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Author Topic: Growing Up Traditional  (Read 24107 times)

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Offline tradlover

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Growing Up Traditional
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2010, 10:40:43 AM »
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  • I love your shows.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #16 on: June 10, 2010, 10:58:30 AM »
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  • I only saw 2 interviews. Where is the third?

    Also who is conducting the interview?

    What is his point of view? Neo-Cath? Lib? Trad?

    Anyone who knows this, please let me know. Thanks.

    Haven't listened to them yet.


    Offline Alexandria

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    « Reply #17 on: June 10, 2010, 11:42:15 AM »
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  • I haven't listened to these since I am unable.  But, if this girl is either one of the two of I am thinking about (which is why I asked if their real names were used), there's more to the story.

    Also, walking away from the faith is prevalent all over and it matters not whether you are novus ordo, SSPX or sede.  For every girl like her at St. Dominic's, there are dozens who turned out well.  

    If the truth be known, if any school today was run like the one I went to pre-VII, they'd be closed down.  No parent today would stand for the their children being disciplined the way we were.  The schools would have the CPS all over them if they ever even tried to run a school along those lines in this lax and undisciplined day and age.

    No one is looking to escape from anything.  It's like someone already said, we just want to be with our own kind.  There was a time when your neighborhoods were like that - all good Catholics.  Those days are gone.  However, I wouldn't advise anyone to uproot themselves for what they think will be a traditional haven because they don't exist.  And I would never in a million years advise anyone to uproot themselves from the New York City metropolitan area to the Pacific Northwest.  

    No one is hoarding any faith.  Most of us were made to feel supremely unwelcome in our novus ordo parishes.  Parents can't be faulted for wanting the best for their children and trying to protect them from the evil that surrounds them.  It's everywhere today.

    Show me one place where true charity exist.  We have already been told that in the last days charity would grow cold in the hearts of men.


    Offline Dulcamara

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    « Reply #18 on: June 10, 2010, 11:43:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    That's harsh, Dulc.

    By and large, I don't think many go there to "run away" from anything. I'd say most go to large Trad areas for the school. Raising a Catholic family is hard. Toss in homeschooling and it might just be more than most can handle. So, what do you do? You make a choice. Send your children to a local school or move to where there is a Trad school. What would you do?


    But moving to such a place for reasons of necessity is different than moving there because one thinks it's going to secure them in their Catholicism. I was only speaking of people who have no logical, rational reason to move to a far away place, but who do it because they have unrealistic ideas about how it's going to be, or what impact it'll have on their faith. Eg, if there's a trad Catholic school much, much closer, but they want to go to only the biggest Catholic place they can find. As though somehow that's better.

    The topic has come up in my own house a few times, and it's never even "oh, lets move to somewhere where there's an SSPX chapel!" It's "lets move to St. Mary's". As though all of the other, smaller Traditional Catholic communities aren't worth a hill of beans, but this one, Catholic "oasis" ... oh! Well, THAT'S different! Everything would be PERFECT there!

    Yeah, except the million little things that are not perfect, because people, Catholic or not, are still human beings.

    And think of it this way... Those other, smaller chapels/places actually NEED the support of families moving in from other places so that they can afford to be there. Some of the schools at those smaller places need that in order to survive. Why is it that people irrationally want to migrate to the largest, already fully established place, rather than support another such place growing up somewhere else?

    I was only speaking only of those who make those kinds of pointless, irrational decisions, as though it really will make them and all of their kids automatic saints, if they just move to the biggest and best Catholic watering hole out there.

    Of course, when you're a parent, you have to go wherever your kids are going to get the best shot. But still, the parents need to realize that the schools are having problems, too. LOTS of parents are getting the same idea at once, and that means LOTS of kids who used to go to public schools are also going to be there. Parents may get there and breathe a sigh of relief, thinking as long as there are traditional Catholic teachers involved, their children's faith is secure... but that also seems to be one of the biggest problems facing the trad Catholic schools right now... all these parents just plopping their kids into the trad schools, and then washing their hands of them, so to speak, as though it's a done deal.

