Thanks, but I think I'll pass. I do agree that sports should not be played on Sunday, but just watching them is not a sin, much less a mortal sin. What makes you the authority to tell us what is and is not a mortal sin?

You are quiet wrong there. To find enjoyment in people committing mortal sin is likewise a mortal sin. Failure to denounce evil is to approve of evil. Failure in denouncing the mortal sin of gambling (cheerleaders, immodesty, etc.) is to approve of these things. You cannot denounce all evil things, you must go and shop even though they sell bad things. But you do not need to watch sinful sports.

Pope St. Felix III (5th Century): "Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it, and, indeed, to neglect to confound evil men - when we can do it - is no less a sin than to encourage them."

James 4:17 “To him therefore who knoweth to do good, and doth it not, to him it is sin.”

Pope Leo XIII, Inimica Vis, 1892: “An error which is not resisted is approved; a truth which is not defended is suppressed… He who does not oppose an evident crime is open to the suspicion of secret complicity.”


Pro-sports may seem to have no sin in it, but countless of mortal sins will be exposed when one examines it carefully:

First, almost every kind of pro-sports supports the mortal sin of gambling, and it is just a fact that these teams or players get a large portion of their pay-check from gambling. Pro-sports is in fact one of the biggest, if not the biggest generator of the mortal sin of gambling, which has destroyed countless of families and lead millions of poor souls to despair, ѕυιcιdє and hell. Thus, those who watch these games, watch people who are getting paid for supporting and making the mortal sin of gambling exist. To enjoy the eternal soul killing of other human beings is a clear cut mortal sin.


AND FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO ARGUE THAT GAMBLING IS NOT MORTALLY SINFUL, THINK AGAIN!


Council of Elvira (306), Canon 79: "Christians who play dice for money are to be excluded [excommunication] from receiving communion. If they amend their ways and cease, they may receive communion after one year."

"We read in the Canons of the apostles (Can. xli, xlii): "A bishop, priest or deacon who is given to drunkenness or gambling, or incites others thereto, must either cease or be deposed; a subdeacon, reader or precentor who does these things must either give them up or be excommunicated; the same applies to the laity[/u]."

Now such punishments are not inflicted save for mortal sins. Therefore drunkenness [and gambling] is a mortal sin. (St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica > Second Part of the Second Part > Question 150, Article 2. Whether drunkenness is a mortal sin?)

So now when you KNOW gambling is a mortal sin you have no excuse for doing so. Before you could be excused from mortal sin in regards to gambling, but not now you have been presented with Church teaching.

Second, almost every kind of pro-sport is played on Sundays which is a clear mortal sin since it is a work for these players and they get a pay-check from it. Therefore, they are breaking one of God’s Ten Commandments, and there is no excuse for such things. It is a clear mortal sin to enjoy someone committing mortal sin.

Third, as we can see from the Book of the Machabees, the Jєωιѕн people neglected the divine worship in order to attend to different sport festivities at the arena. This is now prophetically fulfilled in many people who call themselves Catholic. For instead of praying the Rosary, reading the word of God and playing with and educating their children in good Christian morals as the Sunday is intended for, they watch these sinful games while placing their children in front of another TV set, neglecting their spiritual well being. Many saints teach that sports in of itself is no sin - which it of course isn’t - but when it becomes too serious and more than a fun game between friends or when one take too much delight in it or makes too big thing of that which has no value, then they unanimously teach that it becomes sinful.


MORE ON GAMBLING

St. Francis de Sales
CHAPTER XXXII. Of Forbidden Amusements.

