. Obviously Don Bosco was not a bully or a liar, and he knew right from wrong. And the boys were orphans or their parents were poor and held no political sway one way or another-
Then there are good, veteran educators such as Fr. Scott who know well the problems associated with operating schools, and the value of a mutual trust between parents and school staff.
I trust you are not implying that the 'rejects' from these schools are 'bully with a knife' types'.
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Sometimes when you go outside the box, you stay outside the box. It's a dangerous journey.
This is why it is so heinous, so outrageous of these proud little academies and chapels continue to kick out Catholic children and families from their chapels and schools.
This is an unfair statement.
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No it's not.
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You trust correctly, Elizabeth. It never even crossed my mind or I wouldn't have said that. Thanks for correcting my spelling.
You do misunderstand one thing though. The children thrown out are not thrown out of the box. They alone can step out and if the situation was one of phoney Catholics throwing them out, then they are the ones outside the box. Our Lord said don't fear the one who can only kill the body...
Any chance that we can tighten up who we call Catholic and who by their behavior obviously do not even try to live a Catholic life?
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Oh thank goodness {{{Trinity}}}
Many years ago I had recurring nightmares-the theme was generally post war desolation, and looking for fellow Catholics.
The terror would be meeting up with some saintly-looking adult or angelic child who turned out to be a demon, but thinking they had the mark on their forehead or hand.
Somehow by God's grace we need to be loving enough that others will recognise us as Catholics.
Do you remember when you were very little, and you could sort of just tell?
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Children and animals have uncanny abilities. What a nightmare and to think it is coming true!
You hit the nail on the head. Jesus told us to love one another, he never told us to love the devil. Just have to tell the difference and keep our own heads clear.
It really burns me when people go around acting like beasts and saying they are Catholic.
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No it's not.
Are you referring to the school in Idaho under discussion?
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I'm making a general statement, calling it heinous to deprive Catholic children of a Catholic education in times such as these.
I believe the scope of this problem is grossly underestimated.
Right off the bat, there is the fear of making Traditional Catholicism look bad-but that's just the beginning.
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It is because of people with attitudes like Charley that "traditional Catholicism" gets a bad name. People pay way too much attention to the faults, real or perceived, of their neighbors and they seem to think the laity themselves constitute the religion itself.
Another problem is one of constriction, where traditional Catholicism has been reduced to a tiny fraction of Catholics it feels like we are cramped together. Add to this the tendency to keep looking at our neighbor to see how holy he is because he is "traditional" and it creates tension. This also tends to aggravate whath would otherwise be small problems.
Extra measures must be taken to give people a little breathing room, but that doesn't mean we should cave into the principles of self-indulgence, liberalism or any other error. We also tend to want to force the process of sanctification, first for ourselves, then our neighbor's too, rather than taking the posture of effacement and peaceful abandonment to Providence.
I don't know who is unjustly kicking Catholics out of Catholic schools, but almost any problem can be corrected under normal circuмstances of general good will. I don't think generalized statement are warranted or fair. These things should be considered on a case by case basis.
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These little communities become a means for certain families to pursue their social ambitions. To be "big fish" in the little "trad pond." That is the root of most of these problems, as far as I can tell.
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I've never experienced that where I go to Mass, but I can certainly empathize. What was once marginal, now is intensified due to the size of these communities. A bad family that gains psychological power could cause serious problems if the priest is weak or distracted.
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Emma is a Catholic who thinks she is a Baptist.
Do you also teach your children that there is no real consequences to our actions, at least in terms of the religion we profess and practice? That falling into heresy and schism by joining a false sect has no detrimental effect on the soul or is not a mortally sinful offense against God? If not, why would you intimate such a thing with this poor girl? What is so clouding your judgment regarding her? Is it your general animosity towards other Catholics?
I don't really have the time to get into this controversial topic with the attention it deserves, but I'd like to make this one point --
I agree with Caminus' post (quoted here).
There's something wrong with that way of looking at things -- it's just like the Novus Ordo prelates claiming that Muslims worship the "same god" and all that.
When someone attends a Baptist church, we can assume they are a heretic. That should result in sadness, zeal for their conversion, etc. but should we foolishly presume they are already Catholic, or as good as Catholic? Of course not.
We SHOULD have a healthy hope to convert others, however, and always be charitable to everyone we meet -- you never know when you will be the person that attracts someone (or repels them!) from Catholicism.
Matthew
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I'm making a general statement, calling it heinous to deprive Catholic children of a Catholic education in times such as these.
I believe the scope of this problem is grossly underestimated.
Right off the bat, there is the fear of making Traditional Catholicism look bad-but that's just the beginning.