    Of course, parents do the best they can. Necessity plays a part in that, as you say. But my dismay was aimed more at those who don't have to move quite as far as they plan to, simply because they think it's some kind of insurance for their faith, or some kind of Catholic cure-all for them and their children. The fight is inside of each one of us. If we're not willing to fight outside of one of those big Catholic centers, then when we get there, we'll be just as mediocre Catholics as we were anywhere else. Our external performance may pick up a little, but for the Catholic who just doesn't want to fight anymore, that can easily become an excuse to go home and say, "ok, I've fulfilled my Catholic quota for the day..." and switch over to worldly mode, living like everybody else does in the rest of their time.

    It's things like that that worry me about the whole "lets move THERE" thing. But if families were determined to do it, the least they could do is support the places that are struggling. Isn't the goal for the whole world to be Catholic? We're not helping it if we all keep moving to the same, already established places. At least they could be zealous and try to move in and support smaller places, so that those could become larger and succeed.

    I certainly didn't mean to say anything bad about those parents who find their hand forced, and make a decision to put their kids into the trad Catholic schools. If you're forced, you're forced. But those who have a choice WHICH ONE... might do well to look to smaller ones that really need the help, so that those options will continue to be there for other Catholics. If these places are taking donations, that means there aren't enough Catholics sending their kids to those smaller places, helping them become self-sufficient. That's pretty worrisome for the future of Catholics in those areas who also don't have the choice to home school. So why do people continue to move all the way across the country to some "mega-center" ... instead of supporting something a lot more local so people don't have to leave their whole lives behind just to get a Catholic education?

    It's a bad trend. Every part of the country (and the world) needs to have it's own "Catholic heart". Every state... heck, every CITY... should have something of it's own. Instead we're rushing to one or two places, leaving everyone and everything we know behind, and letting everything else rot. I just can't see the wisdom in that. Are we all praying for an 845th mass in St. Mary's? Or would it be better if every state got another traditional Catholic church? If people think those places are the answer, good... then lets make a lot more of them in other places where there aren't any!

    We're not tomato plants. We're human beings. There's just something a bit wacky about tearing up our roots and plopping down somewhere else after generations of family have lived in the same place. And it certainly isn't going to fix anything.
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi

    Offline Dulcamara

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    « Reply #19 on: June 10, 2010, 11:47:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    This girl is right, it's not like this in France -- although from what I have seen they dress like hobos at the French SSPX.  



    Nothing wrong with being, and therefore dressing, poor.
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi


    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #20 on: June 10, 2010, 11:54:15 AM »
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  • Quote
    All three?
     

    Not so much the host, though he seemed to instigate through weakness or at least confusion.  The gentleman who new Emma from school seemed to be nothing more than a sychophant flatterer who was infatuated with this poor girl.  Emma herself had and has a very serious problem with vanity and self-love, which ultimately led to her apostasy while horribly laying blame at the feet of "uncharitable" sisters.

    The stench from Emma's over-inflated sense of self-importance was overwhelming.  The story just got progressively worse.  She (and the two gentlemen) apparently have confused discipline with lack of charity.  The sting of mortification was just too much for Emma's pride to take.  Nature abhors mortification, she clung to her affections with tenacity, eventually falling into dissimulation while condescending everyone else around her.  

    She proved the case even more when she admitted that all the girls are Catholic today, except her.  In her warped mind, she expected everyone else to have suffered the same injury to the ego as an excuse for self-indulgence and ultimately the denial of truth.

    So what would have happened if she had attended a school with a lax environment that let her indulge in her passions of self-love?  She would have done what she had liked and still apostasized, because her heart was corrupted anyways.  They don't mean to say that the sisters were uncharitable, what they really meant to say was that the sisters lacked that false charity which they so cherish.    