DICE, cards, and the like games of hazard, are not merely dangerous amusements, like dancing, but they are plainly bad and harmful, and therefore they are forbidden by the civil as by the ecclesiastical law. What harm is there in them? you ask. Such games are unreasonable:—the winner often has neither skill nor industry to boast of, which is contrary to reason. You reply that this is understood by those who play. But though that may prove that you are not wronging anybody, it does not prove that the game is in accordance with reason, as victory ought to be the reward of skill or labour, which it cannot be in mere games of chance. Moreover, though such games may be called a recreation, and are intended as such, they are practically an intense occupation. Is it not an occupation, when a man’s mind is kept on the stretch of close attention, and disturbed by endless anxieties, fears and agitations? Who exercises a more dismal, painful attention than the gambler? No one must speak or laugh,—if you do but cough you will annoy him and his companions. The only pleasure in gambling is to win, and this cannot be a satisfactory pleasure, since it can only be enjoyed at the expense of your antagonist. Once, when he was very ill, S. Louis heard that his brother the Comte d’Anjou and Messire Gautier de Nemours were gambling, and in spite of his weakness the King tottered into the room where they were, and threw dice and money and everything out of the window, in great indignation. And the pure and pious Sara, in her appeal to God, declared that she had never had dealings with gamblers. "I beg, O Lord, that thou loose me from the bond of this reproach, or else take me away from the earth.Thou knowest, O Lord, that I never coveted a husband, and have kept my soul clean from all lust. [17] Never have I joined myself with them that play: neither have I made myself partaker with them that walk in lightness." (Book of Tobias, 3:15-17)

Quote from: Hietanen

Quote from: Jehanne

Going out to eat is not "working," at least for those who are doing the eating.  And, you agree, apparently, that those who are doing the cooking and serving are not sinning, either, since they are so poor to begin with (they would not be working those jobs if that was not the case) that they, by necessity, can work on Sundays.  So, I guess, what's the point of discussing this any further?

That was a ridiculous response. Just because a person work in a restaurant does not imply that he is poor or that he actually have to be working on a Sunday. Stop making presumptions.

It's a statistical relationship.  Middle to Upper class people are not the ones working on Sundays, unless they are doctors, sometimes lawyers.  It is the poor, typically, who are forced to work nights and weekends.

Eating out on Sundays is, in a sense, "giving to the poor."  You are giving them a honest day's work.

Jehanne. You don't seem to fear God very much. You seem to have no problem at all disregarding His commandments to please men.

People where more poor before the industrial revolution, before the 1900 hundreds. They managed to survive back then without working on Sundays. In fact, in the fully Catholic countries, before Vatican II, no unnecessary work was allowed on Sundays. And in the few instances where people broke the sabbath, protests broke out that forced the violators to comply.

You must realize that irrelevance for God's laws and precepts hasn't always been as common as it is today. Before, people actually cared about religion and about God (which sadly cannot be said today among many people).

Well, what more needs to be said then that we live in the last days? The last days would be the worst of them all. Yet, do every single person who call himself Catholic today, believe himself to be faithful or devout. Many people even think this about themselves even after one have proved to them on many points how they in fact break God's laws and precepts deliberately, and even after one have proved it to them, they still don't care or give it much thought. Irrelevance, mortal sin, love of men and love of pleasure and the world, is what damns almost everyone today.


I believe this revelation explains very well how many people today act before God.


The words of praise of the Mother and the Son to each other in the presence of the bride, and about how Christ is now regarded as shameful, dishonest, and despicable by people, and about the horrifying and eternal damnation of these people.

Book 1 - Chapter 46
The Revelations of St. Bridget

The Queen of Heaven spoke to her Son and said: “Blessed be you my God, who are without beginning and without end. You had the most noble and beautiful body. You were the most brave and virtuous man. You are the most worthy creature.”

The Son answered: “The words proceeding from your mouth are sweet to me and delight my inmost heart like the sweetest drink. You are more sweet to me than any other creature in existence. For just as different faces can be seen in a mirror by a person but none pleases him more than his own, so too, even though I love my saints, I love you with a special love, because I was born from your blessed flesh. You are like myrrh whose fragrance ascended up to the Divinity and led the Divinity to your body. This same fragrance drew your body and soul up to God, where you now are with soul and body. Blessed be you, for the angels rejoice in your beauty and all are saved by your virtue and power when they call on you with a sincere heart. All the demons tremble in your light and do not dare to stay in your splendor, for they always want to be in darkness.