The pastor at ICA has kicked out over thirty boys in three years- this is what I was told by one of the priest. He was not complaining; he was proud of it. I am sure the numbers are higher. I just recalled this Elizabeth and thought you would like to know.
Also Elizabeth, the next interview with the “Two women”, (one my wife) I know was a free for all- but like one person said, “that’s why people hire lawyers” because they say stupid things in the heat of the moment.
For so many years we have been warned Not to speak ill of any priest; of the Church; of the Society. Like so many we have murmured amongst ourselves and nothing changes. We meet with the priest, no change. There is no damage control.
Benefactors make this place run- and little old ladies give money for the education of the little Catholic BOYS! Not the schools. The schools are for the boys!
“Here is our fruit! We have five boys in seminary this year!”
How many young men are in the parish?
How many boys does it take to screw in a light bulb? :idea:
Yes we bumble across the web and say impulsive things, but our experiences are real! We live here. We don’t just talk about pools, we are in the pool.
Benefactors should beware. Are they investing in boys or schools? And what kind of return are they expecting for their money?
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Tsk tsk! Is there any way to weed out the culprits and leave the reputation of the school intact? Eliminate all the knife toting relatives and social lions?
Yes we must first determine what we will bear with patiently, but those who constitute a danger to others must be removed.
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The pastor at ICA has kicked out over thirty boys in three years- this is what I was told by one of the priest. He was not complaining; he was proud of it. I am sure the numbers are higher. I just recalled this Elizabeth and thought you would like to know.
[/quote]
Well, this is gravely disordered. This shows a type of cruelty which probably needs to be experienced in order to be appreciated.
It will create an atmosphere full of suspicion, back-stabbing, favoritism, calumny and desperation among parents and children. It creates a cult-like situation.
That is seriously nothing to be proud about. I doubt the reputation of the school will suffer; the bullies know well how to cover their tracks.
Those left in the wake of destruction will be marginalised and calumnated. Parents whose kids were struggling just like yours will now avoid you like the plague- -their poor kid just got a promotion when yours was run off!
I had the opportunity to speak at length with an expert on school bullying. He treated extreme cases, both the court-ordered sadistic perps and victims ranging from unjustly expelled to having been tortured. Robert Besenius, Ph.d. He quit his private practice and only does workshops across the US, because the demand was too great to work with individuals.
The culprits won't get weeded out any time soon. Every time a child is forced out it nourishes their sense of superiority and corrupts those who must remain silent in order to remain in the school.
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These little communities become a means for certain families to pursue their social ambitions. To be "big fish" in the little "trad pond." That is the root of most of these problems, as far as I can tell.
BINGO
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satanic academia? Dominica can speak of that, but it was NO.
I wouldn't be too sure they won't get weeded out or otherwise come to a bad end. The county D.A.who tried to take my daughter away because I was home schooling wound up losing her office a few months later. Of course, I took the whole show to Our Lady. I can cite other cases, too.
I don't think we should be surprised the satan is working overtime to polish off the Catholic Church. We must be smarter than he is.
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Charley, please forgive us if we don't take your word or version of the story at face value. You may be able to stir up trouble among some who have legitimate concerns, for they are already sensitive and predisposed, but your superficial story along with your account of details leaves much to be desired. If you had any credibility, you would have engaged our criticism here in a direct and forthright manner.
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Harsh, Caminus! No way a person can deal with each and every thing. And he is out numbered.
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What is harsh is the sins of calumny, detraction, reviling, participating in the sins of another, and other false philosophies implicitly advocated by Charley. This is a matter of strict justice. To approach it in a whimsical, farcical, flippant manner betrays his spirit even moreso.
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Oh my! I really should start getting more sleep. I'm actually sticking up for the SSPX.... :smirk:
That's OK by me.
:alcohol:
me too, they were really the few that during the 70's tried to hold things together.......and gave ordination to some SV clergy that claimed confusion, up to right after ordination, then poof, became SV-they got their goodies and ran..Alexandria had some bad experiences and understandably put off by SSPX, though it has turned into bitterness......aw crap, there I go again "reading minds".....back to that kite.....
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Emma is a Catholic who thinks she is a Baptist.
If that's what you're learning out there, then no wonder why you're condemning the school.
never mind the poster jumps in and immediately calls you cam-anus and is rather juvenile and flippant about much of the rest......so, he basically just babbles I guess.
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Response: We are Traditional. . . with connections in all camps. North Idaho/East Washington is one big pot of soup. Both of us started out N.O., went evangelical, back to N.O. and then into Tradition. We are veterans of the SSPX system.
The typical troublemaker...