    Then to top it off, the sychophant flatterer at the end held poor Emma up as a martyr for self-indulgence, implying that the sisters were to blame for her mortal sins against faith.  Now that is an offense against charity.    

    What are the sisters to do?  If they maintain order and discipline, they are accused of being uncharitable by worldlings, if they allow girls to self-indulge, they hand them over to Satan.  

    If Catholics wish to maintain peace and unity, I would highly advise them to stop turning to ad hominem and start turning to our Lord Jesus Christ Who is annoyed at the fact that we enjoy using the faults of our neighbor to imugn the veracity of his religion.  

    Elizabeth, there is a very big difference between the evil you suffered and Catholic nuns attempting to form the characters of these girls.  Don't fall into the trap of thinking that even slight mortification is "oppressive" to the spirit.  The opposite is actually true.

    As a side note, I think the fact that they didn't have uniforms is a breath of fresh air in the sense that they thought that people could dress modestly without being forced to institute a dress code.  The only reason why dress codes exist is to train very imperfect people.  They thought that they had progressed beyond this very imperfect mentality.  Now it is used against them by narcisstic worldlings.    

    Offline Dulcamara

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    « Reply #21 on: June 10, 2010, 12:09:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth


    The attrition rate for many of these trad academies is simply outrageous.  The teachers must take some responsibility for the great number of failures.


    But if the teachers are saints and teach like angels, and the kids came from public school or have embraced worldly pride and vanity, or if they go home and mom and dad are watching television and living like anyone else in the world, other than a few Catholic "externals" ... the results would be the same.

    I've heard a lot of lamentation from the trad schools about how parents expect them to work miracles for their children and their holiness and their attitudes and so forth, but basically there is NO involvement from the parents in the education, or rather the formation, of their children. Or they're getting bad examples. Or they're rotten before they come, and the parents expect the Catholic school to somehow miraculously defeat their free will to become staunch atheists if that's what they want to do.

    There's this little thing called free will. All of us have one, even the smallest children. And at some point in their lives, usually pretty early on, the kids know what direction they want to go in... to "have a fun life" like everyone else in the world, or to "live right and love God" like Catholics should. I would just love to know how many of us Catholics born in the last 30 years or less (or even 40 years, if you want to be liberal) did not at one point or another fall almost totally and completely into a wholly non-Catholic attitude and way of life. I'm betting there are very, very few, who were from their birth, very devout and very holy, and who stayed that way their whole lives.

    Most of us do our messing up from our childhood to our teen years, before we finally (Lord willing) get our heads screwed on straight, and start to realize that the glittering, seductive dream world that the world seems to offer, is really empty, depressing and internally (and eternally) devastating. That's because the pull is stronger than ever, and the pressure to go along with it is stronger than ever. "Born traditional Catholic" is not always the vaccine it should be against it, and even when it is, it all comes down to personal choice. Am I, or am I not going to live a Catholic life?

    The kids make these choices whether or not the parents know or like it. They make them young, and they generally stick to them for quite a while. In the case of choosing the world, sometimes until the whole poisonous affair blows up in their faces, and sometimes (sadly) for life. There is not a darn thing that the teachers or priests can do about that free will. The parents are the ones that had the best shot at guiding it, but by the time the teachers get the children, it's more likely than not already too late... that is, for better or worse, the kid's mind is made up. Either they think being holy is the way to go and their love of God is well founded and sincere, or else they think being holy is some bizarre form of ma$*(#ism, that all of us are idiots for being involved in it, and that they sure as heck have no intention of joining us.

    Blaming the teachers is easy, but God didn't give the children to the teachers. He gave them to the parents, and the responsibility will lie firstly and before all, WITH the parents, as to how those children were raised. Maybe it's their fault, and maybe it isn't (eg, maybe they didn't know about the other options and sent junior to public schools for six years). But either way, the cradle is in the home, not in the school. The parents, and the life the kids had (maliciously or not) because of them, came first. And that is what formed their personalities before the teachers came along. The teachers can do their best to show the kids what the truth is, and how they should live and love God... but they can't negate their free will, or the formation they've had at home or before that, no matter WHY they had the formation they did have.