You gave praise to me for a threefold reason, for you said that I had the most noble body; second, that I was the most brave man; and third, you said that I was the most worthy creature. These three things are only contradicted by those who have a body and soul, that is, human beings. They say that I have a shameful body and that I am the most despicable man and the lowliest of creatures. For what is more shameful than to tempt others to sin? For they claim that my body tempts to sin when they say that sin is not as abominable or displeasing to God as much as is said. They say that nothing exists unless God wants it to be so and that nothing is created but by him. ‘Why should we not use the created things to our benefit? Our natural frailty demands it and this is how everyone has lived before us and still do live.’ This is how people now speak about me and my Manhood, in which I, the true God, appeared among men. For I advised them to abstain from sinning and showed what a serious and grave matter it is, and this they say was shameful, as if I had advised them to do something useless and shameful. They say that nothing is honorable but sin and that which pleases their will.

They also say that I am the most shameful man. For what is more shameful than someone who, when he speaks the truth, gets his mouth beaten with stones and gets hit in the face and, on top of that, hears people insulting him, saying: ‘If he were a man, he would revenge himself over such an injustice.’ This is what they do to me. I speak to them through the learned fathers and Holy Scripture, but they say that I lie. They beat my mouth with stones and their fists when they commit adultery, murder, and lying, saying: ‘If he were manly, if he were the almighty God, he would revenge himself for such sins and transgressions.’ But I endure this with patience, and everyday I hear them saying that the torment is neither eternal nor as severe and bitter as it is said, and my words are judged and said to be lies.

Third, they judge me to be the most ugly and worthless creature. For what is more worthless in the house than a dog or a cat that someone would be glad to exchange for a horse, if he could? But mankind holds me to be of less worth than a dog, for he would not wish to take me if it meant that he would lose the dog, and he would reject and deny me before losing the dog’s hide. What is the thing that pleases the mind so little that one does not think of it and desires it more fervently than me? For if they regarded me more worthy than any other created creature, they would love me more than other things. But now they have nothing so small that they do not love it more than me. They grieve over everything but me. They grieve for their own and their friends’ losses. They grieve for an injurious word. They grieve over offending or hurting people more highly placed and powerful than they, but they do not grieve about offending or hurting me, who am the Creator of all things. What man is so despicable that he is not listened to if he begs about something and is not given a gift in return if he has given something? But I am utterly vile and despicable in their eyes, for they do not consider me worthy of any good, even though I have given them all good things.

But you, my most dear Mother, have tasted more of my wisdom than others, and never has anything but the truth ever left your mouth, just as nothing but the truth has ever left my own mouth. I will now justify myself in the sight of all the saints. First, against him, who said that I had a shameful body. I shall prove that I indeed have the most noble body without deformity or sin, and he shall fall into eternal shame and reproach which all will see. To the one who said that my words were a lie and that he did not know if I was God or not, I shall prove that I truly am God, and he will flow down like mud to hell. But the third, who regarded me as useless, I shall judge to eternal damnation so that he will never see my glory and my joy.”

Thereafter he said to his bride: “Stand firm in my service. You have come to a wall, as it were, in which you are enclosed, so that you cannot flee nor dig through its foundations. Endure this small tribulation willingly, and you will experience eternal rest in my arms. You know the will of the Father, you hear the words of the Son, you feel my Spirit, and you have delight and consolation in the conversation with my Mother and my saints. Therefore, stand firm, or else you will come to feel my justice by which you will be forced to do what I am now kindly urging you to do.”

http://www.catholic-saints.net/saints/st-bridget/st-bridget-of-sweden.php

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Hietanen

Quote from: Jehanne

Going out to eat is not "working," at least for those who are doing the eating.  And, you agree, apparently, that those who are doing the cooking and serving are not sinning, either, since they are so poor to begin with (they would not be working those jobs if that was not the case) that they, by necessity, can work on Sundays.  So, I guess, what's the point of discussing this any further?

That was a ridiculous response. Just because a person work in a restaurant does not imply that he is poor or that he actually have to be working on a Sunday. Stop making presumptions.

It's a statistical relationship.  Middle to Upper class people are not the ones working on Sundays, unless they are doctors, sometimes lawyers.  It is the poor, typically, who are forced to work nights and weekends.

Eating out on Sundays is, in a sense, "giving to the poor."  You are giving them a honest day's work.

Jehanne. You don't seem to fear God very much. You seem to have no problem at all disregarding His commandments to please men.