:cop: :whistleblower: :whistleblower: :whistleblower:
While it doesnt matter, the person I got my first ignore from was a SGG cult member. It's interesting that I have now another, dont ya think? :wink:
true, Charley certainly seems rather confused and has :jumping2: a lot all over......
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The quickest way to abandon your religion is to practice is because of our affections or lack thereof for our neighbor. I assure you that I do not adhere to Roman Catholicism because of those around me. Nor would I expect them to adhere to their religion because of me.
But Charley's modus is entirely backwards, thus he exhaults, Emma, objectively a true enemy of Christ, utterly devoid of divine Charity and supernatural Faith, while backbiting those who in fact are friends of Jesus Christ, their common sins notwithstanding.
Brand new member here, and right away you start insulting! Did you listen to the talks? There are 2 of them on the school that are about 2 hrs each. If you did, you would not talk like this.
I asked this radio host to come to this forum to see what is being said. Maybe others did as well.
Actually, you preach charity, and insult out of the other side of your mouth. You have 7 ignores. I would hope that every member of this forum would ignore you!
Caminus, Im so sick of your monopolizing every thread with your negativism and uncharitablness! :really-mad2:
thanks for the bright red and the large letters indicating shouting.......you must have missed Charley's flippancy, he calling Caminus right off the bat Cam-anus.....try re-reading the posts and then see if you like being called, by a new poster and stranger an anus!
also, you end by stating Caminus is uncharitable, negative, then urge us all to ignore him...hmm....again, would you like the rest of us to start calling you "Emerentiana-anus"???? I dont and likely, you would not either!
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Time to put it in the past. We have registered our displeasure and now should meet and greet another soul for the love of God.
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I don't know what else to tell you. I listened to the show and gave my comments. I observed that the girl did evil along with the two men who were instigators.
you were supposed to, I guess, do the female thing-gush, get excited and say the talks were wonderful.....
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Welcome IdahoCharley, can you please explain what heart and emotional assent are? Do you believe that there is a dichotomy between heart and mind?
What? :confused1:
In your interview with Emma, you mentioned emotional assent, what do you mean by this? And further do you believe that there is a dichotomy between heart and mind?
I am not the one who said that. . . but you have been so nice in asking; again! I will give it a shot.
I believe there is a dichotomy between intellect and feeling?
Intellect can substantiate ones feelings- but more often than not, feelings have little to do with the intellect. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
Emma feels free of Tradition; her intellect will bring her back. . .
How does this apply to us Trads? Mormons listen only to Mormons. JW’s listen only to JW’s. There are SSPX people who listen only to SSPX priest. As Catholics we are supposed to stay inside the box. Don’t read bad books, don’t listen to bad radio, only read pre-1962 publications!
Sometimes we have to go outside of the box to find the box.
Now see what you made go and do. . . someone is going to step on me for sure. :scared2:
reading too much, though, can confuse and lead one away from teh truth. We dwell in Christ, not in a box.
could you clarify more what you mean about going outside the box, a little clarity please on that,,,,thanks....
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I am hostile to anything which puts Catholicism in a bad light because then people shy away and never learn to view it properly---SOULS ARE LOST! If we need to clean up our act, it must be accomplished internally. Not like Luther, but like Augustine.
Emerentiana, you are a good woman, so you must have had good motives for inviting CheekyCharley here. I can't figure out what they may have been, because it looks to me like being on Cathinfo just further disseminates an evil thing.
Perhaps you could tell us what you hoped to accomplish with all this, it would help. Right now I feel and sense a need to stand up for the Faith. Telesphorus had it right in my opinion. They are all headed the right way for a smack bottom. I only hope it doesn't go any further south than that.
I read your cheeky charlie nad had to :roll-laugh1: but true, he seems to hate it too when we talk amongst ourselves, guess all Q&A have to go to him.....
the shepard is working on it? geehs, flippancy huh....wonder what he will beleive in enxt :popcorn:
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Sometimes when you go outside the box, you stay outside the box. It's a dangerous journey.
substitue box for ark and not good at all, big waves, a lot of rain and getting wet.....oh and drowning....
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Oh thank goodness {{{Trinity}}}
Many years ago I had recurring nightmares-the theme was generally post war desolation, and looking for fellow Catholics.
The terror would be meeting up with some saintly-looking adult or angelic child who turned out to be a demon, but thinking they had the mark on their forehead or hand.
Somehow by God's grace we need to be loving enough that others will recognise us as Catholics.
Do you remember when you were very little, and you could sort of just tell?
N odemon looks angelic, did you here that evil people always broadcast there intentions, all one has to do is get a picture of them and blow it up.. :roll-laugh1: :roll-laugh2:
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Harsh, Caminus! No way a person can deal with each and every thing. And he is out numbered.
he came here, his free will and choice....