    I speak from experience. Being a cradle Catholic still doesn't take away your free will, or shut out the world's allures, or turn off your unruly passions, or assure your holiness in any way. Neither does catechism classes on Sunday, or a sharp U-turn to home schooling halfway through the kid's education. Those things may give them a much better shot at saving their soul than not (and it does) ... but it doesn't change the things they've already been through/experienced, what kind of atmosphere they were born into, how their passions will pull at them to go the wrong way, or finally, the fact that sooner or later they are going to ultimately choose one way or the other. Meanwhile, kids choose every moment of every day to step toward one choice or the other, whether or not all of the adults in their lives like it or hate it. And sometimes BECAUSE they hate it.

    Traditional Catholic schools may be the best shot some parents can give their kids at turning their lives around, now or later. But it can't take away the fact that that child will have to choose for themselves, and that choice, no one can take from them.
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi

    Offline Alexandria

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    « Reply #22 on: June 10, 2010, 12:11:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    Quote
    All three?
     

    Not so much the host, though he seemed to instigate through weakness or at least confusion.  The gentleman who new Emma from school seemed to be nothing more than a sychophant flatterer who was infatuated with this poor girl.  Emma herself had and has a very serious problem with vanity and self-love, which ultimately led to her apostasy while horribly laying blame at the feet of "uncharitable" sisters.

    The stench from Emma's over-inflated sense of self-importance was overwhelming.  The story just got progressively worse.  She (and the two gentlemen) apparently have confused discipline with lack of charity.  The sting of mortification was just too much for Emma's pride to take.  Nature abhors mortification, she clung to her affections with tenacity, eventually falling into dissimulation while condescending everyone else around her.  

    She proved the case even more when she admitted that all the girls are Catholic today, except her.  In her warped mind, she expected everyone else to have suffered the same injury to the ego as an excuse for self-indulgence and ultimately the denial of truth.

    So what would have happened if she had attended a school with a lax environment that let her indulge in her passions of self-love?  She would have done what she had liked and still apostasized, because her heart was corrupted anyways.  They don't mean to say that the sisters were uncharitable, what they really meant to say was that the sisters lacked that false charity which they so cherish.    

    Then to top it off, the sychophant flatterer at the end held poor Emma up as a martyr for self-indulgence, implying that the sisters were to blame for her mortal sins against faith.  Now that is an offense against charity.    

    What are the sisters to do?  If they maintain order and discipline, they are accused of being uncharitable by worldlings, if they allow girls to self-indulge, they hand them over to Satan.  

    If Catholics wish to maintain peace and unity, I would highly advise them to stop turning to ad hominem and start turning to our Lord Jesus Christ Who is annoyed at the fact that we enjoy using the faults of our neighbor to imugn the veracity of his religion.  

    Elizabeth, there is a very big difference between the evil you suffered and Catholic nuns attempting to form the characters of these girls.  Don't fall into the trap of thinking that even slight mortification is "oppressive" to the spirit.  The opposite is actually true.

    As a side note, I think the fact that they didn't have uniforms is a breath of fresh air in the sense that they thought that people could dress modestly without being forced to institute a dress code.  The only reason why dress codes exist is to train very imperfect people.  They thought that they had progressed beyond this very imperfect mentality.  Now it is used against them by narcisstic worldlings.    



    Bravo, Caminus!   :applause:


    Offline Alexandria

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    « Reply #23 on: June 10, 2010, 12:32:24 PM »
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  • It's not always all the school's fault either.  Parents are often the problem.  I know well from my SSPX days of parents living worldly lives and expecting the schools to work miracles with their children.  