People where more poor before the industrial revolution, before the 1900 hundreds. They managed to survive back then without working on Sundays. In fact, in the fully Catholic countries, before Vatican II, no unnecessary work was allowed on Sundays. And in the few instances where people broke the sabbath, protests broke out that forced the violators to comply.

So, because there were poor people living a century ago, albeit in countries which had Sabbath laws (which I agree with 100%, but let's face it, those are gone now), poor people who are living now ought to be even poorer by not working on Sundays, as long as they are above the "standard of living" that existed among the poor a century ago??

Tell that to DHS.  Yes, they can and will come and take your kids if you are not taking care of them, and no, social programs do not provide enough income for you to do that effectively.  So, yes, some good Catholic people do have to work on Sundays to provide their children with a decent life.  Sometimes this is necessary so that others can watch them, because these people cannot afford to pay for childcare during the week, so for them, weekend work may be the only option.

It is simply not possible to live in the abject poverty that you are speaking of, especially with children.  And, welfare as we once knew it, is gone, so people have to make choices if only to keep their kids and not have them end-up in foster care with Protestant heretics or Mormon infidels.

Now, what would you say to that?!

Where you would say "absolute necessity," I would say "necessity."  What could be "necessary" today could become "absolutely necessary" tomorrow.  In today's world and economy, one has an absolute necessity of being proactive.

Hietanen, I still dis-agree with you. First of all, it's not your place to judge whether or not a person is in mortal sin. How do you know sports athletes are in mortal sin? What about college football players who don't play on Sunday, are they in mortal sin just for playing? You also do not know that sports athletes always gamble. I would think it would be just the opposite. Why gamble when you already have millions of dollars? Furthermore, it is not a mortal sin to watch sports either because we don't know for certain if these people are in mortal sin. If I turn it to baseball on a week night I'm sinning just for watching people play? You're obviously the same person who made that post about professional sports a while back.

Gambling is always a mortal sin?  Really?

I was invited to go to a restaurant today after Mass at CMRI.  I don't go out to eat on Sunday because it keeps people working for unnecessary reasons ( I'll get gas, since gas stations need to be open on Sunday for many legitimate reasons ).  

One friend of mine, who is eighty, told me that in the 40's and 50's, towns were absolutely dead on Sunday.  That was all I needed to hear, since then I haven't gone out to eat on that day.

Result:  I was told I have scruples, that all the priests go to restaurants on Sundays.  It is true that I seem to be the only one there who has this rule.

Do you go to restaurants on Sundays?  Discuss.

I was told it was ok for Catholics to work at places of recreation on Sunday because it allows other Catholics to recreate. Restaurants and places of leisure like parks would be ok. So go and order lunch and socialize.

The rule was meant so that you're not out doing manual labor or becoming a workaholic and working Sundays to make even more profit or treating the day like any other work day.

Let me address a few things here, Hietanen.

1.- I agree that commericals on television are getting worse these days, but since you're going to play the "anything that has any kind of sin is a mortal sin to own or do" game, let's focus the spotlight on something else, the internet. In a way, the internet is worse than tv. On tv, you don't have full controll of everything that happens, you could be watching something harmless like the weather and then a bad commercial could come up suddenly. But with the computer, you're in full controll of what comes up, 99% of the time. Plus, nearly every kind of sin imaginable is on the internet. Stealing, blasphemy, porn, adultery, etc. So why are you so quick to condemn sports, tv, and eating at restaurants on Sunday but don't say a thing about the internet? I'm not saying we shouldn't have a computer, but I'm surprised you don't condemn something that can be even worse than television.

2.- You do not know that sports athletes "approve" bad cheerleaders, bad commercials, gambling, etc. Maybe there are sports athletes who dislike these things and have spoken up but their team does not care about the trashy cheerleaders or whatever. Yes I agree that sports should not be played on Sunday, but it is not a mortal sin to watch sports. And what about the sports players who donate most of their money to Christian charities?

3.- You don't have any authority to tell people on these forums that you don't even know personally that they are in mortal sin just for eating out on Sunday or watching sports. And as I said, there are some things (such as the internet) we own that we practically have to own that can lead to sin. Heck, owning cars can lead to sin, but we need them to drive, don't we?