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Time to put it in the past. We have registered our displeasure and now should meet and greet another soul for the love of God.
thats fair....I want him to join the Belloc Kite Flying Club... :roll-laugh2:
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CheekyCharlies responses read like an utterance of a mentally deficient eight year old. I had a hard time deciphering them. I let my pug dog Gomez read them and he was able to explain what they meant as they were at his level.
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The woman in the interview is filled with the pride of Satan and should not be on a Catholic radio program.
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CheekyCharlies responses read like an utterance of a mentally deficient eight year old. I had a hard time deciphering them. I let my pug dog Gomez read them and he was able to explain what they meant as they were at his level.
cheeky was hard to read, glad I was not the only one having trouble, though you at least admitted it...dogs good at sniffing out things...
seemed a bit to flippant, like some conversation on EWTN's Life on the Rock or something...walkin, talkin.....
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May I join your kite flying club, Belloc? Perhaps we will do better at that then these threads. But you are wrong; satan can very much appear as an angel of light. However the real test is to discern the bad guys from the good, when the bad guys are so darned adept.
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May I join your kite flying club, Belloc? Perhaps we will do better at that then these threads. But you are wrong; satan can very much appear as an angel of light. However the real test is to discern the bad guys from the good, when the bad guys are so darned adept.
yes I know, but some posters here, at least in the paste, thought that you could look at someone and clearly see they were evil...that is likely what was meant. I was engaging is light humor......
sure, the club could always use more members....
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LOL As you said, Alexandria. A very thought provoking post.
Seriously, guys, we've covered the ground of what's right and what's wrong. Now it would behoove us to forgive and forget. And get on with fixing things.
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:wink:
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Flip! It won't do it for me. :laugh1:
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After spending a few days with this chat group. . . I feel better about my life in North Idaho. The man with a knife is accussing me of being a man with a knife.
If I, as an adult, can be eaten alive because of my inability to express myself with proficiency. What chance does a child have of defending themselves against a SSPX academy?
Yes I am a goof-ball but some of you are just plain mean.
Tradition burned Saint Joan of Arc at the stake.
I have met you all before. The simple and the Educated. The friendly and the mean. The sinner and the Self-righteous.
Maybe I'll provide you with another target another time. But this is tiring. . . where do you get the energy?
For old times sake I'll leave you some Smilies
Just call me "cheeky"!
:dancing-banana: :bob-marley: :dancing-banana: :bob-marley: :dancing-banana: :bob-marley: :dancing-banana:
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Unbelievable.
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Caminus,
We oftentimes do not agree on some things, but you made some very valid points that should be adressed by charly. Apparently, he is still a child.
Andy
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doubtful he will now join our kite flying club, maybe he will join the faith
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Oh, no, Charley. You can't leave now. You had the courage to start this whole thing, now have the courage and the humility to finish it. No guarantees, of course, but let's at least try to clean out that school and put it back in the service of Christ. Let's not lie down and let satan win.
Theresa of Avila said God, Theresa and two dollars can do anything. That's a Catholic attitude. Let's show the world what Catholics are made of.
I thought you would take the nickname Cheeky in good part. Was I wrong?
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It is easy for those who don't have any children in school to misunderstand what the landscape looks like.
:sign-surrender:
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His comparision of the baptist "lady" in the interview to St. Joan of Arc was evil.
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His comparision of the baptist "lady" in the interview to St. Joan of Arc was evil.
If he'd said she was an apostate at the beginning (could he have not known that?) it would've been obvious what was going on. To give an apostate a platform to tear down fellow Catholics is simply wrong, he must know that.
He needs to get a thicker skin if he wants to hang around internet forums.
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I don't think any of us could have stood up to the full weight of censure he got, nor been able to answer all the questions. I don't think they were wrong to fight against the wrong in their school, only in how they did it. If we can't come up with a better way, then we should have shut up from the get go. This is where we put our Catholic money where our Catholic mouths are.
If he didn't know it before, Telesphorus, I think he knows it now.
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Catholics get stupid ideas all the time. The difference between the good ones and the bad ones is that the former don't carry them out or seek serious counsel while the latter do whatever comes to mind and assumes their work is from God. Not even the greatest of Saints attempted to accomplish truly inspired works without first seeking counsel and permission. But today, the most egregious projects are carried out with with rash impugnity and a smug confidence that since we are Catholic it must be of God.
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Good point, Caminus.
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Caminus,
We oftentimes do not agree on some things, but you made some very valid points
Andy
Yes, he did, and the scales from my eyes (to a point, I won't get carried away :laugh1:).
The "evil traditionalist", right? He'll (Charley) meet up with the novus ordo version soon enough.