    Offline Alexandria

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    « Reply #24 on: June 10, 2010, 12:43:41 PM »
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  • To tell you the truth, the more I think about this, the angrier I get.  If I was the pastor at Immaculate Conception, I'd show the parishioner that ran these interviews the door.  All this does is stir up discontent in a parish that already has more than its share of troublemakers.  They don't need anymore.  And they don't need the children that are attending any of their schools to get their hands on this and start stirring up trouble.  You know how young people can be.

    I am wondering what his purpose is in holding these interviews.

    Oh my!  I really should start getting more sleep.  I'm actually sticking up for the SSPX.... :smirk:

    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #25 on: June 10, 2010, 01:06:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria
    To tell you the truth, the more I think about this, the angrier I get.  If I was the pastor at Immaculate Conception, I'd show the parishioner that ran these interviews the door.  All this does is stir up discontent in a parish that already has more than its share of troublemakers.  They don't need anymore.  And they don't need the children that are attending any of their schools to get their hands on this and start stirring up trouble.  You know how young people can be.

    I am wondering what his purpose is in holding these interviews.

    Oh my!  I really should start getting more sleep.  I'm actually sticking up for the SSPX.... :smirk:


    But it's not about groups per se, it's about transcendental things like truth, justice, charity, etc.  Those are the things that unite us together, not names of groups like SSPX.  And those things are impugned by small-minded, worldly trouble-makers who should think twice before speaking, especially on a public radio program for all to hear.  There are two very important biblical passages to always keep in mind.  The one from St. Paul where he admonishes the faithful to bear patiently with imperfections.  The other is directly from our Lord where He uses the analogy of the log and speck of dust in the eye.  

    Where imperfections go unchecked and become inordinate evil that destroys the Church as a ravenous wolf would, we can understand and observe with clarity.  Where simple imperfections abound more or less, we ought to simply admit that we too are part of the problem and advert attention to our own depraved interior and the mercy of God.

    Finally, there is an infinite distance between sins that lessen charity and intentional sins that extinguish charity in the soul altogether.  If any man wants to accuse his neighbor of the former in self-righteous indignation, he ought to look no further than himself.  If they use the term 'uncharitable' in the latter sense, the burden of proof is on them, lest they further aggravate their own depravity by adding sins of injustice.  

    I too am increasingly disgusted the more I remember this interview.    


    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #26 on: June 10, 2010, 02:09:29 PM »
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  • But the girl WAS a teacher!  Right out of High School, and then she joined the Marines.  

     I have lamented over and over the dying-off of the orders of nursing and teaching sisters.





    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #27 on: June 10, 2010, 02:49:14 PM »
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  • I have no regrets sending my childen to Mount St. Michael, the students they met there are their best friends now as adults, my grandchildren attend the Mount today, because my children now adults want to send them there.

    We made some sacrifices to get them there, boarded them for a few years till we could move to Spokane, and when my children graduated from the Mount, they stayed in the area, except for one who lives in Reno.  I have his children with me, here in Spokane so they could have a chance at learning their Faith.  The grandchildren that live with me, have a choice, since their mother in not against us, but not really with us either.  The kids choose on their own to come back every year.  They tried public school and hated it.  

    I think children should see that they are not alone, not the only ones in the entire world that are left as Traditional Catholics.  I also like to introduce them and when possible take them to as many traditional chapels/churches as I can find, so they can also see that it is not only Mount St. Michael with a Latin Mass, rules to live by, singing the same hymns and praying the same prayers.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #28 on: June 10, 2010, 03:07:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria


    Oh my!  I really should start getting more sleep.  I'm actually sticking up for the SSPX.... :smirk:

    That's OK by me.
     :alcohol:



    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #29 on: June 11, 2010, 12:58:20 AM »
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  • I see the original poster didn't take our comments to heart since he conducted yet another "expose" interview with two different women.  

    I would like to see him put down the microphone and start typing on his keyboard so that he can explain his actions.  If he thought well enough to publicize his efforts here, the least he could do is interact with other concerned Catholics of whom he apparently desired to listen to his broadcast.