Like St. Basil the Great said, sanctify yourself first before you attempt to reform others.
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It is easy for those who don't have any children in school to misunderstand what the landscape looks like.
:sign-surrender:
ok, granted first hand experinece would help, then again, I do not have cancer but can relate due to knowing what suffering is like in genreal and those that I have know that have had cancer. I know the effects of bullets, without getting shot....
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I don't think any of us could have stood up to the full weight of censure he got, nor been able to answer all the questions. I don't think they were wrong to fight against the wrong in their school, only in how they did it. If we can't come up with a better way, then we should have shut up from the get go. This is where we put our Catholic money where our Catholic mouths are.
If he didn't know it before, Telesphorus, I think he knows it now.
again-he came here of his own free will and some prior research of this site by him would be helpful, esp before he starts posting......and then, posting gibber-gabber......ever get in the middle of a Reformed discussion group? not fun, but then, it was my fault for stepping in it.....
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IdahoCharley came to this tread on page 4 , then went into critiqueing many of us here off the bat, calling Caminus a anus......not too sympthetic of him.
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All of this is granted. But we need to bring this to a positive conclusion or it will all have been for nothing. We must all keep in mind that man's anger does not work God's justice, and take proper counsel, as Caminus pointed out.
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Personal vendettas of this nature serve no purpose. The bottom line is that they are angry...mostly at themselves.
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then lets try to agree, all, to end this thread...
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Ta da!
THE END
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Ta da!
THE END
Is that really it?? What was the conclusion??
Granted, I've mostly only skimmed these pages, but what I saw seemed a bit too wrapped up in name-calling to have much substance. So, what exactly was the conclusion ... can someone sum it up for me?
Is this radio program really calling out evil-doers or is this just a case of a person with bad experiences putting their complaints in the public sphere?
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I loved the "Women of Tradition" episode.
Many, many people have been kicked out of these schools. There have been numerous nervous breakdowns and stress-related illnesses of those who stay and offer it up. Some people think they should have been kicked out, and that they are sinning by going public.
One person who made it through to graduation, Emma is particularly despised. Some posters are very critical of the co-host Charley who did not thrash Emma for leaving the Church to marry a Baptist.
Then there was a flame war against Charley whom some feel is doing a great evil by being so soft on Emma on the air. His family has known her since she was little and they love her dearly.
I am very supportive of Charley and co. All of them experienced financila meltdowns, left family and careers behind to move to a particular school. Their children were kicked out and they have been shunned by those whose children manage to succeed at the school.
They feel that Charity is missing, and some posters here think that Charley is the bad guy.
People are very passionate about this topic, and obviously Belloc, Alexandria and Caminus want the thread to end. Emerentiana, Anonymouse, Charley and I like it.
I hope I got it right. Charley uses even more emoticons than I do, so that may be an issue. (I would use more if there were more to choose from because they give me a heady sense of power.)
:popcorn: Like this one. It means I'm scared of what somebody might write next, but I can't help looking.
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Catholics get stupid ideas all the time. The difference between the good ones and the bad ones is that the former don't carry them out or seek serious counsel while the latter do whatever comes to mind and assumes their work is from God. Not even the greatest of Saints attempted to accomplish truly inspired works without first seeking counsel and permission. But today, the most egregious projects are carried out with with rash impugnity and a smug confidence that since we are Catholic it must be of God.
Sometimes when one has so much zeal and fervor, any idea that sounds like a sacrifice or a heroic devotion seems very attractive. I think mose of rash vows and thoughless promises are made in that situation. You may even find encorgement from a saintly book or a dream. full of ferver you accept some resposibility, but after some time, you will be confronted with your weakness, and may fall into despair.
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I still can't say too much because I haven't listened to the interviews, do to no working sound on my computer. But the thread has been interesting, and I hope continues to shed light on the problems faced by families trying to raise Catholic children. These schools, because they are few and far between, have a monopoly. The people running them, in a sense, have absolute power. Where do you take your children once they are booted from the traditional school?
The parents have already removed the children from the world, and probably made huge sacrifices to send them to this school. Now do they put them back into the world? Or do they keep them at home, isolated from the world, and now isolated from the traddie community that had become their world?
That's why I hope and pray families have a backup plan, especially if they consider moving far from family and friends, all for the sake of tradition. There is nothing traditional or Catholic about this type of behavior.
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There is nothing traditional or Catholic about this type of behavior.
That is soooo right Anonymous!!!! I think it is satan trying to polish off the Church.
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I still can't say too much because I haven't listened to the interviews, do to no working sound on my computer. But the thread has been interesting, and I hope continues to shed light on the problems faced by families trying to raise Catholic children. These schools, because they are few and far between, have a monopoly. The people running them, in a sense, have absolute power. Where do you take your children once they are booted from the traditional school?
The parents have already removed the children from the world, and probably made huge sacrifices to send them to this school. Now do they put them back into the world? Or do they keep them at home, isolated from the world, and now isolated from the traddie community that had become their world?
That's why I hope and pray families have a backup plan, especially if they consider moving far from family and friends, all for the sake of tradition. There is nothing traditional or Catholic about this type of behavior.
I so agree, anon!
This is what Charlie was trying to bring out! People move a long ways and make great sacrifices for Catholic education, and come away disillusioned. Emma's mom did that!
I would have liked to see Charlie hang in there. Maybe he would take suggestions for future guests that the forum would like to see interviewed.
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After spending a few days with this chat group. . . I feel better about my life in North Idaho. The man with a knife is accussing me of being a man with a knife.
If I, as an adult, can be eaten alive because of my inability to express myself with proficiency. What chance does a child have of defending themselves against a SSPX academy?
Yes I am a goof-ball but some of you are just plain mean.
Tradition burned Saint Joan of Arc at the stake.
I have met you all before. The simple and the Educated. The friendly and the mean. The sinner and the Self-righteous.
Maybe I'll provide you with another target another time. But this is tiring. . . where do you get the energy?
For old times sake I'll leave you some Smilies
Just call me "cheeky"!
:dancing-banana: :bob-marley: :dancing-banana: :bob-marley: :dancing-banana: :bob-marley: :dancing-banana:
Please don't go.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
come Bach! :judge:
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Jim and I have discussed this thread and we would like to respond as follows,
1. I, Charley, was out-gunned. I have never been a part of a chat group before. Jim asked me to respond and I did. I have a sense of humor- and I used it.
2. We have no intention of dropping the subject. If I leave this thread it is Not ending the subject. I just do not have the time it takes to give intelligent responses (Can I get an Amen Caminus?).
The subject “Growing up Catholic” has pushed some buttons.
• How does the group think we should proceed? Only constructive input please!
• Would some of you like to come on the air in the near future and ask questions of our guest? If we were able to get Emma or John back on the show or the “Women of Tradition”?
• Do you have contacts for relevant guest speakers (related subject matter)?
Did “Catholic Education” ever really exist for the common man?
Is the SSPX a cloning operation- walk like me; talk like me; dress like me; think like me: and if our children do not match their cookie-cutter priest temperament recipe. . . are they out of here!
Maybe the solution is no solution at all. Maybe all we can do is warn these young parents, who are in search of the "Catholic Utopian" dream, to tread slowly.
Got to go. . . the wife is calling!
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Perhaps we can address the questions about your show on another thread. I'm not a talk show fan myself. On this thread we should finish what we started.
It would help a lot if you took the time to tell us the whole story of those who are ruining this school. Who they are and what their positions are and what each one did. You know, Fr. X and Mr. Y and Mrs Z. Also who might be in a position to end their careers.
Perhaps, too, we could be utilized to heal some of the damage to those who were hurt.
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so much for ending this thread.......
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Jim and I have discussed this thread and we would like to respond as follows,
1. I, Charley, was out-gunned. I have never been a part of a chat group before. Jim asked me to respond and I did. I have a sense of humor- and I used it.
2. We have no intention of dropping the subject. If I leave this thread it is Not ending the subject. I just do not have the time it takes to give intelligent responses (Can I get an Amen Caminus?).
The subject “Growing up Catholic” has pushed some buttons.
• How does the group think we should proceed? Only constructive input please!
• Would some of you like to come on the air in the near future and ask questions of our guest? If we were able to get Emma or John back on the show or the “Women of Tradition”?
• Do you have contacts for relevant guest speakers (related subject matter)?
Did “Catholic Education” ever really exist for the common man?
Is the SSPX a cloning operation- walk like me; talk like me; dress like me; think like me: and if our children do not match their cookie-cutter priest temperament recipe. . . are they out of here!
Maybe the solution is no solution at all. Maybe all we can do is warn these young parents, who are in search of the "Catholic Utopian" dream, to tread slowly.
Got to go. . . the wife is calling!
to the outgunned part-not really, many here have made some positive comments-reread thread and see. Others ahve asked you to stay. Jim could have been a posting ally, that would have given you more support.
Proceed by all means, but have a limit on what is discussed and steer a bit more, rebuff those taht attack or say something out of whack...a free for all turns into a riot easily.
SSPX does not as a rule make people into clones-every organization has people that think they should, but the cloning is much more prevelant in buisness,govt, public ed,etc. and why ask about SSPX? what about SV groups? NO?
did Catholic ed exist for the common man? you bet, I went through K-10th grade and many kids with me had assistance.Monks would train kids,etc. Was not just for the rich, why would you think it was ?
there are solutions, but it takes a prayer, a plan and an effort..shoot high for the ideal, do not settle......
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Good show, Belloc. Especially the prayer, plan and effort part. I too believe there is a solution, and I'm counting on the brains and goodwill of the people here to find it.
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Charlie (I hope I spelled your name correctly) I agree about warning others, especially if they are thinking of moving to a traditional enclave in search of a Catholic utopia. I think it's our duty to warn others, if only to encourage them to have some sort of backup plan.
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did Catholic ed exist for the common man? you bet, I went through K-10th grade and many kids with me had assistance.Monks would train kids,etc. Was not just for the rich, why would you think it was ?
there are solutions, but it takes a prayer, a plan and an effort..shoot high for the ideal, do not settle......
Many of the refugees of school X never dreamed that Catholics of any flavor would cater only to the rich. The very idea would never occur to parents. Maybe there is a different mind-set outside of the USA?
Ages ago only the rich were educated, and then only boys. Is there some effort to restore something like the former grandeur of the days of Kings and Queens? I don't know.
I do know that Anonymouse is correct. There is a monopoly of the private traditional Catholic Schools. These schools do not enjoy the funding from the N.O. Diocese and they rely on the rich to support themselves. It would be naive to think that the generous benefactors are not also powerful in their ways.
What about tutoring, childcare and food? Our tutors cost $50.00 per hour. That's thousands of dollars for one child. Usually girls are more diligent about sitting down to do homework. But many parents have kids who must be supervised or they will never finish. When the family is large, and everyone needs dinner and baths and the homework load is too big, who is going to have the academic advantage? Either the geniuses or the wealthy or the favorites.
Some think this is a good thing, others despise it.
And if Emma was so terrible, why was she hired to teach in the rad school in the first place?
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I guess I've been sheltered from all these terrible things. Thank you again, Bishop Mark.
I can tell you that we are filthy poor, as my son once said, and we are made just as welcome as anyone else in our church and school. If we have a problem, the bishop is right there for us and so are the priests, sisters and brothers. His Excellency even put my daughter under obedience to tell him if she has financial problems. And he helps her if she does.
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Hi all I'm Jim the host of Backyard Radtrads. Thank you all for your wonderful responses both pro and con.
Do to time contstraints, and my horrible writing abilities I would not be able to answer the numerous points raised on this thread. It would take a book to try and refute some of them !!
I would love to set up a date and time in advance say a wed at 8pm EST when I'll try to have John, a lady from the parish, perhaps Emma (if she's willing) and of course me and Charlie to answer live your excellent questions. Is there an interest in this? I don't want to set this up and then no one bothers to call in !!
I can also take questions by email and answer them on the show .
I just ask to remember that we are all brothers in the faith and have respect for each other. Anyone can hide behind a keyboard, but a live talk show takes some guts. I know Trads are up to the challenge, one thing we are not short of his hot air!!
Please respond on this thread if you would be willing to particapate in say two weeks.
I'm gonna have a Palestinan Catholic on next week who lives in Jerusalem, to get his perpestive on the mess in the middle East.
JMJ
Jim
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I guess I've been sheltered from all these terrible things. Thank you again, Bishop Mark.
I can tell you that we are filthy poor, as my son once said, and we are made just as welcome as anyone else in our church and school. If we have a problem, the bishop is right there for us and so are the priests, sisters and brothers. His Excellency even put my daughter under obedience to tell him if she has financial problems. And he helps her if she does.
At the Mount it seems the poor are treated better than those with means, and Father never turns away anyone who can't pay tuition, in fact sometime, I feel families take advantage of Father's charity; there are programs there for helping out if families can help instead of pay, but even those sometime are waved for particular reasons.
Last year they came up with a great program, each family must do 50 goal hours, those are help hours, i.e. cleaning the church once a month, ironing linens for the Church, raking leaves off the property, working on the yearly auction and more. This not only helps the Church but gets the people out talking to each other, since we are not like the novus ordo who gather during their service for conversation with each other, forgetting God.
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OK, excuse me, now I'm ticked. This was all about promoting a talk show??????
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jmid, I certainly hope you get some takers, since I couldn't get the audio to work when I tried I really don't know exactly what is going on, except for what I read here.
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OK, excuse me, now I'm ticked. This was all about promoting a talk show??????
I didn't see it that way Trinity, I think it is more of a challenge.
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I just ask to remember that we are all brothers in the faith and have respect for each other.
If you had done that in the first place, no one would have objected. Read the original post in this thread, you claimed that an entire Catholic school mocked the virtue of charity, implying, among other things, that you are the few who really understand this virtue and how it is properly manifested. When the grounds upon which you made the claimed were examined and found wanting, Charley redirects his ad hominem towards people here. I'm not seeing the point in this little exercise.
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A challenge to what, Myrna? Get on the air and fight over the Church like a bunch of dogs over a bone? At what point do we give a care about God, Church and souls? If these people are Catholic it is so with a small c. They don't show any interest in addressing the evils they said they got on the air to expose; it appears to me that they just want to break a leg.
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gulp! :wine-drinking:
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Jim,
I am very interested to hear your talk from the man from Jeruselem.
Hoping you will have the twin Radecki priests on, as I suggested. They have a book called Tumultuous Times, which is a great history of the church councils.
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And I hope you will treat them with the dignity they deserve as priests of Jesus Christ and sons of Mary.
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wow!
lets all take a few moments to cool down and say a quick prayer for faith and unity-through faith in Christ and His Church... :pray: :incense:
afterwards, when said and doen, we can then :cheers: and do more :reading:
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OK, excuse me, now I'm ticked. This was all about promoting a talk show??????
No Trinity, Jim has no finacial gain from getting listeners. Come on. . . pour a glass and breath-
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I never quit breathing. I'm sure Jim gets something out of that program and I'm sure there is pressure to get another show lined up. But did you two ever think about all the souls who will turn away from Catholicism now that they've heard your portrayal of it as evil?
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How has Jim portrayed the Church as evil?
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Catering to the rich (human respect), kicking out innocent children, prudish nuns.
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Fair enough, Trin. Something to consider!
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I'm not saying these things didn't happen and more besides. I'm just saying it shouldn't have been broadcast, but addressed in other ways. The saints, when they saw evil, would go and pray about it.
Jesus said scandals would come, but woe to those by whom it came. I'm wondering how many woes come to those who broadcast it. And I'm hoping that the worst that comes to this group is a good dressing down.
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I never quit breathing. I'm sure Jim gets something out of that program and I'm sure there is pressure to get another show lined up. But did you two ever think about all the souls who will turn away from Catholicism now that they've heard your portrayal of it as evil?
Brilliant, Trinity. This has been my contention all along.
Furthermore, why don't you people consult your current pastors for guidance? Do you really think they would go along with this? If boys were being sodomized, young girls sɛҳuąƖly abused or children being beaten to a pulp, that's a different story.
Also, there are TWO SIDES to every story. All we've heard is one. Not very just. Guilty until proven innocent?
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Catholic schools running off an inordinate number of students and families are a problem.
Parents deserve to be cautioned about what they are potentially getting into when making such radical measures to enroll their children in certain schools.
If you can't listen to the interviews, how would you know that the conversations portray Catholicism as evil Alexandria?
A co-host has stated that the pastor affiliated with the schools has no problem with the large number of students who have been asked to leave. This in itself indicates a problem with the school, particularly as good Catholic parents want their children to be somewhat protected from the evils of modern society.
This would be a red flag for any school whatsoever.
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And where did I say that Elizabeth?
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I think you have me confused with another poster. A retraction would be nice.
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I never quit breathing. I'm sure Jim gets something out of that program and I'm sure there is pressure to get another show lined up. But did you two ever think about all the souls who will turn away from Catholicism now that they've heard your portrayal of it as evil?
Brilliant, Trinity. This has been my contention all along.
See the quote which says,"now that they've heard your portrayal of it as evil'? I can't figure out what you need me to retract.
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Elizabeth, is my name Trinity?
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I didn't need you to retract anything, Elizabeth. I was responding to Charley.
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Back Yard Rad Trad radio network has the talk Catholics in Jeruselem! Its now on the radio site! Listen, all! http://www.blogtalkradio.com/backyardradtrads/2010/06/23/catholics-in-jerusalem [/u]
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Trinity,
must apologize for the assumption you were a man-why, do not know, but thats what I thought you were until today-looking through posts,etc, noted you were female....
sorry, really had it in my mind you were a male....
continue...
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That's ok, Belloc. I've had to apologize to you twice, now. Even as old and decrepit as I am I still have a temper and I lose it sometimes. I'm going to get to the bottom of your position yet. Either there's merit or there isn't. I want to know.
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looked at your response-temper is normal, sometimes responses are not....for any and all of this that goes for...
Long life, good health to you, may He work miracles if it is in His will :cheers:
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Ditto!
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http://www.blogtalkradio.com/backyardradtrads/2010/06/23/catholics-in-jerusalem
Im posting this again! It was a wonderful talk! Great insight on our brothers in Christ, the Palestinian Catholics are doing.
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Fascinating talk. Hope we make it to the Holy Land one day.